In the Name of Science

[Damita]

Its your other ws gear not the gorget. Look at deci's ws modification part of his site. To sum it up:
Gorget will increase dmg over pcc because it adds a .1 modification.
#1 be sure you hit all hits on ws, getting full tp return. Add accuracy until this happens.
#2 In all other slots add the attribute modifier(s) (STR in most cases).

Gorgets won't increase ws damage if you can't overcome the 10 accuracy loss from pcc, but there are other slots where this can be modified.

Yeah I figured accuracy was the primary issues and was skewing the results. I'll repeat the tests once I get to 75 and get a couple of merits in.

 

[etchdog2000]

Gorgets won't increase ws damage if you can't overcome the 10 accuracy loss from pcc, but there are other slots where this can be modified.

The gorget says "increases weapons skill accuracy" as well as dmg. I have tested the gorget and would the dmg increase is about 15-20%(most easily noticable on Dynamis mobs), however I have never noticed that much of an increase in WS accuracy.

Didnt know if any of you can give a number of how much approximate accuracy is really associated with the gorget. I mean the gorget I would think would pull some of the wieght of the loss of a PCC in theory.

 

[Miruyasha]

Most weapon skills are highly accurate to begin with, so there's little chance of it showing an increase in accuracy. Its somewhat easy to notice accuracy changes with multi-hit ws like Raging Fists or Tachi: Jinpu or other multi hit skills. The damage, obviously, is decreased but that's not a reflection of the overall accuracy of the ws.

 

[jamal]

Most weapon skills are highly accurate to begin with, so there's little chance of it showing an increase in accuracy. Its somewhat easy to notice accuracy changes with multi-hit ws like Raging Fists or Tachi: Jinpu or other multi hit skills. The damage, obviously, is decreased but that's not a reflection of the overall accuracy of the ws.

WS gorgets are widely used by Warriors (Rampage/Vorpal Blade/Raging Rush) MNKS (Asuran Fists) and NIN (Blade:Jin) all multi-hit attacks that benefit from WS accuracy... Why a MNK would use Raging Fists or a Sam Tachi: Jinpu is way beyond me. WS Gorgets are not available for use at lower levels, so why you brought up these examples, I really don't know. If you don't understand what the current feel of the thread is, then don't post an answer... Why did you post this...
WS accuracy is HUGE on multi-hit ws's. And its simple as pie to see if you need more, IE TP-return after ws use.

 

[Bajaratt]

WS gorgets are widely used by Warriors (Rampage/Vorpal Blade/Raging Rush) MNKS (Asuran Fists) and NIN (Blade:Jin) all multi-hit attacks that benefit from WS accuracy... Why a MNK would use Raging Fists or a Sam Tachi: Jinpu is way beyond me. WS Gorgets are not available for use at lower levels, so why you brought up these examples, I really don't know. If you don't understand what the current feel of the thread is, then don't post an answer... Why did you post this...
WS accuracy is HUGE on multi-hit ws's. And its simple as pie to see if you need more, IE TP-return after ws use.

Because if accuracy isn't a problem, raging fists can hit for higher than a full-hit asuran with a double attack;

 

[CmdrFly]

I was kinda curious about that too. In any WS, you're able to proc a Double Attack on each hand. i.e. Raging Rush I could DA once at most, Rampage (if I'm offhanding a weapon) I could DA twice at max.

How are H2H calc'd? Max of one or two? I'd presume one since it's only one weapon you equip.

 

[Bajaratt]

I was kinda curious about that too. In any WS, you're able to proc a Double Attack on each hand. i.e. Raging Rush I could DA once at most, Rampage (if I'm offhanding a weapon) I could DA twice at max.

How are H2H calc'd? Max of one or two? I'd presume one since it's only one weapon you equip.

You can double attack with each fist, so I'd imagine you could double attack twice with a multi-hit weaponskill; but I'm not positive on that.

 

[jamal]

Because if accuracy isn't a problem, raging fists can hit for higher than a full-hit asuran with a double attack;

I honestly wasn't aware of this, but checked deci's site and yea, thats pretty nuts. 300tp Raging fists looked even more Dope. Where does the accuracy issue come from on Raging?

 

[Mai Ikari]

I honestly wasn't aware of this, but checked deci's site and yea, thats pretty nuts. 300tp Raging fists looked even more Dope. Where does the accuracy issue come from on Raging?

Raging Fists, as far as I can tell, has a hidden accuracy modifier of at least -10. It just plain likes to miss. Asuran Fists, on the other hand, has at least +10, which is where its reliability comes from.

And yes, if you're dual wielding, you can double attack with both hands (provided they're both the same weapon type)

 

[CmdrFly]

And yes, if you're dual wielding, you can double attack with both hands (provided they're both the same weapon type)

I don't really understand this... what would weapon type have to do with it? I go axe/sword mostly when I dual wield, and can testify that they both have a chance to DA in a single round. MNK dont really get a choice there either, they'll always have the same weapon type in each hand if they're using H2H weapons.

 

[jamal]

I don't really understand this... what would weapon type have to do with it? I go axe/sword mostly when I dual wield, and can testify that they both have a chance to DA in a single round. MNK dont really get a choice there either, they'll always have the same weapon type in each hand if they're using H2H weapons.

On weaponskills you can only double attack once per hand if you are using the same weapons, also adds another hit to the rampage if dual-weilding, with the potential for 2 more hits. DoT dmg it doesn't matter the weapon type, you can proc either at anytime.

 

[CmdrFly]

What! That's a load of dung. So offhanding sword, I will never proc a DA on the offhand swing (# 2 of 6)?

 

[jamal]

What! That's a load of dung. So offhanding sword, I will never proc a DA on the offhand swing (# 2 of 6)?

You don't even get that swing, OR the chance to double attack with. Which is why i say you better make the most of any offhand weapon you use other then axe if dual-weilding (See my 30 page rant lol)

 

[CmdrFly]

Well thats even more homo. Axe/sword Rampage is 5 hits, axe/axe is 6? That doesn't make sense... as axe/sword I get 15-16% for a full hit, meaning ~6% main ~6% sub. Unless the first 2 axe hits get full TP.

I honestly didn't read that thread. Got the jyst of it from a couple buddies who did, but didn't know there were details like this.

 

[jamal]

Well thats even more homo. Axe/sword Rampage is 5 hits, axe/axe is 6? That doesn't make sense... as axe/sword I get 15-16% for a full hit, meaning ~6% main ~6% sub. Unless the first 2 axe hits get full TP.

I honestly didn't read that thread. Got the jyst of it from a couple buddies who did, but didn't know there were details like this.

Thats why I can be outdamaged ws wise, because dual-weilding axe holders have the potential to beat me every single WS. You're losing the potential for 1/6 of ws damage yes.

 

[CmdrFly]

That doesn't really explain the TP thing though. Details below, please understand the numbers for base TP are not exact and moreso just estimates from experience.

Rampage A: axe/axe
- Assuming 6 hits -
1: 6% (mainhand axe)
2: 6% (offhand axe)
3-6: 1%
Total: 16%

Rampage B: axe/sword
- Assuming 6 hits -
1: 6% (mainhand axe)
2: 6% (offhand sword)
3-6: 1%
Total: 16%

Rampage C: axe/sword
- Assuming 5 hits -
1: 6% (mainhand axe)
2: 1% (mainhand axe)
3-5: 1%
Total: 9%

Rampage D: axe/sword
- Assuming 5 hits -
1: 6% (mainhand axe)
2: 6% (mainhand axe)
3-5: 1%
Total: 15%


On a full-hit Rampage, I get 15-16% (variation provided due to the unconfirmed data above) with axe/sword. Am I doing Rampage D? Do both first hits from the axe get full TP, even though the second should be considered an additional swing (normally calc'd at 1%)?

 

[jamal]

That doesn't really explain the TP thing though. Details below, please understand the numbers for base TP are not exact and moreso just estimates from experience.

Rampage A: axe/axe
- Assuming 6 hits -
1: 6% (mainhand axe)
2: 6% (offhand axe)
3-6: 1%
Total: 16%

Rampage B: axe/sword
- Assuming 6 hits -
1: 6% (mainhand axe)
2: 6% (offhand sword)
3-6: 1%
Total: 16%

Rampage C: axe/sword
- Assuming 5 hits -
1: 6% (mainhand axe)
2: 1% (mainhand axe)
3-5: 1%
Total: 9%

Rampage D: axe/sword
- Assuming 5 hits -
1: 6% (mainhand axe)
2: 6% (mainhand axe)
3-5: 1%
Total: 15%


On a full-hit Rampage, I get 15-16% (variation provided due to the unconfirmed data above) with axe/sword. Am I doing Rampage D? Do both first hits from the axe get full TP, even though the second should be considered an additional swing (normally calc'd at 1%)?

I believe you'd be D. If your range of normal tp is 15-16 my guess is DA procs for the 16 tp returns. It is possible to hit 17 tp return, but won't happen very often.
Delay of the Axe is also calculated into Tp-return. I receive one more tp back mainhanding Jug then mainhanding maneater with ridill. Rampage basically is an Axe only weaponskill, so they give a Bonus swing to those who dual-weild axes. They're not taking one away from you by subbing sword. I see the cup as Half-full, lol. Its a reward for any job that uses dual-weild to utilize the same weapon type. NIN, THF, WAR all have this happen when dual-weilding. THF offhanding Ridill I would expect to have one less tp return from DA as well. And NIN, well, I dunno many NIN's who would offhand something other then Katana, but their Blade:Jin would suffer as well I believe (can't prove that myself).

 

[CmdrFly]

Huh. News to me... thanks for the clarification. Yes I typically get 15% on normal Rampages, 16% with one DA. But that doesn't line up with the example base TP hits I got, so I gave the 'variation' of 15-16. I'm guessing I get 5.4-5.8% per hit, per hand.

I've been misled all these years, damn you dual wield.

 

[jamal]

Huh. News to me... thanks for the clarification. Yes I typically get 15% on normal Rampages, 16% with one DA. But that doesn't line up with the example base TP hits I got, so I gave the 'variation' of 15-16. I'm guessing I get 5.4-5.8% per hit, per hand.

I've been misled all these years, damn you Joyeuse. I won't use you anymore

Fixed

 

[CmdrFly]

You underestimate my gimpeditynessaholism. I'm a company sword man.