Job Adjustments and Additions Part II (03/30/2009)

Um.. 160 loss of MP is really not a big deal, especially because that's your fault not SE's. It's easily avoidable and most people fail at this because they: DONT PAY ATTENTION.
 
Or because some idiot that isn't the SMN and has nothing to do with the SMN causes the mob to move half a foot away from the avatar.
 
This is the bane of melee. You know this also. Mage casts something that pulls hate. Mob moves, there goes your TP.

Correct em both if they're gonna fix one.
 
Only read first couple pages in. As with all updates, there are people who are excited, and people who are disapointed/aggrivated. WHM gets a lot of competition for healing slots from RDMs, and I'm sure from SCH as well, so they needed the boost. Boosting SMN BP range is a much needed fix, glad to see it. It will be interesting to see how much of a boost the merit BPs will get. As far as RDM, if everyone remembers, I'm pretty sure SE has been attempting to make melee RDM viable, which means these updates are their attempt to lead into that.
 
Zoolander said:
Then don't fuck up when you BP.

Only a select few jobs can complain about job updates, SMN and RDM are not one of them.
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Slacar09 said:
Um.. 160 loss of MP is really not a big deal, especially because that's your fault not SE's. It's easily avoidable and most people fail at this because they: DONT PAY ATTENTION.
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SMN complain out of frustration with promises the developers have yet to see through and players not understanding the strong points and short comings of the job; as all jobs have. And SMN can only start a BP when they are in fact paying attention.

Langly mentions hate control, or the lack thereof, will move a mob and affects melee and mages alike. It is not SE's, nor the SMN's, fault. The player that drew hate when they shouldn't have, dependent upon the situation, is to blame. The most costly a BP is 182MP+prep. Loosing shy of 200MP every 46 seconds due to poor hate control is significant. The SMN can no longer contribute to the fight when hate control is lost.

Langly said:
This is the bane of melee. You know this also. Mage casts something that pulls hate. Mob moves, there goes your TP.

Correct em both if they're gonna fix one.
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Agreed. But....
The difference is melee recoups TP through attacking the mob. SMN, and all mage jobs for that matter, primarily recoup MP through resting. Its is easier and quicker for melee to regain lost TP by staying engaged with the mob. SMN doesn't have the benefit of regaining lost MP during a fight, unless they withdraw their avatar. Though I do agree it would be nice to see a "no complete action, no loss/cost" applied to all jobs. But I'm not holding my breath.

Ewok said:
As with all updates, there are people who are excited, and people who are disapointed/aggrivated.
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This.
 
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the only reason I'll agree with summoners that there's an issue is that unless they manually walk their summon up(and go within AOE ranges) their summon defaults to attacking at max range so any movement can mess them up, a simple AI change where they default to attacking a little closer could easily solve this to be on par with other melees.
 
Rari said:
The difference is melee recoups TP through attacking the mob. SMN, and all mage jobs for that matter, primarily recoup MP through resting. Its is easier and quicker for melee to regain lost TP by staying engaged with the mob. SMN doesn't have the benefit of regaining lost MP during a fight, unless they withdraw their avatar. Though I do agree it would be nice to see a "no complete action, no loss/cost" applied to all jobs. But I'm not holding my breath.
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Outside of soloing, how often do you keep your avatar out for long periods of time? If you sub SCH, you can get up to ~500 MP every 5 minutes with sublimation + elemental syphon (since that update, don't think I ever had to rest in Limbus, lol), which helps with MP burdens.

Also, some don't know this, but if you hit /pet "attack" <t> right after activating a BP, the avatar will actually move with the mob during a BP, cutting down the chances for your BP to miss. Like some have stated, I don't think it's an issue with the job, more just an obsticle to overcome. Outside of not giving us a new avatar(s), SE has really hooked us up in the past 1-2 years. Splitting BPs, elemental syphon, allowing us to effect the duration of buffs with magic skill, hell even the way we obtain skillups. Let the WHMs have their long deserved update. The only thing SMNs should be complaining about is no new avatars, lol.


Zaltana said:
i wonder if people will ever be satisfied.
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Nope, lol. How's that saying go, you can please some of the people some of the time, but you can't please all of the people all of the time?
 
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I was just illustrating the difference between loss of TP and loss of MP and how they are regained. No complaints here. I never said that the avatar is kept out for long periods. Only that to recoup MP, you have to dismiss it. Slacar09 stated the lost MP from a failed BP isn't significant. I don't agree nor do I believe he's had first hand experience with the situation. (ie. leveled the job to understand a SMN's POV).

Whether a SMN calls and dismisses or leaves their avatar out, MP spent on a BP that doesn't land (BP:R or BP:W) is wasted. Again, it would be nice (though doubtful to see happen) if there was a "No TP/MP loss for uncompleted actions" implemented.

You can't rely on SMN to use Sublimation as that depends on the subjob chosen. I agree though that SE has made great improvements to SMN over the years. Splitting the BP's made a world of difference. (I think I was in the 50's then.) And Elemental Siphon made SMN change their pants twice that day.
 
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Again, it would be nice (though doubtful to see happen) if there was a "No TP/MP loss for uncompleted actions" implemented.
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I can see this. Look at spell casts. They stop if something runs out of range; no MP loss.

Weapon skills/bloodpacts do not. What's funny is, you get a "Unable to see <t>" if you're turned to the left or right, yet if it's in front of you but just too far away you will still try to weapon skill and ... kaput. 0%.

Though if they fixed this then it'd probably double for mobs too. And isn't that part of the reason why we kite? So we make the mobs attempt tp moves and yet they just can't hit us with them? :)
 
Langly said:
Though if they fixed this then it'd probably double for mobs too. And isn't that part of the reason why we kite? So we make the mobs attempt tp moves and yet they just can't hit us with them? :)
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That's probably why it'll never be altered. If TP didn't get lost from a target getting out of range, a mob would end up readying their move again as soon as they got back in range. You'd get a nonstop cycle of stand, run, stand, run, stand, run until it was killed, someone pulled hate, or had it's TP removed from a spell or ability.

Then again, mobs getting excluded from changes isn't so strange. DRG mobs still using Call Wyvern as their 2 Hour, for example.
 
Langly said:
I can see this. Look at spell casts. They stop if something runs out of range; no MP loss.

Weapon skills/bloodpacts do not. What's funny is, you get a "Unable to see <t>" if you're turned to the left or right, yet if it's in front of you but just too far away you will still try to weapon skill and ... kaput. 0%.

Though if they fixed this then it'd probably double for mobs too. And isn't that part of the reason why we kite? So we make the mobs attempt tp moves and yet they just can't hit us with them? :)
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big diffrence is atleast melee ws are about a sec to use. For smn mob has stay put for 15 sec. anouther thing on list need be fix is pet stopping ward move because mob died if avatar is engaged to mob.

matchuu said:
wernt all those merited BP weak as hell? If they increase its dmg which would be the better of them?
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ya, but they are magic dmg, and suppostly do well if merited fully and ma acc/atk merits. personally prefer to stick with the lvl 70 bp.
 
big diffrence is atleast melee ws are about a sec to use. For smn mob has stay put for 15 sec...
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Umm what? I know you probably mean that it takes time to > summon > engage > bloodpact and sure I can see that.

But honestly it doesn't take 15 seconds to /pet "Predator Claws" <t> something. lol You're silly.
 
No, Hellstorm is referring to the lag in between using the blood pact and the BP going off, which is far from instant.. it's like 5 seconds or so, whereas melee WS are nearly instant.
 
Tagrineth said:
No, Hellstorm is referring to the lag in between using the blood pact and the BP going off, which is far from instant.. it's like 5 seconds or so, whereas melee WS are nearly instant.
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And lag/packet loss can kill a Weapon Skill.

Lag/packet loss can't kill a Blood Pact, since it's all done server side.
 
Is that why there's the 'Blood Pact Ability Delay -' gear? Or.. I'm mistaken. Does that stuff even effect that delay?
 
Langly said:
Is that why there's the 'Blood Pact Ability Delay -' gear? Or.. I'm mistaken. Does that stuff even effect that delay?
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It effects the recast, not the delay between telling the avatar to do something and them actually doing it.
 
Thanks Baj, learned somethin new today.
 
Neisan said:
While quite powerful, it also hasn't gotten any adjustments or new abilities/spells in... several years if I recall correctly. Oh well, could be worse could be footwork.
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I was actually afraid of any adjustments made to RDM. You know how adjustments doesn't mean we're gonna like it..... and I'm always of the opinion that if ever SE were to make adjustments to RDM, it'd be to nerf RDM.

Anyway, I saw the RDM in the title photo, hyperventilated and then when I read the adjustments it was..... er.... umm... I'm just glad the adjustments didn't go badly.
 
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