Intelligent Design?

[Sculli]

Earlier this month, the state Board of Education adopted new science teaching standards that treat evolution as a flawed theory, defying the view of science groups.

Although local school boards still decide how science is taught in the classrooms, the vote was seen as a major victory for proponents of intelligent design, which says that the universe is so complex that it must have been created by a higher power.

Take the poll!
Discuss!

 

[Halifirien]

As I've posted before, teaching Intelligent Design in a science class would be like teaching exorcism in medical school.

 

[Skaw]

The Vatican already declared that ID shouldn't be tought as Science. Soooo... Mythology.

 

[Sculli]

As I've posted before, teaching Intelligent Design in a science class would be like teaching exorcism in medical school.

Interesting subject as well, according to someone somewhere the number of performed exorcisms has gone up significantly, significantly enough for the Vatican to actually hold a conference on it.

Guess in terms of religion exorcism is old school.

 

[Rones]

I have to admit, looking in the mirror, it becomes obvious that I descended from apes.

Just want to point out, but evolution does not claim we evolved from apes. Rather apes and man evolved from the same parent species that no longer exists. Think of it was as forking evolutionary path from a distant ancestory that was held in common, but we did not evolve from modern apes. That is a common misconception.

Actually Skaw, that's just the opinion of the Vatacan's astronomer. The current pope said "intelligent project" as you can see later in your article. The religious groups are devided on the subject to say the least. As a Christian I think God started the spark (eg: big bang) and may have known what the result would be, but I don't think he actually designed it. So much unknown about the beginning of time and pre Earth that we just can not know...yet.

 

[Kat]

Well I'm not a holy roller or anything. Hell I don't even go to Church. Churches are just ... (won't go into my religious beliefs on a gaming board) ... but I do believe we came from God (hence Adam and Eve).

Just my opinion, take it or leave it.

Anyway I voted: Religion is the opium of the people.

 

[Chemical_Penguin]

Mythology for sure.

Evolution ftw.

 

[Sonofninx]

i choosse you option #7!

"Meh!"

 

[resipsa]

Religion and science do not contradict one another because they seek to answer different questions.

However, religion can cripple the progress of science.

Consider Albert Einstein's two great blunders:

1. Einstein realized that his theory of relativity predicted a time-dependent universe. This would mean that if the universe was expanding, time must have had a beginning and probably an end. He also realized that his theory predicted that a static (i.e. non-expanding) universe would contract and collapse.

He did not accept that the universe was expanding or that it had a beginning, because this was contradictory to his religious beliefs that time had existed forever and that god had created a static universe.

He tried to solve this problem with the "cosmological constant", which he claimed repelled matter at the exact same rate of its attraction.

Of course, we know now that the universe is expanding unimaginably quickly.

2. He refused to accept quantum mechanics, stating that "God does not play dice." Who knows what a brilliant mind such as his could have discovered if he had approached quantum mechanics with an open mind.

One of the greatest thinkers ever to exist was impaired by religious fear.

 

[Kat]

Religion and science do not contradict one another because they seek to answer different questions.

However, religion can cripple the progress of science.

Consider Albert Einstein's two great blunders:

1. Einstein realized that his theory of relativity predicted a time-dependent universe. This would mean that if the universe was expanding, time must have had a beginning and probably an end. He also realized that his theory predicted that a static (i.e. non-expanding) universe would contract and collapse.

He did not accept that the universe was expanding or that it had a beginning, because this was contradictory to his religious beliefs that time had existed forever and that god had created a static universe.

He tried to solve this problem with the "cosmological constant", which he claimed repelled matter at the exact same rate of its attraction.

Of course, we know now that the universe is expanding unimaginably quickly.

2. He refused to accept quantum mechanics, stating that "God does not play dice." Who knows what a brilliant mind such as his could have discovered if he had approached quantum mechanics with an open mind.

One of the greatest thinkers ever to exist was impaired by religious fear.

Sorry this just doesn't make sense to me. Firstly the first sentence of the Bible starts out: "In the beginning, God created ..." Feel free to check out any version of the bible and it will start like that. Lastly, the end is Armageddon. Well, Armageddon and then the 1,000 year reign and then all the people who've died will raise up and we will live on earth "happily ever after". That's just a short version.

One more thing, I truly feel we are in Armageddon right now. Read about it.

 

[resipsa]

Sorry this just doesn't make sense to me. Firstly the first sentence of the Bible starts out: "In the beginning, God created ..." Feel free to check out any version of the bible and it will start like that. Lastly, the end is Armageddon. Well, Armageddon and then the 1,000 year reign and then all the people who've died will raise up and we will live on earth "happily ever after". That's just a short version.

One more thing, I truly feel we are in Armageddon right now. Read about it.

Thank you for proving my point. The bible says it, so we have to accept it and not look any further.

The bible says alot of things that don't make sense if taken literally. God didn't write the bible, human beings did. That doesn't mean God doesn't exist , and it dosn't mean that God didn't create the universe. But the bible does not speak "literally" for him.

 

[Kat]

Thank you for proving my point. The bible says it, so we have to accept it and not look any further.

The bible says alot of things that don't make sense if taken literally. God didn't write the bible, human beings did. That doesn't mean God doesn't exist , and it dosn't mean that God didn't create the universe. But the bible does not speak "literally" for him.

But it does. The people who wrote the bible were "guided by God's own hand". It's all about faith^^.

 

[resipsa]

But it does. The people who wrote the bible were "guided by God's own hand". It's all about faith^^.

I agree - It is all about faith. But you don't have to interpret the bible literally to have faith. The point of my post is that a dogmatic approach to religion and science will stop the progress of science. You can choose a form of faith that ignores objective reality or one that reconciles objective reality with the bible. One is not superior to the other.

I suggest you re-evaluate your literalist interpretation next time you eat shellfish or pork, or think about all the times your children disobeyed you and you didn't take them to the street to be publicly stoned to death (even though the thought may have crossed your mind ~.o)

 

[Halifirien]

The problem with divine revelation is that you only have that person's word for it that they actually experienced what they say they did. It's all hearsay of the worst kind.

"Right, folks... God told me we're not suppose do thus-and-such."

"Why should we believe you?"

"Because God said you should."

There's no independent verification for any of that sort of thing. The Bible heaps praise on unquestioning childlike faith, but that's exactly the kind of faith which scares the crap out of me.

Intelligent Design is a load of Christian doctrine tarted up to look like science, and it's nothing of the sort. Just because Becky Biblebeater and Cooter Stumpfuck turn up their noses at Darwin because they don't understand how an eye could evolve doesn't matter because your basic biology textbook can.

Science is the search for natural explanations for things; Intelligent Design throws out that definition and says there's a supernatural basis for our being here. If you want to believe that, knock your self out. Just don't try to shove Christianity into a science classroom where it doesn't belong.

Creationism and evolution are not incompatible concepts. The problem is the onus is on the Creationist to accept evolution as the mechanism for long-term change. Scientists are not obligated to entertain supernatural explanations for the world's origins, and that's what pisses off the Jesus People so badly.

 

[Dejavu]

My favorite quote is one from The wrestler and (former or current idk) governer of Minnesota Jesse Ventura. He said, "Religion is a crutch for the weak minded." I firmly believe this to be true and therefore voted Opium. ID is a joke IMO.

 

[Daveman]

But it does. The people who wrote the bible were "guided by God's own hand". It's all about faith^^.

As you approach a town to attack it, first offer its people terms for peace. If they accept your terms and open the gates to you, then all the people inside will serve you in forced labor. But if they refuse to make peace and prepare to fight, you must attack the town. When the LORD your God hands it over to you, kill every man in the town. But you may keep for yourselves all the women, children, livestock, and other plunder. You may enjoy the spoils of your enemies that the LORD your God has given you.

When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her. And if the slave girl's owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave girl, but he must treat her as his daughter. If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife. If he fails in any of these three ways, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment.

(note: these observations taken from this website which has a ton more)


Although I'm an athesist, I do respect people's religious beliefs, but I do want to point out that even if you're christian, you should be very wary about what the bible says. Alot of the old testement is dead wrong, and this whole issue on intelligent design is completely within the old testement.

--

Now for direct arguments against teaching ID in school: Unless in a type of philososphy class, ID should be left out of the curriculum. The reason is it has no evidence or scientific backing. Alot of opponents to teaching evolution say that it's just a theory. And they're right, it is just a theory, and that's why it's taught, bio teachers don't(shouldn't) say evolution is 100% correct, and there should be a clear indication that it's a theory.

ID isn't even a theory, to teach it in a science class, you'd first have to define what it is, "An idea that comes from certain religous beliefs, and can't be proved nor has any evidence backing it up". Infact if they clearly define where the theory comes from, and what concrete scientific grounding it has (none) before teaching it, maybe it'd be ok. But I somehow doubt the people pushing for ID would want a clause like that to start off the lesson.

A 3rd argument is why stop at ID? What about other religon's theories? Some are neither ID or evolution. if you want to add ID you'd have to add pretty much any religion's or group's idea on how life was created. Maybe no one designed us, but we're really fallen gods, maybe the winds of the earth created us to protect our planet, maybe we're little baby gods, and when we die our souls grow to our true immortal selves where we sit amongst the gods, maybe we're part of an endless cycle of re-incarnation, maybe...

 

[Trippyhippy]

Agnostic... 4tw

Anyone who says they KNOW for sure what is after this life is a liar.

Faith is trust that has not been earned.

 

[pakomen]

I think the whole bible (and all other religions) are myth. One example: explain to me how a man could possibly survive for days in the stomach of a whale. Relistically.

 

[Legomyeggo]

Bibles/stories of becoming all seem like bullshit to me. Science > Guy walking on Water.

 

[pakomen]

The bible seems much more like science fiction than anything.

Walking on water
Flying
Raising dead
Healing touch
Creating a habitable planet
Creating life
etc...

lol. Seems like something you'd see on National Geographic 500 years from now.