Job Adjustments and more

[Lavi]

This was what my original posting was in reference to. I know it doesn't specifically say cannons, but its fairly well implied.

Again, no one said or hinted at removing cannons. SE cannot do it unless they completely nerf cannons which at this current state, would require a very drastic retooling of the game. Pretty much everyone knows this, even Khajit. All he was saying was that there are some decent SC that can be done with a THF and possibly other jobs, it's just that they're not commonly used. Sometimes it's beneficial, mostly not. You're making a whole lot of something out of a whole lot of nothing.

And by the way, wasn't ranger the original cannon job?

 

[Bajaratt]

Actually, I didn't specifically mean cannons, but cannons are an extension of what I was talking about. I still wouldn't invite a blm to a normal party when I could get a decent melee job(not lolpup) to fill the role; so I sure as hell wouldn't waste a cannon slot on a BLM. Just for the record, I wouldn't invite a THF to my parties either, unless their name was necrosis; so the fact that thieves can skill chain well with a samurai doesn't matter when they're not going to be given the opportunity.

And Khajit, SAM's do gekko almost exclusively when going for pure damage. When they do another weapon skill, 95% of the time it's because they're doing a skillchain, the rest is they just want to see a weapon skill other then gekko. It's the strongest of the weapon skills, that's why they go for it.

When I party on sam nowadays I have to sub nin, for the exact same reason my monk subs nin; so that I don't drain all of my whm's mp in a few fights. Hell, the leader of my fan club(shaunessy) even came back to quetz(made a mule, but still, he was here) to complement me on my sub job choice and tell me how sorry he was for acting like a retard and admitted that I was better than him. All because I was smart enough to go sam/nin for the good of my party.

 

[jamal]

Again, no one said or hinted at removing cannons. SE cannot do it unless they completely nerf cannons which at this current state, would require a very drastic retooling of the game. Pretty much everyone knows this, even Khajit. All he was saying was that there are some decent SC that can be done with a THF and possibly other jobs, it's just that they're not commonly used. Sometimes it's beneficial, mostly not. You're making a whole lot of something out of a whole lot of nothing.

And by the way, wasn't ranger the original cannon job?

Sure was, and they got nerfed.

Khajit has posted 3 times in the last week directly targetting posts of mine trying to find disagreements. Much like you have in the past. Lurking for inconsistancies. If he's gonna try to find inconsistancies like you did, he will, like you, get the book thrown at him.

If he would do like he should and not respond against my opinions, or add contstructive comments to them, then I wouldn't care. The hell if I'm gonna listen to his gimpass telling me I'm wrong from the 0 experience he brings to the table. Everything he has is hearsay, everything I have is tested and proven.

If you note my first post, I said it wouldn't completely solve the problem, but was an idea for a start.

 

[Khajit]

I have a difference of option and try to discuss it. It's obvious that trying to have any sort of civil conversation is the first sign of a stalker. You said there arnet any good ws that SC with each other. I said there were. You asked for me to answer skaws comment and I did to which you responded with "fuck you" essentially because I answered it the best I could.

EDIT: graphy little pic from bG to explain why i said they dont make any difference at the end. (although the situations i was thinking of were based on ideal meat+ minuet/chaos buffs being on.) I took my statement that the 3 ws are all the same from rukeshins LJ. That's alot of reading to wade through so I hope you'll forgive me for not trying to find out the exact spot of it.)

 

[jamal]

I have a difference of option and try to discuss it. It's obvious that trying to have any sort of civil conversation is the first sign of a stalker. and since everything i have to say is heresay then The skillchain charts are all worthless since they must not be true when I listed off SCable ws.( arent skillchain resist rates being lowered too anyway?)

You mentioned thf's when I said cannons. STOP POSTING. Or, better yet, don't quote me if you want to bring up those points. Instead, say "On the other hand, I think THF wouldn't benefit from this". Your skillchain charts didn't mention ANY skillchains for Rampage, Asuran Fists, and Blade: Jin together. I'm still waiting for those. Please do tell what your great skillchain charts can come up with.

I was making a pointed conversation, you leaped 4 pages of discussion to disagree with me. THAT is stalking.

 

[Khajit]

You mentioned thf's when I said cannons. STOP POSTING. Or, better yet, don't quote me if you want to bring up those points. Instead, say "On the other hand, I think THF wouldn't benefit from this". Your skillchain charts didn't mention ANY skillchains for Rampage, Asuran Fists, and Blade: Jin together. I'm still waiting for those. Please do tell what your great skillchain charts can come up with.

I was making a pointed conversation, you leaped 4 pages of discussion to disagree with me. THAT is stalking.

So asuran fists-->blade jin isnt a lv 2 or higher skillchain?

Samurai aren't cannon material yet despite the fact that SE is going to nerf them? The argument was that the skillchains do exist, not that it's a great idea to do them.
If one considers howling fist to be decent after the upgrade the HF-> rampage if you somehow endup in a situation where you actually could Sc with both players at 100-110 tp and the mob didnt have resistance(which is unlikely happen which i already admitted).
The tigers in woajam didnt resist a single skillchain last time I smacked em around and that added 700-1k extra damage during occasions where both me and the sam had tp stored up and we opened at the start.(we stored tp when using a ws would have been a waste and meditate timers were mostly in synch. I was testing out /sam at lv 60, there was too much healing in the pt already and in the proper conditions for a pt[aka they arent gimp or ws when they have tp to share hate more] you get hit 1-2 times max pre seigan)
With lowered SC rsistance being added by SE I do see putting little inpromtu skillchains in those rare situations together by players with a decent meorization of the chart as a way of adding in more damage.

 

[Bajaratt]

EDIT: graphy little pic from bG to explain why i said they dont make any difference at the end. (although the situations i was thinking of were based on ideal meat+ minuet/chaos buffs being on.) I took my statement that the 3 ws are all the same from rukeshins LJ. That's alot of reading to wade through so I hope you'll forgive me for not trying to find out the exact spot of it.)

That's a rather stupid observation to have made, really. The strength of Gekko is that it has an attack bonus on it, that's why it's more powerful than the other weapon skills; no shit when you have capped your attack, it no longer wins out, because that attack bonus no longer does anything. That's also very rare circumstances that you're not likely to get often enough to matter.

So yeah, if you cap your attack, they're the same(Kasha is the best then for it's accuracy); but if you live in the real world, Gekko > all.

 

[K. Ishitar]

lol, but seriously, hitting for 1 gives mob nore tp, and you're not even doin "OK" damage to make up for the tp given.

Only way you MIGHT see a rdm melee is if they make it so rdm doesn't give ANY tp to the mob, then IF you are good on mp, you can melee.

as much responsibility as a rdm has in a pt, I highly doubt it'd change much and since there are around a dozen or more jobs that do melee damage much better with job abilities such as zerk, boost, hasso,etc. it'd probrably be an ineffective boost unless it was geared twoard the lower level base judging from the way it was said they want it to apply to the high level base, which again seems very unlikely considering the lack of healing at my level and onwards.

It'd probrably only help us solo better but hell I'm not complaining I love soloing



Edit: To Baj- seeing NugoTugo flying while doing a gekko> all=3


tarus look kick ass when they do gekko and asuran

 

[Bajaratt]

So asuran fists-->blade jin isnt a lv 2 or higher skillchain?
Samurai arent cannon material yet despite the fact that SE is going to nerf them? The argument was that the skillchains do exist, not that it's a great idea to do them.

It's fusion, which would only be useful against goblins. You can't even exp off them at 75, can you?

No one ever said skill chains didn't exist, only that they were a waste of time to do because they did not do anywhere near as much damage as just spamming WS. The skillchains suck, therefore no one does them; we know they exist and how to do them, they're just not worth our time/exp.

 

[jamal]

So asuran fists-->blade jin isnt a lv 2 or higher skillchain?
Samurai arent cannon material yet despite the fact that SE is going to nerf them? The argument was that the skillchains do exist, not that it's a great idea to do them.

I never mentioned SAM. I asked for Cannon WS's to be used to create light skillchains, that was all. I said it was a start to a fix, that is all.

After this post, you said your thf can take a rampage and use evisceration. I don't give a fuck what your thf can do, I wouldn't be partying with you.

Back to my original point, if I have 100 tp, and a MNK is waiting at 75%tp, why should I wait to skillchain when there is no benefit from it. That is ALL i was saying.

 

[Khajit]

Back to my original point, if I have 100 tp, and a MNK is waiting at 75%tp, why should I wait to skillchain when there is no benefit from it. That is ALL i was saying.

You dont. I didnt say you should. If I had 90 tp and you had 100 and your ws could be skillchained with something decent I have and the moster didnt resist what was availiable I would make a snap descision and use a ws that might do 200 damage less but make a skillchain doing 500-1k damage instead. The argument was that SC do exist. not that is was a great Idea to hold back on tp exclusively for them anyway. I already typed that down somewhere. You said there there are no SC. I said there were and that gave reasons as well why it's not practical to use them. One of which was that getting 2 dd with the exact same tp gain or have tp ready at the same time or to within 3 seconds is of each other is almost impossible.

EDIT: to baja. I expect 2 handers to eat meat and I dont merit without a brd unless i need buffer badly so I really dont expect someone to have low atk on any 2 hander nowadays.

 

[Bajaratt]

You dont. I didnt say you should. If I had 90 tp and you had 100 and your ws could be skillchained with something decent I have and the moster didnt resist what was availiable I would make a snap descision and use a ws that might do 200 damage less but make a skillchain doing 500-1k damage instead. The argument was that SC do exist. not that is was a great Idea to hold back on tp exclusively for them anyway. I already typed that down somewhere.

EDIT: to baja. I expect 2 handers to eat meat and I dont merit without a brd unless i need buffer badly so I really dont expect someone to have low atk on any 2 hander nowadays.

No, they don't have low attack, but they don't have capped attack either.

 

[Khajit]

No, they don't have low attack, but they don't have capped attack either.

True enough. I think expected sams to be higher than they were atk wise. I think it was all the reports from random D2H DD saying they had 900+ atk right after the patch without mentioning that they did so on drk(or drg with zerk?)

 

[jamal]

You dont. I didnt say you should. If I had 90 tp and you had 100 and your ws could be skillchained with something decent I have and the moster didnt resist what was availiable I would make a snap descision and use a ws that might do 200 damage less but make a skillchain doing 500-1k damage instead. The argument was that SC do exist. not that is was a great Idea to hold back on tp exclusively for them anyway. I already typed that down somewhere. You said there there are no SC. I said there were and that gave reasons as well why it's not practical to use them. One of which was that getting 2 dd with the exact same tp gain or have tp ready at the same time or to within 3 seconds is of each other is almost impossible.

EDIT: to baja. I expect 2 handers to eat meat and I dont merit without a brd unless i need buffer badly so I really dont expect someone to have low atk on any 2 hander nowadays.

And you didn't add anything by saying that then. Like I said before, stop posting. I don't care if you can make that snap decision, because the SC's are useless when compared to the overall damage that is being lost by performing them. You're giving a whole hypothetical diotribe on something that is pointless to discuss.

 

[Mariox]

mmm, new spells to make red mage a front line job... lets see... Engod adds 100 additional damage. A spell to add +20 acc? a spell to add +50 attack?

Can't SE realize that Red mage is not a front line job? Not even my Excalibur can make a rdm a front line job.

I'v not checked whm boards yet, but if thay not complaining that scholer gets Raise 2, then why hasn't rdm have it yet? I'd take Raise 2 over any small spell to increass gimp melee damage.

 

[beeznuts]

mmm, new spells to make red mage a front line job... lets see... Engod adds 100 additional damage. A spell to add +20 acc? a spell to add +50 attack?

Can't SE realize that Red mage is not a front line job? Not even my Excalibur can make a rdm a front line job.

I'v not checked whm boards yet, but if thay not complaining that scholer gets Raise 2, then why hasn't rdm have it yet? I'd take Raise 2 over any small spell to increass gimp melee damage.

Just like how BLU will not ever be a "melee mage" because no such thing exists, and SE cannot possibly do such a thing in any way because the two are mutually exclusive?

There's no way to know whether or not the changes they implement will make RDM worthwhile as a frontline/meleemage class until they implement them.

 

[Clocian]

Just like how BLU will not ever be a "melee mage" because no such thing exists, and SE cannot possibly do such a thing in any way because the two are mutually exclusive?

There's no way to know whether or not the changes they implement will make RDM worthwhile as a frontline/meleemage class until they implement them.

?????

 

[beeznuts]

?????

When BLU came out, people were saying it was completely unpossible, just because "look at RDM! It'll have to be one or the other!". It was a rather uninformed opinion formed before any information or testing could be done on the job. A lot of the attitude was that of "BLU will be a mage, and it will never be on the front line, ever, because it is a mage."

 

[Clocian]

When BLU came out, people were saying it was completely unpossible, just because "look at RDM! It'll have to be one or the other!". It was a rather uninformed opinion formed before any information or testing could be done on the job. A lot of the attitude was that of "BLU will be a mage, and it will never be on the front line, ever, because it is a mage."

O, ya lol. QFT

 

[Sanjo Renomitsu]

Just like how BLU will not ever be a "melee mage" because no such thing exists, and SE cannot possibly do such a thing in any way because the two are mutually exclusive?

There's no way to know whether or not the changes they implement will make RDM worthwhile as a frontline/meleemage class until they implement them.

Madness.




And they're not really exclusive. But I doubt the changes will make them a meleemage, its probably just something that will allow groups to lower their heads in defeat when they see a rdm meleeing. Maybe an en spell that increases accuracy an converts damage delt into mp or something like that. En spells that add status effects? Something like that I suppose.