I'm sorry to say crafters...

Svina said:
That's the　other alternative I tell people... but usually I can do better and actually offer to buy them their NQ ring as a result of the HQ... meaning, you just got a free sniper ring (in other words, I pay for hte value of the ring, and then give them a sniper in addition to that, so all in all you're actually doubling the value of your drop)
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Okay.. ive been silent on this issue at most. But this is where it aggitates me a bit. Svina I already talked with you once when I thought about having you craft me a ring. What you dont seem to realize is saying that "you just got a free sniper ring" is really BS.. if we got an archer's ring, thats a sniper's ring right there.. So unless your just handing over a sniper ring while I keep my archer's ring then there is no "free" rings being handed out.

To say "oh I made a +1 out of the ring and materials you gave me.. hrm, here take this NQ its free" is really stupid, as nice as it comes off sounding. To have an archer's ring is to have a NQ sniper's ring, plain and simple. What I did was simply sell it to you for 500k (before the prices all went up) so I was able to go and buy a sniper's ring for 470k and not lose any money, but infact make 30k out of it.

With the AH as it is I see no point in putting an archer's ring vs. selling it straight to the crafter. Though now with prices as they are im more inclined to just trade you an archer's ring for a sniper's ring (signed ofcourse).

The only thing that ticks me off is how you word it that if someone wants you to craft a snipers ring that if you get a +1, you give them a NQ snipers's for free. If you make a +1 you better be giving them atleast a NQ Sniper's ring, and if you dont have one to give, you had better give them that +1 as it was made from their ring & materials. There is no free, thats just a word your throwing around to butter up the deal to make the other person feel not so bad that you aren't giving them the +1.
 
>.>

I understand why you say it's free.. its already noted in my above post.

It still pisses me off nonetheless because it's utter BS. You know it. Why use a word that means something when you don't mean it at all.

That is not to say I don't enjoy your buisness. Though the way you worded would be considered.. false advertising. If you saying something is free, than free is what one would expect. If not, reword so that no one can possibly say otherwise.
 
Well what's really going on is this.

You have Archer Ring (500k lets say just to make an easily readable number).

You hand over the archer ring. You now have nothing.

I craft a Sniper Ring+1.

I now give you 500k and an NQ Sniper Ring, and keep the HQ for myself.

Did I word that all possibly wrong?
 
Sometimes an edit button would be nice.

Just adding.

Free = Without charge. Not subject to a given condition. Costing nothing; gratuitous.

When someone has already given you a valuable item and expects either 1 of 3 possible outcomes. They are the ones taking the risk in doing so. They could A) completely lose the Archer's Ring and all other materials they gathered B) Get a NQ and be quite happy with that or C) get a HQ and be plesantly surprised.

In all cases the crafter loses nothing, but less than a minutes worth of time. Though in both B and C senario's the crafter may not have gain anything in a monetary unit, but he/she has gained the gratitude of the person they helped. Why can't this be enough? Unfortunately the answer is Greed.
 
? That isnt how you explained it to me. You said if I got a +1 out of a synth all you'd give me is a Sniper's Ring. If indeed you are also giving them 500k in gil plus a sniper's then that is indeed not a bad deal.
 
Doesn't change the fact that everyone is greedy. I have had better experiences with gilsellers than actual crafters. The week before they banned a number of people, I went and yelled at the guy that camps Mee Deggi in Castle Oztroja. His name is lost on me at the moment, but I stopped by and yelled at him for pricing an Ochiudo's Kote at 800k, which I bought. He apologized, yes apologized, and I just stood their like, "wtf?." Thinking to myself, they apologize? Yea well, he apologized and handed me 200k.

Lemme think, last time I saw a crafter do anything that nice was when I asked a friend of mine to craft something for me? That was a friend, I'm never expecting a stranger to be that nice. This game is built around helping people out. I understand that you all took alot of time to level your craft, but does that somehow make my time worthless? Fuck you. I got the materials at my own expense, be it time or money. Just craft my fucking item and take the money I give you. Don't be an ass and charge more money or hand me a NQ and say, "tough luck, it's mine now." Bullshit. Be a decent fucking human being and just help me out, stop being so greedy. One of the many reasons they need to institute PvP, so I can just take my item back.
 
Ecks said:
Why can't this be enough? Unfortunately the answer is Greed.
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So it's not greedy for this random person to buy an archer ring, go to a crafter to make it into (hopefully) their HQ for free since they are too lazy to just farm the money to buy that HQ themselves? I'm sorry I don't see how that's not greedy in itself. On the other hand they can always just level that craft up and make their own, too. Either way you look at it someone is hoping to get free money out of the transaction. This person decides that just because I speak english they can bypass the AH in which I'm relying on to move my products by using me? I'm sorry I buy these materials to sell on the AH to whoever will pay for them, which is usually cheaper than the material cost. And then some, if you add in tax. I make no profit on NQs. And HQs are pleasantly rare pops. I don't want someone buying those materials and demanding I make them something when I have plenty of the product they want on the AH.

Or no, they'll just sell what I make and keep coming to me until they get their +1.

I'm sorry, again, I'm asking who is the greedy one in this case?
 
the crafter is loosing if an hq occurs, because that is one of 10? 20? 30? synths where the result HQ. Meaning they can pretty much expect to synth that many more times to synth another HQ and have a profit.
 
The crafter isn't losing anything, they didn't invest anything. I gave them items. They lose my items, they don't pay me, do they? How about I charge crafters for items they lose and the time it took me to get it?

On a side note, I am just defending those of us who ask crafters to craft something for us so we can wear it. Anyone who sells it back to AH can go screw themselves.
 
Like Meeze said. I can expect maybe 1 HQ in 20-30 synths, and that's with extreme luck. It takes me about a week nowadays to get even as many as 15 rings, due to the slow supply since the gilsellers have left. I dont' wanna see that lousy once a week profit lost, so I tell people beforehand how I do it. They either a) accept the conditions and agree to do it, or b) tell me to fuck myself and leave.

I'm not distressed by either case, honestly.
 
Well that is greed. I meant to add the difference. And its quite unfortunate you can't always tell who is greedy and who is not.

Someone who goes and buys a ring, or hell, even camps for a ring and then asks a crafter to do what I mentioned above, gets a +1 and then turns around and sells it. That's greed, yes. I would be angry and upset at those people too. They're using you obviously.

But what about the people that need the rings for usage. I can tell you right now i dont ever plan on selling my Sniper's ring unless I come across the gil to buy a Sniper's +1 to replace it. Since apparently it doesnt matter if your an honest player or not.

I wouldn't ever rip off a crafter like that, the demeaning reputation and hatred from other players that it would bring would not be worth the (overall) minor amount of gil one would earn.
 
Well you don't really NEED these +1s... they are just status items. I don't see why you need it. They're exorbitantly priced because of their rarity and the fact that they do actually give a miniscule advantage of stat boosting over the NQ. But honestly, if you don't have that kind of money, just forget it, or farm it if you really really want it. To someone with the money to afford these items, only ending up having to pay half the profit value in the end if they provide the materials and they are more than thankful.
 
Golen said:
The crafter isn't losing anything, they didn't invest anything. I gave them items. They lose my items, they don't pay me, do they? How about I charge crafters for items they lose and the time it took me to get it?

On a side note, I am just defending those of us who ask crafters to craft something for us so we can wear it. Anyone who sells it back to AH can go screw themselves.
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you are missing the point. the crafter does NOT need your materials.
you NEED his ability.
therefore you have no levearage to bargain.

the offer on the ring as i understand it it
no hq you have a sniper
hq you pay 2 mil which brings your total investment to 2.5 mil.
or you he will pay 500k for your archer and give you a sniper

now in the first hq scenario your profit is 1 mil which is about 30% of your investment. find that anywhere in the real world and you will become a very rich person.

in the second scenario your profit is 500k which is 100% of what u initially invested. you are doubling up on someone elses work. i dont see where it is that you lose.
 
Okay.. um Have you ever been an Elvaan Dark Knight Svina? No? Didn't think so. Does the word WHIFF mean anything to you? It sure does to me, and I like not to WHIFF as little as possible. Perferably not at all, but im sure even with Sniper's +1 and all the Acc gear I can get my hands on won't stop me from missed hit every so often. Though what having a higher acc does do is help me to avoid those quite frequent missed hits that so often plauge Dark Knight's.

Ever since I got my first Sniper's Ring it's already been quite noticable how I hit a lot more often. Even in some parties I'm able to keep up or surpass the thf/nin. Though i still miss often sometimes when fighting IT+'s.

The 2 extra points of accuracy might not mean a whole lot to you, but it does help every so slightly, combine that with another sniper's +1 and you've got 4 more points of accuracy than someone with just regular snipers. Believe me, that much might not seem like much, but it's extremely noticable in combat.

Why would I want the +1's? Well aside from the above paragraph. They're endgame worthy.. I wouldn't need any other rings for exp parties. That's 18 more levels and a loong time coming. Is it wrong that I would want to be prepared and ready for it in atleast two slots of eq? I dont think so, it would only help me be an even better Dark Knight that I already am, not to toot my own horn or anything..
 
Got two words for ya then Ecks. Start farming. Or take up a craft.
 
I do farm TYVM, but counting on the generosity of other's is something I look foward to. Not abuse. When someone does something nice for me, you can bet I'd gladly help that person with something they need helpwith if it's within my ability to do so.

I'd like to think any good player does this, and that not everyone is an asshole. I've been fortunate enough to meet and play with players who confirm my faith in them, while I've also met those who are trash and diserve no respect or trust from anyone let alone myself.
 
It's not abuse at all. How many times I gotta say I'm not obligated to synth things for other people? Cause I'm not. I'll do generous things for close friends, but otherwise if I really don't know you don't expect me to put out for you for nothing =\

I'm not trying to be an asshole here, this is how I run my business.
 
i'm a galka drk 63 with reg snipes, reg hauby, everything else is the best of its kind, and i out tp'd a thf mnk and war yesterday and today in pt's. so +1's are not a necessity, but when i get mine i'm gonna be so
8)

it really is a status symbol, even thought the +4 acc is great from having 2, at the price they go for its pretty dumb to think they are worth what they are.
 
Gonna skip the last three pages because it's probably the same babble we've all been throwing at eachother afterall -

Svina - Respectively, no, we can't trust some random person. But then again, we're ALL random people. There's no proof that says you, I, or some other person who tries to craft something won't just take the materials given and split or some crap..

Tiya - 54 Clothcraft. I've profitted over 400k so far. I can probably get my skill up to mids 60's and still have an overall profit, then do Black Choco fletchings til 73 and profit even more.

And here's an idea - try not to do any direct flames, k? I've so far simply stated my opinion on the subject. No, I don't know how much 73-100 may cost, I may soon find out...but I'm more than sure that there's some path, nomatter how slow, that probably doesn't wind out costing me millions upon millions in losses. Again, a disclaimer - don't start direct flames or it just shows that you have nothing better to say other than little insults.
 
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