Intelligent Design?

[Sculli]

As far as the rest of your comebacks Sculli, I'm just gonna agree to disagree and leave it at that.

That's fine, let's take this in a different direction.

Every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.

A sin against the Holy Spirit can not actually being committed these days anymore. This essentially gives any believer a free pass. No need to follow the scriptures, because in the end we will all be forgiven. In fact, this could essentially make believers worse people than non-believers. What I mean by that is that non-believers will take responsibility for their actions at any given point in time, for their do not have anyone else to blame or ask for forgiveness. Believers on the other hand can be as horrible in life as they want to be, because they *know* that no matter what, in the end they *will* be forgiven, regardless of their actions. Very convinient indeed.

What is the value of religion (in this case the Christian faith) if the rules do not need to be followed?

 

[Kat]

That's fine, let's take this in a different direction.



A sin against the Holy Spirit can not actually being committed these days anymore. This essentially gives any believer a free pass. No need to follow the scriptures, because in the end we will all be forgiven. In fact, this could essentially make believers worse people than non-believers. What I mean by that is that non-believers will take responsibility for their actions at any given point in time, for their do not have anyone else to blame or ask for forgiveness. Believers on the other hand can be as horrible in life as they want to be, because they *know* that no matter what, in the end they *will* be forgiven, regardless of their actions. Very convinient indeed.

What is the value of religion (in this case the Christian faith) if the rules do not need to be followed?

Sculli that scripture is referring to AFTER Armageddon, the 1,000 year Reign of Satan, and then God coming to us and saying it's time for us to believe in him. IF at that time, we choose to still not believe that he is our God Almighty then it will be sinning against the Holy Spirit.

Those who at this time sin against the Holy Spirit by not accepting God as our Father, Savior, etc., will be cast to Hell along with Satan forever.

Then after Satan and those who still do not believe are cast to Hell, all the people who have died will be resurrected and live on Earth in Paradise.

Lastly, it's been years since I've studied/read the bible. So that is the very basics of how I was taught, by all the churches I ever studied with. I was a weird kid. My "thing" (hobby) was to go to the different churches in town on Sundays and listen to Sermons. From all religions. I even went so far as to go to Holy Cross School when I was in 7th and 8th grade and I'm not baptized Catholic.

God, Jesus and the Bible fascinate me and always have. Again, I'm not a holy roller or bible banger. It's the materialism and commercialism that has turned me away from religion persay.

 

[Shaunessy]

I think that with all of the people that go to hell, the devil has a far stronger army than that of heaven.

 

[Sculli]

Then after Satan and those who still do not believe are cast to Hell, all the people who have died will be resurrected and live on Earth in Paradise.

How is this going to work from a logistic perspective? Where will all those people live? Will there really be milk and honey fountains? Will the milk actually come from cows, and the honey from bees, or will it be created from air (which is oxygen and hydrogen, while milk and honey do have a few more elements in it). or do we simply not worry about the details at this point and just have faith that God will get it right, somehow, magically.

How come WWI started Armageddon, and not any of the previous wars that created far more casualties than WWI?

What if God doesn't actually show up in 2914?
Convinient that it is a 1,000 year reign (I would have figured it to be a 666 year reign, but anyway), so no one can possibly stick around long enough to get some proof.

 

[Kat]

Because the 144,000 were all finally in Heaven when WWI happened.

Again I cannot remember total details on some of it, but it had to be a World War not just any war.

Again, I called my Mom last nite and she said to read Matthew Chapter 26. She also read something about "the Master".

I truly am sorry, I don't even have a bible here at the present time (packed and in the storage unit for the time being) to try to find scriptures like I used to know. Most everything I know, I either remember from studying or I just call my Mom and have her look the stuff up for me.

PS. The 666 is a sign that will be on the forehead of certain people. It doesn't represent "years".

 

[Sorrowfulturnip]

666 is the mark of the beast that will be either on our foreheads or our hands. Also its not 1000 reign of satan. When Jesus arrives, we will be raptured meaning we will dissappear from earth and the dead will come back and we will all meet Christ among the clouds. Meantime there will be a 7 year tribulation where the anti-christ will become ruler of a one world government. This anti-Christ is satan in the flesh. for 7 years there will be plagues, metors, water turns to blood, fires, earthquakes and other unimaginable things that will occur over time. After this 7 years of hell, satan will be locked up for 1000 years and there will be a peace reign. People will repopulate from the 7 year tribulation and the world will be peaceful. Peaceful to the point where you can stick your head in a lion's mouth and he will not bite it off. After the 1000 years, satan is free, armageddon takes place where God himself locks satan and all his followers and non-believers or "lost souls" in the lake of fire for eternity. Yes satan too will be suffering. He does not rule over hell like most people believe. As of now im not 100% sure. The Bible refers to hell as hades where sinners are kept until God puts them in the lake of fire after armageddon. I'm not sure if satan runs it and tortures people in it and its all demonic and full of fire like we invision it. But in the lake of fire he will be tormented as well.

Now as for believers being forgiven no matter what as sculli pointed out. Keep in mind that when you screw up you need to ask for forgiveness and accept chirst in your life in order to be saved and go to heaven. BUT when you ask for forgiveness you also have to repent of your sins, meaning stray away from your sins and never do them again. For if keep doing them on purpose without care then you may not be accepted into heaven and with Christ.

Of course this goes to all those who do believe or wants to believe and hasn't yet.

 

[Sculli]

Alright, again, a couple logistical questions. Those who would be raptured, where would they be staying for 7 years? How high up in the clouds are we talking, because it's quite cold as you get higher up, and there isn't all that much oxygen at all.

If Satan brings back the dead, are we talking all dead, or just those who went to hell?

As far as forgivness goes, you can screw up all your life, and then, with your last breath accept christ into your life, which is very convinient indeed. As long as you do it within the last breath, you will be forgivien.

I am really not all that good at religion, but if God created the Earth, then Satan must be Gods creation as well, or am I mistaken? If God didn't create Satan, then where did he come from, and more importantly, if Satan exists next to God, then why didn't Satan just build his own little hades world? Perhaps Satan works in mysterious ways as well.

 

[Kat]

666 is the mark of the beast that will be either on our foreheads or our hands. Also its not 1000 reign of satan. When Jesus arrives, we will be raptured meaning we will dissappear from earth and the dead will come back and we will all meet Christ among the clouds. Meantime there will be a 7 year tribulation where the anti-christ will become ruler of a one world government. This anti-Christ is satan in the flesh. for 7 years there will be plagues, metors, water turns to blood, fires, earthquakes and other unimaginable things that will occur over time. After this 7 years of hell, satan will be locked up for 1000 years and there will be a peace reign. People will repopulate from the 7 year tribulation and the world will be peaceful. Peaceful to the point where you can stick your head in a lion's mouth and he will not bite it off. After the 1000 years, satan is free, armageddon takes place where God himself locks satan and all his followers and non-believers or "lost souls" in the lake of fire for eternity. Yes satan too will be suffering. He does not rule over hell like most people believe. As of now im not 100% sure. The Bible refers to hell as hades where sinners are kept until God puts them in the lake of fire after armageddon. I'm not sure if satan runs it and tortures people in it and its all demonic and full of fire like we invision it. But in the lake of fire he will be tormented as well.

Now as for believers being forgiven no matter what as sculli pointed out. Keep in mind that when you screw up you need to ask for forgiveness and accept chirst in your life in order to be saved and go to heaven. BUT when you ask for forgiveness you also have to repent of your sins, meaning stray away from your sins and never do them again. For if keep doing them on purpose without care then you may not be accepted into heaven and with Christ.

Of course this goes to all those who do believe or wants to believe and hasn't yet.

Thank you for explaining that Sorrow!!!! As I've repeatedly said I had the jist of it, but was very confused as to what was the order of things (it's been a very long time since I've studied). I personally very much appreciate you fixing my order of things. I am confused about the people who've died rising up though. I thought that wasn't gonna happen til it was all over.

As far as Satan goes, he was an Angel who basically felt slighted, if I'm not mistaken, and therefore turned bad. And please correct me if I've muddled this part also.

As far as where will we all go? There will be room for all of us in Paradise, and again, you just "know" it'll work out because God says it's so^^.

 

[Halifirien]

I think we're wandering away from the original debate, although seeing the differences in interpretation of ancient writings does highlight part of the problem here. Denominational differences are often based on what a group decides to emphasize and what it chooses to ignore. They can do that because there are no rules saying they can't.

Science, on the other hand, is self-correcting in that scientists aren't allowed to simply ignore data they find troubling... and if they do, other scientists will gladly pounce on them and point out what they did.

Again, two different areas of knowledge following two completely different sets of rules about how that knowledge is attained. If Christians (and as far as I can tell they're the only ones pushing Intelligent Design) want their beliefs in a science classroom, they have to play by science's rules. They refuse to do that, and their "theory" is dismissed. Rightly so, because it's not science.

It doesn't matter to me what someone personally believes. Like the Thomas Jefferson quote says, "It does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods or no god. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg."

You won't catch me arguing that religious faith has no social value, because that would simply be untrue. Religion can divide people and create strife, but it can also be motivation for charity and goodness and art. I may be atheist, but that doesn't mean I have no appreciation for Handel's "Messiah."

Challenging the individual beliefs of the faithful is often a waste of breath. It's all riddled with lapses in logic that can drive you mad, so let them believe what they want as long as they're not hurting anyone or trying to dismember science education.

 

[Grem]

This stuff is getting really deep... time to tweak the convo back to goodness!


BOOBS

 

[masterorion]

sculli, your starting to think the childish thoughts. who says heaven is in the clouds. if it were in the clouds, your dead, you dont need oxygen. further more, you dont need to eat, why worry about milk and honey. all these talks about satanic numbers and whatnot are just stupid. 666 is probably one of those superstitious numbers just like the number 13.

and just so you know, satan was originally an angel. he was said to be one of the most beautiful angels there were.

 

[Shaunessy]

Because the 144,000 were all finally in Heaven when WWI happened.

Oh god we got a jehovia witness here.

 

[Bigboy]

Because the 144,000 were all finally in Heaven when WWI happened.

Oh god we got a jehovia witness here.

I tried really hard not to say anything about that. =D Have to admit, it made me giggle though.

 

[Sculli]

and just so you know, satan was originally an angel. he was said to be one of the most beautiful angels there were.

What happened next?

 

[Grem]

What happened next?

He tried to dethrone god and was cast down from heaven to hades.

 

[Kat]

No, I'm not a Jehovah Witness. But my Mother did study with them and almost became one many years ago. Therefore when I was a teenager she made me study also.

Some of their beliefs make a lot of sense. Some of it is complete and total bullshit, as are all specific religions. Re-read what I've already posted. I have said on numerous occasions, I've listened to sermons, studied with, yada yada almost every type of religion out there. It's a hobby. I also went to a Catholic Jr. High School.

Anything else smartass you'd like to comment on? This isn't the FB guys.

 

[Shaunessy]

No, that 144k made me think of all the arguments I got into with family and door-knockers though. My moms sister is a witness....scary.

 

[Kat]

No, that 144k made me think of all the arguments I got into with family and door-knockers though. My moms sister is a witness....scary.

Agreed, some of them are very scary. Thank goodness my Mom realized it in enough time. Then again, there are some who are coolest people you'd ever meet, as in all religions. I think deep southern Baptists scare me the most though^^. Sorry to any of you who are.

 

[Tyrath]

I voted "Religion is the opium of the people."

I really hate it, but I won't get into that, makes me mad =P

 

[Lokkin]

Atheist, believe in the fact that evolution is natures way of adjusting to the environment, don't think god has any part of it, nor does he have any part in the big bang, but thats not part of the discussion.

I think that intelligent design is a load of hooey, as I said before I think evolution is just a process of multi and single celled organisms to adjust and adapt to their environment, the most potent of all being viruses.