inflation problems <no flame plz>
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we should stand at crags and buy chocobos nonstop, and get off and buy more. That'd take alot of gil out if we could get each chocobo toward 100k 
Or we can delete our character while they have alot of gil on them!
Or we can delete our character while they have alot of gil on them!
More Dynamis Shells. We're a pretty Dynamis-slacking server.
More useful NPC-bought things.
More useful NPC-bought things.
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Yes I agree on the more useful npc bought things
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well starting out I dont think there is much we are self can do. The money is already out there and is going keep changing hands.
but i was reading some of these post and was thinking what if se flooded the ah with items so when the item sold se would get the money taking the money completely out of the system.
It easy to see se been trying to figure out a problem. that was imparent when they change half to camp mobs and made them bcnm. though what they didnt see bcnm are not as easy as going camp the npc and mog house is already at max without the extra no drop items. Many people blame the gilseller for the massive flux in prices, which is somewhat true because they to where hurt when they made archer ring and emp pin no drop, making them camp other mob and end up cc each other taking away money from them. There also seem to be a lower drop rate on these rare item lately it seem or maybe it just that there so much of a damand that you just dont see them on the market anymore.
The price will surely keep to rise with time, and have seem to even rise at a even more higher rate since the update.
but i was reading some of these post and was thinking what if se flooded the ah with items so when the item sold se would get the money taking the money completely out of the system.
It easy to see se been trying to figure out a problem. that was imparent when they change half to camp mobs and made them bcnm. though what they didnt see bcnm are not as easy as going camp the npc and mog house is already at max without the extra no drop items. Many people blame the gilseller for the massive flux in prices, which is somewhat true because they to where hurt when they made archer ring and emp pin no drop, making them camp other mob and end up cc each other taking away money from them. There also seem to be a lower drop rate on these rare item lately it seem or maybe it just that there so much of a damand that you just dont see them on the market anymore.
The price will surely keep to rise with time, and have seem to even rise at a even more higher rate since the update.
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- Zaltana
greed is a part of human nature. we cant stop it in real life. and although im usually more optomistic abut things like this i see no cure for it in the game.
Zaltana said:
It isn't a matter of greed, for the final time. Gil just keeps entering the pool while very little leaves. It lowers how much gil is worth in the end.
There is already way to much gil in this server to get rid of it, so get used to it.
every day X amount of NM's spawn and X amount of people get a high end item.. which they sell.. and get gil for.. so.. i dont think there is an "easy solution" to the gil inflation problem..
~nib
~nib
Make it take 1/2 the current alloted currency to make a Relic weapon and double the price of Dynamis entry to 2million. We would see more Relics which would be great and spend twice as much money to go to Dynamis. And when people saw that getting a relic was half as hard more would be willing to do dynamis and try for their weapon.
The crux of the problem, as I see it, is gilselling.
To stop gilselling, we need to stop gilbuying. If someone on your shell complains that they're too poor to afford X item, encourage them to try an alternative, run a BC to get it, camp the nm, etc. Offer to help. If you'll spend two hours in Eldieme on a coffer hunt, you can spend a few hours with a friend waiting for Mee Deggi to pop (and let your friend have the drop; if we want to stop inflation, don't insist on selling it and splitting profits -- USE of items by players decreases the demand for other items, lowering prices).
I believe that people who buy gil are people who are discouraged with the game and their ability to make gil. I remember a level 50 monk on an old shell who said they were going to buy 80 million gil since it was so hard to farm for Ochiudo's Kote, Scorp harness, etc. I told her my farming techniques and pointed out the merits of a few crafts, but she wasn't interested in putting in the time; I dunno if she went out and bought 80 mil or no, but I think that's when people do it.
So if we encourage people to stay calm and patient, and help them out to quest gear, farm crafting materials, camp nm's and run BC's/ENM's, we'll start devaluing gil. If we can do everything we want in game without gil, we simply won't need it.
Another helpful asset are diversified crafters in every shell. If someone can make the item you need, 95% of the time, it's easier to farm mats/buy them from npc than to pay for a finished product off of AH.
Signed gear supports deflation! It proves that someone made it for you instead of you buying it off of AH.
Just my thoughts; I'm no economist, but I think these things would help.
To stop gilselling, we need to stop gilbuying. If someone on your shell complains that they're too poor to afford X item, encourage them to try an alternative, run a BC to get it, camp the nm, etc. Offer to help. If you'll spend two hours in Eldieme on a coffer hunt, you can spend a few hours with a friend waiting for Mee Deggi to pop (and let your friend have the drop; if we want to stop inflation, don't insist on selling it and splitting profits -- USE of items by players decreases the demand for other items, lowering prices).
I believe that people who buy gil are people who are discouraged with the game and their ability to make gil. I remember a level 50 monk on an old shell who said they were going to buy 80 million gil since it was so hard to farm for Ochiudo's Kote, Scorp harness, etc. I told her my farming techniques and pointed out the merits of a few crafts, but she wasn't interested in putting in the time; I dunno if she went out and bought 80 mil or no, but I think that's when people do it.
So if we encourage people to stay calm and patient, and help them out to quest gear, farm crafting materials, camp nm's and run BC's/ENM's, we'll start devaluing gil. If we can do everything we want in game without gil, we simply won't need it.
Another helpful asset are diversified crafters in every shell. If someone can make the item you need, 95% of the time, it's easier to farm mats/buy them from npc than to pay for a finished product off of AH.
Signed gear supports deflation! It proves that someone made it for you instead of you buying it off of AH.
Just my thoughts; I'm no economist, but I think these things would help.
I guess some people need it spelled out clearly.
Selling items to other players does not add gil. This does not influence inflation in any way. Gilselling does not create gil. It does not contribute to inflation in any way. Gilbuying does not magically spawn gil. It isn't a factor of inflation in any way. Raising the price of an item people would obviously pay more for does not add gil. Being an business person isn't a cause for inflation in any way.
Monster dropped gil.
Quest gil.
Treasure chest/coffer gil.
Mission gil.
NPC-sold-items gil.
Those are the top 5 contributors to the inflation of gil in the game. Not the 3 people are assuming.
The only fix is to outright destroy or remove gil from the game.
Buying from NPCs.
Transportation.
Auction House Tax.
Jeuno Bazaar Tax.
Quests involving gil-trades.
Those are the top, and only five, means of removing gil out of circulation.
Removing items(IE: Relic Weapon Currency) from the game isn't a way to fix the economy. Halving the value required will not have an impact on the economy, it would just make it far easier to obtain something that, in most cases, shouldn't be easily obtained.
Signed items are in the same boat. Remember, auction house, you're still buying crated items. Does it matter if it's signed? Not really. Building Guild Points, for the HQ Crystals, again does not remove gil from the game, but rather items.
Selling items to other players does not add gil. This does not influence inflation in any way. Gilselling does not create gil. It does not contribute to inflation in any way. Gilbuying does not magically spawn gil. It isn't a factor of inflation in any way. Raising the price of an item people would obviously pay more for does not add gil. Being an business person isn't a cause for inflation in any way.
Monster dropped gil.
Quest gil.
Treasure chest/coffer gil.
Mission gil.
NPC-sold-items gil.
Those are the top 5 contributors to the inflation of gil in the game. Not the 3 people are assuming.
The only fix is to outright destroy or remove gil from the game.
Buying from NPCs.
Transportation.
Auction House Tax.
Jeuno Bazaar Tax.
Quests involving gil-trades.
Those are the top, and only five, means of removing gil out of circulation.
Removing items(IE: Relic Weapon Currency) from the game isn't a way to fix the economy. Halving the value required will not have an impact on the economy, it would just make it far easier to obtain something that, in most cases, shouldn't be easily obtained.
Signed items are in the same boat. Remember, auction house, you're still buying crated items. Does it matter if it's signed? Not really. Building Guild Points, for the HQ Crystals, again does not remove gil from the game, but rather items.
Skaw said:
I'm not high enough in level yet, but don't you also have to pay 1 million gil each time a Dynamis run is created? But then again, this server I hear is lacking in the Dynamis LS department so I can see why it would be overlooked as an effective method of erasing gil.
edit: n/m, durrr this would most likely be covered by "Buying from NPCs" ... it's late and I'm sleepy.
skaw i totally agree, except in regards to that last part
Building Guild Points... does not remove gil from the game
actually it does since
a) you buy materials to craft the item
b) you buy the item itself
in either case, whether you buy from AH or NPC that gil you spend is converted to GP, removing it from the system
the rest of what you said is spot on
Building Guild Points... does not remove gil from the game
actually it does since
a) you buy materials to craft the item
b) you buy the item itself
in either case, whether you buy from AH or NPC that gil you spend is converted to GP, removing it from the system
the rest of what you said is spot on
gir said:
Another that doesn't understand. Geez, do we have a freaking monkey working these things?
When you buy from the auction house, the gil doesn't disappear.
Guess I didn't fully explain why gilselling is a problem earlier.
It isn't a problem because it creates gil; it's a problem because of the efficiency with which it moves it into circulation.
When gilsellers band together, they can generate massive ammounts of gil quickly off of big drops. When people buy that gil, it goes back into circulation immediately.
The problem being that access to that gil is increased by the artificial means. The gil has been circulated once for whatever drop/synth item the gilseller sold/made, but then it is circulated again when the player buys it. Consider that if the same 1 million gil could be made to move a thousand times an hour (through purchases on AH, say), it is doing much more to increase inflation than if that 1 million gil moved one time an hour. This is an extreme case, obviously, but the idea holds true even if it's on a weekly or monthly basis.
The point is, a lot of players who wouldn't be able to afford inflated prices are able to because there is a contingent in the game that focuses purely on getting gil consolidated and fluid for such players in exchange for rl profit.
Another example: suppose that the entire savings of the gilseller groups were suddenly given to players who were going to use the money to buy items. This would be an immediate cause of inflation because there would be significantly more gil in circulation, so people could charge more and expect someone to pay it, simply because the resources are readily available to pay it.
If we slow the gilsellers down, we will hurt the fluidity of gil's movement.
It doesn't remove it from the game, in the same way that casting slow on an exp mob doesn't kill it. It just makes it deal less damage over time.
I don't know the economic theory that runs beneath all of this; it just seems like good logic.
Anyway, not saying it's the only solution; obviously removing gil/items from circulation works too, and the idea of Dynamis knocking off a mil at a time is a good one.
Personally, I'd also like to ask that high-level players who quit NOT sell their characters. If they're bought by gilsellers, that's adding to the problem; if they're bought by players, their net worth stays in some form of circulation. My impression is that the payoffs aren't much; isn't your old community worth that much?
(I think the GP thing DOES remove gil from circulation because the item represents an investment that doesn't have an immediate return; if you cannot resell the item for profit, you are slowing gil circulation -- the idea behind most GP is that you'll make MORE gil later by it, but there is certainly a short term slowdown).
It isn't a problem because it creates gil; it's a problem because of the efficiency with which it moves it into circulation.
When gilsellers band together, they can generate massive ammounts of gil quickly off of big drops. When people buy that gil, it goes back into circulation immediately.
The problem being that access to that gil is increased by the artificial means. The gil has been circulated once for whatever drop/synth item the gilseller sold/made, but then it is circulated again when the player buys it. Consider that if the same 1 million gil could be made to move a thousand times an hour (through purchases on AH, say), it is doing much more to increase inflation than if that 1 million gil moved one time an hour. This is an extreme case, obviously, but the idea holds true even if it's on a weekly or monthly basis.
The point is, a lot of players who wouldn't be able to afford inflated prices are able to because there is a contingent in the game that focuses purely on getting gil consolidated and fluid for such players in exchange for rl profit.
Another example: suppose that the entire savings of the gilseller groups were suddenly given to players who were going to use the money to buy items. This would be an immediate cause of inflation because there would be significantly more gil in circulation, so people could charge more and expect someone to pay it, simply because the resources are readily available to pay it.
If we slow the gilsellers down, we will hurt the fluidity of gil's movement.
It doesn't remove it from the game, in the same way that casting slow on an exp mob doesn't kill it. It just makes it deal less damage over time.
I don't know the economic theory that runs beneath all of this; it just seems like good logic.
Anyway, not saying it's the only solution; obviously removing gil/items from circulation works too, and the idea of Dynamis knocking off a mil at a time is a good one.
Personally, I'd also like to ask that high-level players who quit NOT sell their characters. If they're bought by gilsellers, that's adding to the problem; if they're bought by players, their net worth stays in some form of circulation. My impression is that the payoffs aren't much; isn't your old community worth that much?
(I think the GP thing DOES remove gil from circulation because the item represents an investment that doesn't have an immediate return; if you cannot resell the item for profit, you are slowing gil circulation -- the idea behind most GP is that you'll make MORE gil later by it, but there is certainly a short term slowdown).
micah2424 said:
thanks for such a well-thought-out and meaningful post, we sure could use more of that here on this board
seriously, did you even read my post?
skaw, i'm sorry you don't agree maybe this will help
95% of GP items are bought from NPC or synthed at a loss...
let me give you an example:
i bought today's gp item from an NPC for ~1.8k each
i bought 9, so that's ~16k
i turned those 9 in for ~3.2k GP
thus, 16k gil out of the system, turned into GP
*poof*
let's say i had bought it on AH (if any were avail):
it costs 1k on AH... but! didn't someone else get that gil? yes! however if they synthed it they certainly took a loss (it's a 15-20k synth iirc)
AND, let's say i buy 9 of them and turn around and NPC them all for gil, then instead of turning in for GP not only would my 9k change hands, but i would gain 3.2k back
(since NPC'ing for gil nets me the same gil as i would have got GP for from guild NPC... in other words Amount of GP for certain item = Amount of Gil you would have gotten from NPC'ing it)
However, "synthing for a loss" may pertain to "bought materials from the auction house" and synthed an item that doesn't sell for as much or more than the gil transfered.
So again. It doesn't necessarily mean gil was removed from the server.
So again. It doesn't necessarily mean gil was removed from the server.