Intelligent Design?

[Dejavu]

I think im going to start a religion. I'll call it Kirinism. Pray to the FFXI gods and hope that my prayers are answered in real life. Then when a COINCIDENCE happens i can submit it as truth that my religion is the correct one. So... who wants to join me as a Kirinist?

 

[Kat]

I think im going to start a religion. I'll call it Kirinism. Pray to the FFXI gods and hope that my prayers are answered in real life. Then when a COINCIDENCE happens i can submit it as truth that my religion is the correct one. So... who wants to join me as a Kirinist?

I will comment on this considering it's directed at me. Re-read my post. I said this is not the first time something like this has happened (since my sister died). There have been several instances over the last 6 years where really freaky crap has happened. Again I won't elaborate on it. Quite honestly the majority of it is just none of your business.

Lastly, where have I EVER tried to say that my view about God and the Bible is the correct one? Again re-read my posts, and definitely don't put words in my mouth.

 

[Dejavu]

it was not directed at you sorry if u took it that way i was just being a jackass in general.

 

[Halifirien]

You Kirinists sicken me! Altana all the way, baby!

 

[Galaika]

You Kirinists sicken me! Altana all the way, baby!

What has Altana ever done for us? Praise Promathia, and may death come swiftly for his foes.

 

[Anttaru]

It's in our nature to believe anything we're told when we are young.

I was born into the Catholic religion. And as i age further more, i find i'm developing my own ways of coping with the whole reality of living along side what i cannot prove.

The word "Faith" means to blindly go foward.

At the same time i am petrified of God. I think he leaves us to learn from our experiences, and what happens here is all part of the learning process. Perhapse. Why does he allow bad things to happen ? We can never know for sure, but on a personal note, i think life is the chance to choose our eternity. All kinds of crazy shit will happen out there and one day to you and i, and it's definatly not a joke.

I once read, "Who you are is God's gift to you, who you become is your gift to God". I don't know for sure if this saying pleases God.

I never meant to make this post mainly about God, but more about how we should never take anything beyond our knowlege for granted.

None of what we read in the Bible is the original accent, it was translated in the medevil days, which is why the book sounds as poetically dated as it is. So long as the messege gets through, it would even be ok if it was translated just yesterday. Controversy often hits the good book by the same people who choose to debate with it. I think it's ok to debate only if it leads to a revalation to our understanding, and revalations in this case don't often occure when we dissmiss the case. But in the end we'll find out, and i hope that will truly be the beginning.

Surly eternity has more treasures than just knowing the truth. Creation itself must be it. As we are now in physical state, we have used science to create modern technologies and ever increasingly manifest our fictional boundries. Right now we couldn't know if there are boundries to what we'll discover from what is called science/theory, that of many reasons we should never take for God for granted.

God*, Science*, Faith* (Honestly it's kind of a burden sometimes), what we don't know*, what we don't understand*, what we do and do not take for granted*.

I believe there are many shades, I'm very much afraid of God, and no one knows anything. and that is why i think i like so many is "maybe" a lost soul.

 

[Reishu]

Blind faith might be okay for others, but it isn't for me. My family has worked hard to try to reconcile faith and truth, and well... it seems that this is where I ended up because of it

The bible is a historical account (not always accurate, but still an account) of the Israelite culture pre-Jesus. As such, it has insights in some areas and lacks in others (however i'm of the opinion it only "lacks" because of cultural differences between then and now; their culture was philosophically advanced for the time)

I still find it hard for ID to reconcile the fact that people such as mystics exist. Under the hard-ass ID theory, those people are effectively ignored.

The ultimate truth should encompass every truth, should it not? Blind faith isn't the pursuit of truth or happiness, it's the following of others who pursued truth and happiness.

 

[Mattaru]

Rationalizing faith reminds me of this early christian existentialist named Soren Kierkegaard, if you are religious but like philosophy look into him. But as an existentialist he was one for the absurd, he does not rationalize faith, he says to rationalize faith or try to prove it logically to others only devalues the importance of faith, whether it does not seem logical or rational shouldn't matter for faith, its a seperate type of thinking. I'm not religious, but I still agree with Kierkegaard.

 

[Reishu]

Hmmm... people tend to overestimate what they don't understand, and the concept of "non-blind faith" is no different.

Most people would much rather have a sort of faith where nothing changes, nothing progresses, and nothing is challened on the basis of truth.

I'm not one of those people, but you're right, it's good enough for some others.

I fail to see how defining truth devalues faith. Personally i think that a proved faith would be more solid...

 

[Dejavu]

Rationalizing faith reminds me of this early christian existentialist named Soren Kierkegaard, if you are religious but like philosophy look into him. But as an existentialist he was one for the absurd, he does not rationalize faith, he says to rationalize faith or try to prove it logically to others only devalues the importance of faith, whether it does not seem logical or rational shouldn't matter for faith, its a seperate type of thinking. I'm not religious, but I still agree with Kierkegaard.

So... what your saying is don't question your faith cause you might not like what you find?

Seems... like a fan of blind faith to me.

 

[Reishu]

umm people believe in faith if it makes sense, i don't understand how you can rationalize faith and rationality as being completely different.

 

[Tyrion]

Most people would much rather have a sort of faith where nothing changes, nothing progresses, and nothing is challened on the basis of truth.

Thanks for phrasing it so well: those are the exact ideas that I find abhorrent.

"What is, is. What exists, exists. Wishes and whims are not facts, nor are they a means to discover them."
- Terry Goodkind, Faith of the Fallen.

 

[Anttaru]

I fail to see how defining truth devalues faith. Personally i think that a proved faith would be more solid...

Truth in it's purest form eliminates the very meaning of faith in any subject where faith is involved.

The truth can be a "yes" or a "no" either way, Faith will no longer play a role. Truth eats faith to a point where faith falls along side the word meaning " if "

"A Proved belief" (Which would be truth) in your case would not grant you and the rest of us faith. There is only one kind of Faith, and again the meaning is "To go blindly." To say "blind faith" is exactly the same term as just saying faith.

Truth devalues Faith. Not a good thing, not a bad thing.

 

[Reishu]

Truth in its purest form... Isn't that what perfection is? God is described as being perfect... at least perfect compared to us.

Ancient stories tell of two kinds of gods. One is the kind of god who is always improving, always progressing to be more perfect. The other is the kind of god who believes he's so perfect that there's nothing left to improve.

The latter became who we are told is Satan. The former is the God the old religions tell us to worship.

If God still improves, he has to have a basis for that improvement for the things which he does not yet know. (Faith?)

Another thing: you assume that all faith has to be blind faith to be faith.

How does a young child walk? They have faith. They see others do it, and they believe that they can do the same. Occasionally they fall over trying to put weight on a leg, but in time they learn how. Isn't that a validated faith? Yes, it's not blind faith, but it's not absolute truth either (how is the kid supposed to know all about neurons and muscles at that age?).

You say that Truth eats faith to a point where faith falls along side the word meaning "if". You are correct in a way, that's what happens to false faith. Not all faith is false though.

Truth devalues false faith. Truth gives detail and definition to a validated faith.

I merely put religion into the realm of validated faith.

 

[Sculli]

How does a young child walk? They have faith.

It's instinct, which doesn't really have anything to do with faith, unless you want to argue that a calf will walk because it believes it can do it.

 

[Reishu]

Sculli, if you argue my point, then let me post a different example.

How does a young child talk? They have faith. They see others do it, and they believe that they can do the same. Quite often they don't make any sense at all, but in time they learn how. Isn't that a validated faith? Yes, it's not blind faith, but it's not absolute truth either (how is the kid supposed to know all about neurons and muscles and vocal nuances at that age?).

 

[Courtney]

Faith (in a religious sense) is defined as:

"Belief that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence"

It's a completely different idea to seeing something occur, and then succeeding in emulating it...

 

[Reishu]

Different yes, but not unrelated.

 

[Reishu]

If anyone wishes to clarify what i've posted go ahead.

I'm sick of defending my point of view; I bring a good point of view to the table, and people ignore what i say to talk about the things nobody cares about.

 

[Courtney]

I think a lot of people have resopnded to your points and you've ingored them, rather than the other way around.

I'm sure that there's an absolute truth out there, but currently there's a lot left unexplained by all the the theories of creation/evolution. We don't know how life, or the universe were created. We have theories, but we don't know, we just know they're here now. Where there's no concrete proof of how something occurred, believing that you understand how it occurred is by definintion, faith.

And I think it's correct that proven faith becomes truth. However you can say that something is proven simply because it's logical... The world was logically very flat for all but the last few hundred years, but that didn't make it true.