Interesting view on religion

scrumpy said:
The bible has over 10,000 documents confirming the times/events that happened, and the New Testament isn't even a book, it's letters collected from the apostles sent to the cities they traveled to.

Now obviously i haven't seen or read any of these 10k documents supporting it, but i tend to believe those numbers over , oh say, .... there were less than 100 documents supported the stories of Julius Caesar (fun fact for the day) Yet we all believe this :shock:
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Documents mean nothing, although something is written down doesn't mean it actually happened. Its like saying if I were to write down "There was once a great war between mystical beings elves and gnomes" and somebody 300 million years later (hypothetically) found that document and actually believed me.

Not saying that the info in the bible did not happen, BUT the stories of Julius Caesar (the history) are not only supported by the documents but also supported by physical evidence that it actually happened. The history and existence of Julius Caesar can be proven by the country borders, change of culture etc.
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Strid said:
MY statement is purly opinional but when someone can PROVE all that stuff really happened I'll believe it. It's just like anything that happed before our existence. No one knows for sure they just have beliefs.
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Yup. Same reason they get mad when you call the bible fictional is the same reason we would get mad when they try to force the bible on to us.

Its that what we are preaching is not considered "proven" by all. ^^

Just pointing that out for you to hopefully keep an open mind.
 
For the record, there's a name for belief in God without belief in religion. It's deism. I'm a deist. Cool stuff.
 
Hronorigger said:
The history and existence of Julius Caesar can be proven by the country borders, change of culture etc.
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So does Jesus's.

I'm Catholic, and I agree with most things in the site. People have turned Jesus's teachings into ways of making money for themselves. My religion has done this before, but we have learned from our errors, that's how the world works, trial and error. Nobody really knows why God made us, "I'm lonely" doesn't cut it.

The whole of the Bible isn't real, a lot of the stories are fables, but the historical information is for the most part, if not the whole, accurate.

Adam and Eve... no one really knows. And, really, what does it matter? What matters is the moral of the story. Do not question God. But we are skeptical beings, which is why we fall so often into sin, even if it is such a silly thing as eating a fruit. (The Bible never said it was an apple.)

Jesus lived, died, and Resurrected. I can't bring up proof, I can only have assurance in my faith, if you can't understand this, I hope someday you will in some degree, not because you'll burn in hell, which I don't think you will just for not believing, but because I'd love for everyone to feel the love that fills me every morning when I wake up and thank God for all of the things I hold dear. And all of those things that haven't come to my hands.

No one should ever obligate another person to become a part of oneself's religion, on the contrary, that curiosity people have needs to be satiated. But, sadly, most people just want a superficial peek into religions, they only look at the people's expressions and the collection bins being passed out and not at the profound teachings that their foundations are based on.

You cannot form an opinion of a religion from just looking at one person, or one religion for that matter.

And, like Mr. XV said, which is what Jesus said: "Do unto others as you would have others do unto you."

Never dismiss faithful people as blind.
 
Having taken a (required) course on the bible, one of the things that you need to know is that the bible is not a history or science book. Some of the information is factual, but many figures are made up for purposes of hyperbole. Note symbolic numbers like 3, 7, 40 etc. The accounts are also, of course, extremely biased in favor of the Israelites.
 
Darkdante said:
Strid said:
MY statement is purly opinional but when someone can PROVE all that stuff really happened I'll believe it. It's just like anything that happed before our existence. No one knows for sure they just have beliefs.
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Yup. Same reason they get mad when you call the bible fictional is the same reason we would get mad when they try to force the bible on to us.

Its that what we are preaching is not considered "proven" by all. ^^

Just pointing that out for you to hopefully keep an open mind.
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You're wrong. Forcing an opinion is one thing and stating one is another. I never say it unless people ask what I think of it. After I say it I'm done while they try to push their shit into my brain. Being hypocritical to their own beliefs.
 
meh the only real problem i have with christianity is that im morally opposed to jesus's teachings. I believe youre responsible for your own actions, and christianity says you can let jesus abrogate your responsibility if you believe in him, and his sacrifice, and his ability to take the punishment for any wrongdoing you do... teaches in fact that he's already taken punishment for it... says all you have to do now is believe in him and do as he would have you do. I think jesus can keep his martyrdom to himself and i'll do what I think is right for the world I live in. I can handle the responsibility of being wrong - if I am.

In plain terms.. If a man rapes/kills/etc I think he should be punished - I dont think it would be right for someone else to take the punishment for his actions in his place, even if that person wanted to.
 
Excellent discussion so far. Some of you kids never cease to amaze me^^.
 
scrumpy said:
The bible has over 10,000 documents confirming the times/events that happened, and the New Testament isn't even a book, it's letters collected from the apostles sent to the cities they traveled to.

Now obviously i haven't seen or read any of these 10k documents supporting it, but i tend to believe those numbers over , oh say, .... there were less than 100 documents supported the stories of Julius Caesar (fun fact for the day) Yet we all believe this :shock:
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Well Scrumpy your my boy but.....
Timeline for the bible is from 4004BC to 550AD = 4560 years 10K pages.
Timeline for Ceasar is 69BC to 44BC = 15 years -100 pages.
 
Orchid said:
I believe youre responsible for your own actions, and christianity says you can let jesus abrogate your responsibility if you believe in him, and his sacrifice, and his ability to take the punishment for any wrongdoing you do... teaches in fact that he's already taken punishment for it... says all you have to do now is believe in him and do as he would have you do.
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I too believe you're responsible for your own actions; however, I still follow as best I can the teachings of Jesus. It's all really in how you interpret what it means to "believe in him, and his sacrifice, and his ability to take the punishment for any wrongdoing you do". A portion of his teaching that this overlooks is the concept of repentance, which means, quite literally, "to turn away".

I contend that anyone who chooses to repeatedly violate the tenets of Jesus's teachings is in fact, unrepentant and, therefore, unforgiven within the framework of Christian forgiveness.

That's the best explanation I've ever come up with for why Jesus would say, "Go and sin no more."
 
Tyran said:
scrumpy said:
The bible has over 10,000 documents confirming the times/events that happened, and the New Testament isn't even a book, it's letters collected from the apostles sent to the cities they traveled to.

Now obviously i haven't seen or read any of these 10k documents supporting it, but i tend to believe those numbers over , oh say, .... there were less than 100 documents supported the stories of Julius Caesar (fun fact for the day) Yet we all believe this :shock:
Click to expand...

Well Scrumpy your my boy but.....
Timeline for the bible is from 4004BC to 550AD = 4560 years 10K pages.
Timeline for Ceasar is 69BC to 44BC = 15 years -100 pages.
Click to expand...

Where did you come up with 4004BC, every thing I have ever read, dates the Old Testament as being written from 1500 B.C. to 400 B.C.
 
Went back and did some research and this is what ive come up with.

1656 years From creation week (if it was indeed a week) to the beginning of the flood (Genesis 5:1-32; 7:6; 11; 8:13-16)

The flood (2344) lasted one year and 7 days (Genesis 7:11; 8:14)

So 2344 + 1656 = 4000BC

But of course I could be wrong.... :oops:
 
Reauland said:
Orchid said:
I believe youre responsible for your own actions, and christianity says you can let jesus abrogate your responsibility if you believe in him, and his sacrifice, and his ability to take the punishment for any wrongdoing you do... teaches in fact that he's already taken punishment for it... says all you have to do now is believe in him and do as he would have you do.
Click to expand...

I too believe you're responsible for your own actions; however, I still follow as best I can the teachings of Jesus. It's all really in how you interpret what it means to "believe in him, and his sacrifice, and his ability to take the punishment for any wrongdoing you do". A portion of his teaching that this overlooks is the concept of repentance, which means, quite literally, "to turn away".

I contend that anyone who chooses to repeatedly violate the tenets of Jesus's teachings is in fact, unrepentant and, therefore, unforgiven within the framework of Christian forgiveness.

That's the best explanation I've ever come up with for why Jesus would say, "Go and sin no more."
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If jesus was punished already for sins yet to be committed (jesus got 3 days in hell.. less than the 96 hr penalty FFXI imposes for using windower) wouldnt that indicate that the amount of sin each person will do is precalculated? That the future is predestined? how then can anyone "sin" more or less than that predestiny allows? I think "Sinning" is a stupid term. It means doing something that god doesnt like. Personally, if there is a god, i'd hope he has broader issues to worry about than who is screwing whom down here or how.. or any of the other retarded rules and strictures the dogma of christianity preaches is god's law. Also.. your contention of whom is forgiven and who unforgiven is a common christian viewpoint. Grab one part of the bible and use it as a shield, and then retort with another part and use it as a weapon. If you can sin and be forgiven - or are forgiven before you even sin - then everyone else is too. Except me I guess. I refuse to be saved from myself.
 
Strid said:
Darkdante said:
Strid said:
MY statement is purly opinional but when someone can PROVE all that stuff really happened I'll believe it. It's just like anything that happed before our existence. No one knows for sure they just have beliefs.
Click to expand...

Yup. Same reason they get mad when you call the bible fictional is the same reason we would get mad when they try to force the bible on to us.

Its that what we are preaching is not considered "proven" by all. ^^

Just pointing that out for you to hopefully keep an open mind.
Click to expand...

You're wrong. Forcing an opinion is one thing and stating one is another. I never say it unless people ask what I think of it. After I say it I'm done while they try to push their shit into my brain. Being hypocritical to their own beliefs.
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The only reason you "feel" your being forced is because your on the recieving end. Its the same for them when they see or hear you say the things you say. I'm sure they "feel" they simply say their peace and let you be.

In actuality you can't "force" it down anybodys throat if they don't want you to. Nobody's holding that door open, and nobodys making you read it, But that wont stop peoples feelings being hurt on both sides of the fence either.

If parties on BOTH sides understood that, and stopped running around PREECHING well then maybe either side wouldn't feel they are being "forced" at all now would they?
 
Hi Orchid :)

I may not have done the best job of getting my point across. What I mean is I believe that we are responsible for our own actions in much the same way that Karma functions. And if you step back and look at what Jesus himself is purported to have said, it bears some rather striking similarities to Buddhism. That's what I meant by "his teachings" - what he said in the Gospels minus the dogmatic law contained in the other books of the New Testament.

I equate most of the Bible to the world's longest poem - full of symbolism and very much open to individual interpretation.

And as far as a lot of the rules that many of those who consider themselves Christians seem to be so uptight over, I have only this to say:

If Jesus was, in fact, the Son of God (which I personally believe), why would anyone have ever thought they had the authority to impose yet more rules after he had already said, in essence, "You guys know all those rules you've been following for centuries now? I'm here to fulfill them. No more need for sacrifices and weird rules to prove your devotion and faith. I'm taking care of it. Now all you have to do is be good to one another and walk as close a path to mine as you can."

That's about as close as I can come in writing to my own beliefs.
 
"You guys know all those rules you've been following for centuries now? I'm here to fulfill them. No more need for sacrifices and weird rules to prove your devotion and faith. I'm taking care of it. Now all you have to do is be good to one another and walk as close a path to mine as you can."
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/clap

Jesus came to make people realize that there was no reason to follow hypocrites. That old laws would be gone, and only His 2 laws would hold any ground, "Love God above all else", and "Do unto others as you would have others do unto you." Of course, our forefathers thought upon themselves to branch these laws, and that's why some of the other books in the New Testament were written, as are the Cathechism (I'm not sure if this is how it's spelled in English) teachings, too.

In other words, all you have to do is know that God is there, and love him. And show that love by loving others, because you're not the only person that God made. And, you love others by being good to them. Strangers aren't strangers under God, so love your strangers, love your enemies, because they'll make you a better person in that love.
 
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