Immigrant group offended by Halloween costume

[Cort]

. And who do you suppose gets these financial drains passed onto them?

A better way would be to get rid of the wealth-spreading progressive BS.

For those who say things like "White Americans owe us because _______": I am a white American. I am an immigrant from Canada, and became a citizen in 2001. My grandparents came to North America from Ireland in 1947. I pay taxes, and I have health insurance. Tell me, what do I owe you again???

Once again, progressive ideals of the early 20th century have led to a false belief of entitlement and so called "social justice".

As for the Queen:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7765206.stm
http://www.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idUSTRE4B34BC20081204

Apparently Canada has a ton of figureheads in their government, makes it seem like the Queen has power to an outsider.

I will man up and yield that issue.

 

[Sneakypants]

All I have to say is, it makes them look bad? Funny thing is they hardly ever make themselves look good amirite =)

Interesting logic on the part of the government, considering saying, "Yes" makes them look even worse. I fail to see the genius. All I see is fail. The hole is getting bigger.

 

[Morcheeba]

Interesting logic on the part of the government, considering saying, "Yes" makes them look even worse. I fail to see the genius. All I see is fail. The hole is getting bigger.

Pfft logic smogic, what the hell is logic and how does one apply it??!?!

Ohh right, putting on one's thinking cap, taking a look at possible effects and acting proactively. Wait, PFFT that's even more ludicrous!!

I'm on the same page with you there. I think it's safe to say both yours and ours makes themselves look pretty jackassy (for lack of a more goofy word) at times.

It would make sense to say no upfront. Have that kind of policy in place to avoid future disasters. But wait, there's no lasting problems from this is there?

Okay I'll drop the smartass comments. Honestly though, business in general is not conducted this way so why would our Governments stick to their so-called guns or at least pretend they have guns they're willing to use.

 

[Raesvelg]

Between the idiocy, hypocrisy, and rampant derailment of this thread, I almost forgot what it was about...

Oh right, people being overly sensitive douchebags.

Then again, I guess that's what this thread turned into anyway, so maybe it doesn't really count as a derailment.

 

[Airou]

This topic has nothing to do with why illegal immigrants should or shouldnt be here, or if they should or shouldnt be given citizenship. Back to the topic:

One thing thats really wrong with this country is the following:

White guy uses "Black Face" = Racist
Illegal Alien Costume = Racist
Sports team using native american names = Racist
George Bush Costumes, Joe Dirt Hillibilly Costumes = Hilarious and OK

Im hispanic, but ^ is one of the more idiotic things about the social aspects of this country. They're ALL funny, the idea that its okay to rag on white people but they cant rag on other ethnicities due to the fear of being looked at as racist? Its rediculous

 

[Firestreak]

The Queen, although just a figure head, only has constitutional powers over Canada. Canada has had sovereignty as an independent country since the Canada Act of 1982. But we're still pretty tight with the British, no argument there. She is afterall, on all our coins and the 20 dollar bill.

I like the USA. And I like Canada. As much as the two sides might not want to admit it, we're all pretty interdependent over here on the North American Continent and hopefully we can all agree to that.

I say, bring the illegal immigrants to Canada. We actually have more space than people (at least thats what I remember from geography, maybe it has changed). We have a shit ton of space for people, especially in the Northwest Territories and the Yukon.

Edit:

I just wanted to add something about the illegal immigrants clogging up the school system, etc post.

Seeing as we're a little bit harder to illegally enter, most of our immigrants are legal. However, they also clog up our schools with their English As Second Language crap. We have tons of schools in major cities dealing with this problem. It's not a matter of whether an immigrant is illegal or not. Of course, Canada approaches things completely different. We bend our backs for immigrants. We have a lot of older generations coming over and they can't speak a lick of English, but they refuse to learn it, and our country CATERS to it. We have a ton of signs that are not only in English and French, the two official languages, but Chinese characters. People get hired if they can speak English, French and Punjab. Ask anyone who lives in the GTA (Hit..Cheebs.. Been to the zoo lately? lol)

I don't think immigration is a bad thing, and you're going to get this sort of thing no matter what. It just sucks that Canada would rather accomate new Canadians instead of having them learn the official languages. I agree with what Firestreak said - if you choose to leave your home country for a new one, you better lean the language, laws, etc. If yout home nation was so bad, then why would you want to hold onto it so badly? A new life is a new life, ya dig?

I suppose legal immigration and illegal immigration have a lot of the same associated problems. I'd say at least the legal immigrants are going to be paying some taxes into the system which, even if it's just pocket change, means something to me.

I'll also say on the flip side, to me it's not personal at all. I've known and still know illegal immigrants. I went to school with one and helped him move. He was a great guy. In fact I'd say on average, I find them easier to get along with than most people who are just too fucking wrapped up with themselves.

The language thing, to clarify... well, I have to say. I can't learn any foreign language and I've tried pretty hard. So I can sympathize. The language thing is going to keep the immigrants together though since they need people they can communicate with. It's the latinos today, but it was the same with every other race of people that settled here since this country was formed. The kids born here or young enough to learn English fluently get ahead in life. The others don't. It's not a racist thing, it's just reality. We should not really be focusing so hard on these English as a 2nd language people because of it. Their priority should be learning English, and on that vein, they should not be attending regular classes.

It's a pointless waste of time for them,(for some classes, not others) and it's going to slow down the other students. They'd be much better off in intensive English classes designed for immigrants than in a class discussing a book they're unable to read. They'll come out of school better for it.

On how I feel about them being in this country in the first place. It changes a lot. If I think about what's best for America economically, it's not great the illegals are here. Of course I can also consider the fact we're all just human beings. Some of us happened to be born in the US, some in Canada, some in Japan and some in Brazil. Trying to analyze it morally almost emphasizes to me the logical flaws in morality itself I've become aware of more and more recently.

Things just are. What's right and wrong is irrelevant.

Which ties back to the original point of this thread. Is it racist? Sure a little. Is that immoral? Does morality even exist?

People just do what they want. We usually don't murder each other because we usually don't WANT to murder each other. What we perceive as immoral is simply people with different wants than ourselves, with some logical rules sprinkled around to justify all of it in such a way that we can pretend the rules are consistant, though they're not under close examination.

So if we think the costume is racist, and that's immoral, than it's immoral. If we don't, than it's not. Having a general consensus that it's not moral doesn't make it a universal law.

The question is interesting.

The answer is mundane.

 

[Dejavu]

One of the wonderful things bureaucracy does for us.

 

[Tristam Green]

That's actually a very informative flowchart, Deja. Nicely done :thumbsup:

It's insane the amount of bullshit (average) people have to go through to become a US citizen now. I realize that *some* of it is necessary, because you don't want someone just...loafing about and leeching off the public services after they get in the country...oh wait.

 

[Keryan]

I liked the costume. Sorry if I do not make much sense. Been up with no sleep for a long time.

I know a good number of illegals....many get welfare, medical, free lunch/breakfast for kids, work manual labor. Things like building houses, painting, etc. I had to have my house renovated after a pipe broke. The things you learn about your home when you have to fix it. We hired a contractor who is a US citizen and english is his only language. We learned while he was fixing the house many bad things. Please keep in mind many illegals have the education of a 6th grader.

The company that built the houses had hired...you guessed it....under trained, unqualified, non english speaking people. Gave them a very basic understanding of what to do, then told them build it fast! This created track housing. So the kitchen Corner is more obtuse than a right angle. The lower 1/4 was actually rounded where they had to repatch. It was very intresting to watch the contractor I hired try to put a new counter in. FYI there were HOLES in the wall that they <original builders> just covered up with the old cabinets. The big I beam was not put in evenly. It infact looks like this \. It should be Horizontal. Yet because it is cemented it passed inspection. They put replacement windows in for normal ones because it is cheaper. This actually lets cold air INTO my house during the winter. Oh the wiring FRIED my microwave, and not all the outlet work right. When they put in the sliding door they did not seal it right, so it began to rot the base floor infront of the door. This is just a SMALL example of what we had to get fixed. I felt so sorry for my contractor. He had to go through and fix not only the damage from the broken pipe, but all the things the company that build the house created.

Yes many illegals are the nicest people you will meet. They kinda have to be since they know any problems could get them caught. The US faces illegals from two borders. Canada faces it from just one. In under 200 years there will be no seperation between the US, Canada and Mexico. Watch it be done in the nect 75 years even. Already there is talk of a global curency. Look at the EU. Nations who are of themselves, yet together. You will have something like that occur. It would have to just to give the nations any pull in a world economy.

The post about the Queen was intresting. IF I read it right makes it sound like no one can advise her to disollve parliment. Please remember that there are laws most people may not even remember that might suprise you. One I love is in one state the law still exists that when a woman drives a man must walk in front waving a flag to warn others. It was never repealed. Mind you no one waves a flag, but still the law is there, still binding if someone wanted to push it.

Canada has its share of lazy people living off the state. My brother-inlaw is a canadian native american. The government pays him and his family well. He does not have to work. The man did not work for the Nine years that I have known him for. He is currently in jail for drug use and rape from this last year. Both nations have idiots and morons who will use and abuse the system. Just to be clear, Canada like the US, STOLE and MURDERED Native americans, so they give these people money. IF I remember facts correctly, the people must live on a reservation. Anyway the governments pay these people every month. You should look up some of the things they write about. Talk about racial hate. Yet they love the hand outs. I use this as an example of what happens when people expect hand outs. Also it should show that yes Canada has done just as many vile and evil things as many other "civilized" nations. I have nothing against Canada. I have family there, but I do not think it fair to bash America when your shit stinks just as bad. I should also point out I am part Native American. So I am not bashing them. Facts are that when you give people things without them earning it, they do not value it.

I think Cort, you should look up the Mexican laws about immigration and illegal immigration. My father made me read up on this. It might explain why we have so many illegals. If we actually used some of their policies I bet we would have a much lower number of illegals. I also feel that the home nation should have to pay for every illegal we send back. They should be given the fees for catching and returning the people. This might encourge their home nations to police their borders. It would also allow us to put our tax dollars into something much more productive...you know like medical care or schooling.

On a more serious note, the maker of the costume should sue the group citing denial of their first amenendment rights as well as being offended that people are rasist and unfair to illegal ET's wanting to come to america. ET phoned home and was told he needed to send more cash!

 

[Morcheeba]

I'm on the fence really when it comes to Natives. They love the hand outs because they feel they're entitled to it. We took their land, we tricked them, we pillaged etc. So to this day yes there are a large majority of Natives that feel they are owed by the Canadian Government. Because ultimately if it were up to them, some feel they would not have done to this country/planet what we have. They still practise traditional upbringing/ways of life in general. Living off the land, that's not out of the ordinary. That being said, I do understand why most would feel they are entitled. How dare we take from them then demand they contribute to something that was stolen? I get it.

To take back something that was stolen from you is not stealing, or something like that.

They are forced to live on reservations (IF they want their land for free), and they are given so very little and limited by our Governent it almost forces a lot of them to live low quality lives. They can no longer prosper off their land the way they used to etc, the land they're given is limited in space, less space = less resources. If they decide to get a job they have to pay into something they don't believe in. Yet they are given so little from our Government to survive they feel they are backed into corners.

I think it's a bit stubborn but I do understand it.

 

[Acutie]

This topic has nothing to do with why illegal immigrants should or shouldnt be here, or if they should or shouldnt be given citizenship. Back to the topic:

One thing thats really wrong with this country is the following:

White guy uses "Black Face" = Racist
Illegal Alien Costume = Racist
Sports team using native american names = Racist
George Bush Costumes, Joe Dirt Hillibilly Costumes = Hilarious and OK

Im hispanic, but ^ is one of the more idiotic things about the social aspects of this country. They're ALL funny, the idea that its okay to rag on white people but they cant rag on other ethnicities due to the fear of being looked at as racist? Its rediculous

it's more for fear of being shot by a dangerous minority.

 

[Mirewen]

I'm on the fence really when it comes to Natives. They love the hand outs because they feel they're entitled to it. We took their land, we tricked them, we pillaged etc. So to this day yes there are a large majority of Natives that feel they are owed by the Canadian Government. Because ultimately if it were up to them, some feel they would not have done to this country/planet what we have.

I grew up in the Cowichan Valley, at the time about 60%-65% Native. Their EMPLOYMENT rate was 4% and they got welfare cheques, treaty cheques and got paid to go to highschool. Teachers were 'not allowed' to fail them even though they spent the majority of their time in the 'craft room', a room that only the Native students were allowed in, it had a Playstation, Nintendo, Sega (lol Sega) and a full kitchen supplied with free pop and snacks.

If the British did not come here and take the land, it would have been taken by someone else. At least the Canadian Government tries to make amends.

 

[Skaw]

[xImg]http://reason.com/assets/db/07cf533ddb1d06350cf1ddb5942ef5ad.jpg[/Img]

One of the wonderful things bureaucracy does for us.

So, in other words, once Soccer takes off in America, everyones going to have a much easier time.

Thanks for the heads up, Deja.

 

[Dejavu]

More or less i was pointing out the point that our system is broken so i understand why we have illegal immigrants. We are in serious need of reform but reform for the sake of reform is not the answer either. Obtaining a green card should take the extent of filling out the form. The Citizenship section is probably about right... it should take a few years to get that.

 

[Morcheeba]

I grew up in the Cowichan Valley, at the time about 60%-65% Native. Their EMPLOYMENT rate was 4% and they got welfare cheques, treaty cheques and got paid to go to highschool. Teachers were 'not allowed' to fail them even though they spent the majority of their time in the 'craft room', a room that only the Native students were allowed in, it had a Playstation, Nintendo, Sega (lol Sega) and a full kitchen supplied with free pop and snacks.

If the British did not come here and take the land, it would have been taken by someone else. At least the Canadian Government tries to make amends.

I don't disagree with you. I think they're pretty lucky they do get what they do for free considering they WERE taken over.

However, I still understand and sympathize with their situation.

You know it wasn't until the late 70-80's proper plumbing was even offered on some of the reservations? They did not have working toilets.

 

[Mirewen]

You know it wasn't until the late 70-80's proper plumbing was even offered on some of the reservations? They did not have working toilets.

The Cowichan Native Band gets free houses and 1 new car every 3 years (they trade in their 3 year old car for it). I guess it depends on the band, until recently they were the richest band in North America.

I can think of different ethnicities that have had it just as bad if not worse. Obvious one being Blacks (at least the aboriginals got to stay in their 'home', rather than being dragged away from their families and forced into slavery). History isn't rainbows and kittens.

Back on topic, I don't see how illegal immigrants have any kind of say in, well, anything. My parents went through the process to get here, I think if you're going to skip that and laugh in the face of everyone who did it fairly, then you can stfu and deal with it.

 

[Morcheeba]

Here in Canada we can get a working Visa in a little over 8 months. I know this because I processed the documentation required to bring a British man over. We had offered him a contractual position.

The only real difficulties were in proving to the Government we could not fill the position with citizens. I had gone through temp after temp trying to get someone to stick it out and if I were lucky a guy would last a month or two, never long enough to hire on full-time (our temp agency contract stipulated 8 months temporary before a FT hire). Most just pissed the job away by deciding not to show up to work for a couple days at a time, not answer their phone calls etc.

I have never had any doubt how easy it must be for people to immigrate to Canada. And our immigrants get ridiculous hand outs. They get a hell of a lot more than our deserving citizens do from our Government.

Buuuut that's another discussion for another time.

 

[Excim]

More or less i was pointing out the point that our system is broken so i understand why we have illegal immigrants. We are in serious need of reform but reform for the sake of reform is not the answer either. Obtaining a green card should take the extent of filling out the form. The Citizenship section is probably about right... it should take a few years to get that.

I'll agree that the system needs reform, because it certainly does. But that chart you posted is grossly exaggerated, and I just thought I'd do people a favour and point that out.

My father got a job offer in the states. Our whole family moved to the US within a few months of that job offer. He went first within the month he got the offer, and the rest of us shortly thereafter. 5 years of steady employment by the same company later, he filed for citizenship, just as the rest of the family did. One year after that, we were all US citizens.

Keep in mind that we DID immigrate from Canada, which has a much better history of keeping track of criminal and tax records than a country like Mexico, so it may take longer from countries like that.

In short, the chart Deja posted was by far a worst, WORST possible scenario for people.

 

[Mirewen]

Political satires are meant to be exaggerated though to some extent. Look at some Raeside comics, they're usually very exaggerated but they get the point across.

 

[Excim]

Political satires are meant to be exaggerated though to some extent. Look at some Raeside comics, they're usually very exaggerated but they get the point across.

Agreed, I just didn't want anyone to take it for strict fact.