poles = polls
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Kalendor said:
hahaha ;P
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Firestreak said:
The polls weren't fucked, it was close near the election, and a lot of people who might have been polled might not have voted. The fact is no one wanted kerry OR bush in office, so people just defaulted to bush. I'm not going to debate on how he got elected, or argue with you about everything that Bush has done that I don't agree with, or tell you that the Michael Moore argument is overrated because you can aargue with back at that with some Bill OReily shit, but damn man, the guy has fucked a LOT of people over, and you can't deny that. YOU might not disapprove of him, YOU might not be affected by his policies or decisions or laws because you're a republican douchebag, but not everyone in this country is a fox news moore whore who believes everything they read or see. People have their damn reasons and their facts and their proof and even though YOU dont see that shit happen to you PERSONALLY it doesn't mean it hasn't happened and it doesnt mean that a good fucking portion of this country and the world have been FUCKED by him.
To think that people don't have a reason for being angry at this president and should just shut up and that everything is fine is pretty much an indicator that you are really living your life blind to a lot of issues and a lot of things that happen in this world. If thats how you want to live, fine, but don't talk shit to the people who can see past their fucking basement window and can't fucking stand what direction this country has been pushed in.
I fucking hate americans for that shit. You're too stupid or lazy to ask questions and just assume that you're right. Your arguments for Bush being a great guy have nothing to do with anything else other than your taxes or your home life. Look at the big fucking picture instead of your return check. The world doesn't revolve around you or me and you republican shit for brains who think Bush is good for this country I really think have some kind of blockade in your brain that filters out common sense and only lets in selfish ideals that ignore half of your country's ideals.
I'm not saying that democrats are all right. I'm not saying that republicans are wrong. I AM saying that BOTH parties need to start listening to each other and build a common ground because of how divided all this shit is. Any president who fails to see how fucking divided this country is and is willing to look at both sides of the story before sticking to their god driven morals is NOT doing their job. I stand by that.
you democrat shit for brains who think Bush is bad for this country I really think have some kind of blockade in your brain that filters out common sense and only lets in selfish ideals that ignore half of your country's ideals. See the inverse works just as well when you fail to give reason to back up your statements. :lol:
Anyone who has taken a statistics or psychology course can tell how polls and survey's of the exact same issue and from the same sample base can give completly conflicting results. Take all of them with a grain of salt and good measure of skeptism.
This is starting to look like the America votes thread right after Bush won. :lol: I thought everyone moved to Canada by now.
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Rones said:
I know it works both ways. Thats why its called an opinion. I didn't give reasons for my statements because this topic has been covered over and over again (falsey's hijacked political thread, america votes, etc) and by this point most of my reasons have been covered, and debated, and chewed up and spit out on both sides. No reason to go through the whole factual debate all over again when I know that a lot of people, on both sides, dems and republicans, don't really take into consideration either's argument, they just want to fight it back.
I also stated that I don't think much higher of democrats either. I personally find republicans more annoying, stubborn, and wrong in their stances than dems because of the fact that they are more conservative and my views match more to the democratic side.. The reason I took this topic OUT on the republicans is because Firestreak is a douchebag and I found his comments assinine and pretentious.
I'm not saying they were perfect. I'm saying that not every poll is going to be the exact opposite of what it shows. The polls didn't show Kerry winning by a huge margin. I don't think that they're an excellent base for an argument, but can be used to back up an argument along with other pieces of evidence.
Honestly my main issue is basically I think its immature and unrealistic to think that the person in charge of this country is doing a good job in the current situation we're in based on issues like getting a little more money in your paycheck (hello national debt and underfunding for military) and your God is diving this country (hey, imagine that, god is on our side kids, awesome.). Had Bush been a democrat (and no I'm not one of the people who thinks that Clinton was the end all to what a good president should be) I would feel the same way.
Mokk said:
Since this was partially directed at me, I thought that I would respond…
Zuri said:
If I’m not mistaken, which I could be since I rarely agree with Vang, I believe the above quote was the reasoning behind his comment.
Comparing George W Bush or even Vang to Hitler is an insult to the atrocity that Jews endured. I see this comment as nothing more then a weak attempt for Zuri to get in their own personal views about a president they don’t like. We are talking about bigotry here, not political beliefs.
As far as political beliefs go, I could care less what Zuri likes or doesn’t like. I could care less what anyone likes or doesn’t like for that matter, as long as their views don’t affect me. It is not my place to dictate what others should believe. The fact that Zuri doesn’t like GWB does not affect others. I just happened to agree with Vang that this thread was really not the place to start that argument.
As for Alyssan’s bigoted and ignorant remarks, I feel like this issue has been talked to death, hence not posting anything on it to begin with. Who is to blame for this growing ignorance? I really have no idea. I still don’t understand why people find it reasonable to condemn a whole group of people based on the actions of a few. Perhaps it is just easier to hate rather then attempt to understand. Really, who fucking knows?
Finally, just so you know, I’m not on the bandwagon that’s racing yours.
The point is people are attempting to use these poll results as an argument that nobody likes Bush, and to say that people don't like him. I don't need a poll to know who the president is. He is the president because the people who gave enough of a shit to actually vote, voted for him. Omg 12 year old Johny Reddenbacher can answer a poll, or dumb ass who doesn't pay attention to politics, doesn't know what's going on and(thanksfully) doesn't voke will agree that because his friend Sally hates Bush, he does too and is willing to put that down in a poll.
Omg, omg, ring ring, the Democrats can see now that Bush shouldn't be president, because some idiot who doesn't even vote doesn't approve of him, regardless that he doesn't even know anything because he's a stupid piece of shit. BUT DON'T LET THAT HINDER YOUR ARGUMENT!!! WE ALL KNOW POLLS ARE A BETTER JUDGE OF WHAT AMERICA WANTS THAN A DAMN ELECTION!!!
Omg, omg, ring ring, the Democrats can see now that Bush shouldn't be president, because some idiot who doesn't even vote doesn't approve of him, regardless that he doesn't even know anything because he's a stupid piece of shit. BUT DON'T LET THAT HINDER YOUR ARGUMENT!!! WE ALL KNOW POLLS ARE A BETTER JUDGE OF WHAT AMERICA WANTS THAN A DAMN ELECTION!!!
M
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Mokk said:
Go Go Gadget Hijack ... apperantly
I love it when people skip over the meat and bones of a post about political view and jump right to clinton ... not that i expect many innovations from republicans
Btw, you guys' normal excuse about how it's all the president however many years ago fault doesn't hold water, by your standards reganomics is responsible to 0 deficit during clinton's term and if you buy that i got a bridge i'd like to sell you >.>lib·er·al:
1. Not limited to or by established, traditional, orthodox, or authoritarian attitudes, views, or dogmas; free from bigotry.
2. Favoring proposals for reform, open to new ideas for progress, and tolerant of the ideas and behavior of others; broad-minded.
3. Of, relating to, or characteristic of liberalism.
4. Liberal Of, designating, or characteristic of a political party founded on or associated with principles of social and political liberalism, especially in Great Britain, Canada, and the United States.
1. Tending to give freely; generous: a liberal benefactor.
2. Generous in amount; ample: a liberal serving of potatoes.
Not strict or literal; loose or approximate: a liberal translation.
Of, relating to, or based on the traditional arts and sciences of a college or university curriculum: a liberal education.
Bite my open-minded, generous, biggotry-free, non-conformist, reformist, educated ass.
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Firestreak said:
I'm sure firestreak knows more than the national media or a polling organization that's been around for damn near ever....
THE POINT is regardless of YOUR opinion the history books and people 10 generations down the line are gonna consider this guy quite possibly the worst president ever based on domestic policy, foreign policy, and fiscal performance. I'd say the same thing if a democrat or independant were in office, how hard is it to not get your underwear up your ass over the fact that someone who exibits ineptitude in a job makes people mad .. i suppose you'd be ok with a leper working at subway too.
We are skipping your posts Mokk because we know you. I have seen many of the threads you jump into. You love to make yourself a Target and stir up people. Your goal isn't real discussion, just to flare emotions and disagree. You claim a lot, but you don't back it up in hopes no one else will take the time to actually prove you wrong or it is so vague that it can't be proved wrong. Case in point:
Stop trying to waste peoples time.
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You can go all the way back to LBJ and make a case for any of those to be the 'worst president ever' but that doesn't make it true. Reagan went from being considered one of the most polarized and disliked presidents in history to someone considered one of the greatest Americans ever.
Bush has got a long, long way to eclipse Jimmy Carter if you even want to make a case for the worst president of the last 30 years.
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Firestreak said:
I dont need a poll either. I just need to talk to the people I work with and deal with every day, and the people I know (who amazingly don't all agree with me politically but don't agree with Bush's curent policies.) I agree with you, again, that polls should not be a complete basis for the truth, but the general consensus of the people I know, even those who voted for him that I know, didn't think that things would end up this way. I mean its not much different than it was before he took office the second time, but nothing has changed, and I think they're starting to see that. Thats why I felt I had to post. Its not just the polls, its the general public. Using the polls, well that just turns into a weak argument. You're right.
Firestreak said:
oh dont be a dick. They didn't want him to be president in the first place. Americans just arent informed enough and the candidates aren't giving enough solid answers (I mean honestly, in the last debates, they both did everything they COULD to ignore the issues on BOTH sides) to form an EDUCATED decision. The government and the media are screwed, and thats what we're dealing with now. No one trusted Kerry. The only reason people voted for him is because they didnt want bush in office. Honestly, i hated the guy. But I hate Bush more.
And thats just sad. You vote for the guy that you hate less. Ew. Love this place. LOVE IT.
What the Panda said >_>
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do i think the bush is the worst pres ever tho? nah. I'll give him that. There has been many presidents who suck. Its just real to us now and not in the history books. Most of us grew up in the clinton era, and thats what we're used to. We don't care to look back and see everything else that was done before hand.
Is he the worst pres I've ever been exposed to? Yeah. But the worst pres ever? Meh. I'm sure MAD people have fucked this country up before that.
w/e.
Is he the worst pres I've ever been exposed to? Yeah. But the worst pres ever? Meh. I'm sure MAD people have fucked this country up before that.
w/e.
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Panda said:
This is the biggest problem, I think. Clinton was the popular, big smile, easy/quick fix president, and for the climate of the 90's it worked. Consequently, when we move onto a time where success is based on the long-term and not the short-term, we have people who remember how easy things were under Clinton screaming for Bush's head. I believe that time is going to improve Bush's reputation, not degrade it. Remember - a lot of the North hated Lincoln too. Not saying Bush is anywhere near the level of Lincoln, but time can have a very positive effect on the decisions our leaders make.
<_< Random thought....Did any else notice the derailment of this topic? I mean. Jesus. We went from "Yeah PT's get mad when you leave." to a completely other topic "Yeah George W." o_o;;
This by far, is one of the worst derailments I've seen in a while.
This by far, is one of the worst derailments I've seen in a while.
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Rones said:
Luckily your interpretations of my posts mean very little to me, rones. Usually i have nothing but respect for your contributions to threads and the fact that on average you know damn near everything.
However in this instance you couldn't be further from the truth. Thread got derailed, vang made himself a url=http://redwing.hutman.net/%7Emreed/warriorshtm/target.htm]Target[/url], i responded with reasonable statements without emoing all over the thread as i've been attempting to stem that attitude as of late. I love that you'd stop to take a pot-shot at me and mention nothing about the folks who derailed the thread in the first place or at least being partial enough to make statement in firestreak's posts as usually every contriubution he makes is to stir shit up with panda.
I claimed nothing but my personal ideals and backed it up with factual information which i researched myself, our current president has a worse approval rating than LBJ. My comment about the worst president in history was based on my personal opinions and the facts i researched, not much way it can be proven wrong.
Flat out all i did was respond to vang's criticism with tangible information, then respond to firestreak's comments. If you've got something to prove about my posts please go ahead and do it otherwise stop wasting my time. Personally i believe in this thread they speak for themselves.
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stupid tags 