John Stossel's "You Can't Even Talk About It"

[Dejavu]

Recently there was a very interesting piece on 20/20 where John Stossel argues for the re-evaluation of certain policies that are so controversial that it is generally accepted that you cannot even have an honest conversation about the topic.


The first clip is his argument that pregnancy should not be protected by anti discrimination laws because they are counter productive.


In the second clip he argues that companies should irradiate the food supply to kill bacteria and illness due to food poisoning is far more dangerous than irradiation.


The third part of the special was that people who get themselves into trouble and need to be rescued should have to pay for their own rescue rather than the money coming from the taxpayers.


The forth segment is my personal favorite... it states that the way to save endangered species is to allow for private ownership and allow for people to eat them.


The fifth segment argues for the legalization of steroids for anyone who chooses to use them from a government perspective. Then if the sport chooses to ban them in their sport that is their business.


The final segment argues that old people are greedy and should get less money from the government seeing as an old person gets 6 dollars for every 1 that goes to a young person.

I am looking for a debate on all 6 of these subjects and seeing as it will probably be somewhat confusing with 6 arguments going on at once please clearly label what you are talking about so that it can be understood. Please use the titles Pregnant, Irradiation, Accidents, Animals, Steroids and Old to specify what you are going to talk about.

Old

I think that old people deserve what they get...

 

[Excalibur]

Irradiation

I've had food poisoning several times, the first of which when I was about 7. It's not that bad. It's just like having the flu or a cold.
Now, I don't really know anything about irradiating food(and I didn't watch the video), but if we eat that shit for long enough doesn't it increase the chances of getting cancer? I'd rather deal with food poisoning than cancer.

 

[Excalibur]

Steroids

Fuck yeah go ahead and legalize the shit. While you're at, legalize a good 70% of the drugs that are currently illegal in this country.

If everyone in professional sports was using steroids I bet it would be alot more fun to watch. And like Dejavu mentioned, if a specific sport wanted to ban it, that's fine, great, whatever. But I don't think they should be totally banned outright. People should know by now the consequences of using steroids, and if they still want to choose to use them, that should be their perogitive.

 

[Excalibur]

Animals

A great man once said, "Devour to survive. So it is, so it's always been" - Maynard J. Keenan

The strong survive, the weak die out. Natural selection. If an animal is about to die out, let it fuckin die. Let the earth do what the earth does naturally.

 

[Acutie]

Pregnant-Sounds fair to me. Your choice shouldn't cost your employer money. As with most things, I'd love personal responsibility to come into play.
Irradiation-Wouldn't care, they use pesticides, cloning, genetic engineering and so on, so why get worked up over that.
Accidents-I love it. Your own stupidity, yeah you shouldn't pay to save your ass and if you don't want to, save it yourself.
Animals-Might work, I don't really follow that sort of thing.
Steroids-Again I don't really care, let em do whatever they want.

 

[Excalibur]

Accidents-I love it. Your own stupidity, yeah you shouldn't pay to save your ass and if you don't want to, save it yourself.

The problem with that is that not all accidents are caused by stupidity.

Let's say you were walking along some hiking trail, and the ground beneath you gave out, making you fall however many feet and somehow trapping your arm under a giant boulder. 38 hours later the rescuers show up. They ask if you have enough money to pay them for their services. You're broke so you say no, and they leave you there to die.

Sounds pretty fucked up to me.

 

[Dejavu]

The problem with that is that not all accidents are caused by stupidity.

Let's say you were walking along some hiking trail, and the ground beneath you gave out, making you fall however many feet and somehow trapping your arm under a giant boulder. 38 hours later the rescuers show up. They ask if you have enough money to pay them for their services. You're broke so you say no, and they leave you there to die.

Sounds pretty fucked up to me.

Accidents

You still chose to go hiking out there without proper safety procedures and in so doing you accepted this as a possible consequence. Also it does not state that the person must be able to at that time it only states that the person would ultimately be responsible for the costs. If its really going to kill you... no matter how much you are going to go into debt by having them rescue you i bet you will accept the fee.

 

[Excalibur]

Accidents

You still chose to go hiking out there without proper safety procedures and in so doing you accepted this as a possible consequence.

Sometimes you can take all the safety precautions in the world and it won't make a bit of difference. Shit still happens.

This just sounds like bad logic to me. Are you saying that if a girl gets raped in an alley that it's her fault because she chose to go down that alley without a chastity belt on? Cause that's what it sounds like you're saying to me.

 

[Mirewen]

Animals

The forth segment is my personal favorite... it states that the way to save endangered species is to allow for private ownership and allow for people to eat them.

As much as I am dsgusted at this comment, it is (unfortunately) true. I do not eat food that isn't farmed personally (I eat Cow, Chicken, Turkey, *some* Pig) because I think it's socially/environmentally) irresponsible for humans to kill things that they aren't replenishing.

I can't even walk past a lobster/crab tank in a freaking supermarket. Because of this reason, I do not eat seafood unless I'm made to (extreme guilt - thanks mom) and even then I make known my disgust at the fact.

Although, I couldn't imagine people eating Tiger... Shark finning (while horrendously disgusting because the fin has no taste and it is mainly a social status food based on the price) is depleting our oceans of one of it's most valuable creatures. Maybe if they started farming them (not even sure how that would work) then they could stay the fuck away from the wild ones.

 

[Mirewen]

Accidents

The third part of the special was that people who get themselves into trouble and need to be rescued should have to pay for their own rescue rather than the money coming from the taxpayers.

Agree 99%. I live near Mount Washington and Whistler and in the winter the most stupid people go out of bounds and have to be rescued at the expense of tax payers. Sure, some people do actually have accidents that are beyond their control, but this quote says "get themselves into trouble". If that is the stringent case, damn straight you pay.

 

[Dejavu]

Sometimes you can take all the safety precautions in the world and it won't make a bit of difference. Shit still happens.

This just sounds like bad logic to me. Are you saying that if a girl gets raped in an alley that it's her fault because she chose to go down that alley without a chastity belt on? Cause that's what it sounds like you're saying to me.

Accidents

Shit does happen and that is unfortunate life is not always fair. However if a woman is raped when she walks down an alley at night she still has to live with the consequences of that action. In the case of stupid accidents that is all this would do is force someone to live with the consequences of their actions. In having to deal with the consequences they will also be more careful in the actions they do take. Perhaps the woman walking down the alley would have some pepper spray and a cell phone instead of just being a victim.

Also in the case of the alley rape there is actually a crime being committed in which the police should get involved where as in a rescue there is no crime.

 

[Acutie]

The problem with that is that not all accidents are caused by stupidity.

Let's say you were walking along some hiking trail, and the ground beneath you gave out, making you fall however many feet and somehow trapping your arm under a giant boulder. 38 hours later the rescuers show up. They ask if you have enough money to pay them for their services. You're broke so you say no, and they leave you there to die.

Sounds pretty fucked up to me.

The problem lies in when and where you draw the line, which is where the issues come up. What is and isn't stupid, what isn't risky and what is just risky enough. To some people, ice fishing isn't that risky, to other people such as myself it's very risky. We've all been conditioned so much from modern society that it would seem barbaric to refuse service to someone who put themselves into a stupid situation and were hurt or endangered.

So what if he can't afford it, take out a loan, sell your car and start taking the God damn bus and while you're at it, thank your lucky stars we do live in a society that WILL save your ass. You don't want to make those sacrifices? That's fine to, you can die and maybe then realize you're a total fucknut.

Bottomline, is paying out of your pocket to save Joe Stupid who jumped off a cliff without proper training the same as paying out of your pocket to save the unfortunate who got into trouble through no fault of his own?

To me the answer is a resounding NO. How much did they say it cost them to rescue those people from the lake? Half a million bucks to save a bunch of dumbass recreational ice fishermen? Fuck them. Let them swim back or take a damn inflatable raft with you when you go.

You know this is what natural selection is SUPPOSED to do, weed out the complete fuck tards who should have died but we somehow manage to keep alive despite their profound lack of common sense.

 

[Mirewen]

Accidents

Accidents

Shit does happen and that is unfortunate life is not always fair. However if a woman is raped when she walks down an alley at night she still has to live with the consequences of that action.

Don't agree with this as it can happen anywhere and no where is really safe. If a man can walk down an alley at night, a woman should be able to. Any man that things "score, shes alone" and rapes a woman should be (imo) castrated because he cannot control himself. This also goes for the whole "she was asking for it, look at what she was wearing" arguement, which is complete BS. A guy can walk around in the summer with no shirt on wearing only shorts yet women rape them. Same goes for the beach, why then are women not getting raped at the beach constantly because they're *gasp* wearing bikinis!

A sexual deviant is a sexual deviant, it doesn't pertain to accidents.

 

[Grandphoenix]

Don't agree with this as it can happen anywhere and no where is really safe. If a man can walk down an alley at night, a woman should be able to. Any man that things "score, shes alone" and rapes a woman should be (imo) castrated because he cannot control himself. This also goes for the whole "she was asking for it, look at what she was wearing" arguement, which is complete BS. A guy can walk around in the summer with no shirt on wearing only shorts yet women rape them. Same goes for the beach, why then are women not getting raped at the beach constantly because they're *gasp* wearing bikinis!

A sexual deviant is a sexual deviant, it doesn't pertain to accidents.

Cause rape is totally about having a penis and not issues with the hypothalamus

 

[Dejavu]

Don't agree with this as it can happen anywhere and no where is really safe. If a man can walk down an alley at night, a woman should be able to. Any man that things "score, shes alone" and rapes a woman should be (imo) castrated because he cannot control himself. This also goes for the whole "she was asking for it, look at what she was wearing" arguement, which is complete BS. A guy can walk around in the summer with no shirt on wearing only shorts yet women rape them. Same goes for the beach, why then are women not getting raped at the beach constantly because they're *gasp* wearing bikinis!

A sexual deviant is a sexual deviant, it doesn't pertain to accidents.

Accidents

I never attempted to state that the rape was her fault. I just stated that regardless of who is at fault she has to live with the consequences of getting raped same as even if a hiker took every precaution and still hurt himself he should still have to live with the consequences

 

[Mirewen]

Accidents

Cause rape is totally about having a penis and not issues with the hypothalamus

It's called society, deal with it. There are rules and regulations for a reason. A person can be put to death for murder, a like punishment for someone who repeatedly rapes should be in place.

If you are infact claiming that it is a disorder linked to the brain (which I call bullshit on, I studied deviant behaviour in University and in 2 major prisons and their brain waves were 'normal') then it would be safe to say that anyone who was shown to have this issue should be put away to avoid future incidents even if they have not showed any inclination. Would that be more fair?

Just because there have been studies linking possible deviant behaviour (not just rape) to brain waves does not make me any more tolerant.

Survival of the fittest eh? Don't spread the problem, cut it off at the source. Literally.

 

[Halifirien]

I don't agree with the name, mostly because the "You Can't Even Talk About It" label is bullshit. Most of this stuff has been talked about... repeatedly.

The maternity leave issue, for example. Maternity leave is a good thing. It affords a little job security. Better still, it makes it easier for women to get jobs in the first place because bosses aren't allowed to say "You're just going to get knocked up, so I'll hire a man instead" like they did in The Goode Olde Days™.

It's not exactly the huge financial hardship Stossel makes it out to be. Companies have to be a certain size before it's mandatory -- and even then, we're talking about twelve weeks of unpaid leave most of the time -- which means employers have more options in how they deal with the temporary loss of an employee.

Yeah, people have to take up the slack when someone leaves. They also have to pick up the slack when someone calls in sick. At least this way you can prepare for it in advance.

Many of the arguments in that segment have been rejected because they're typical libertarian douchebaggery that says a company should be able to act like Ebeneezer Scrooge. No thanks.

The steroids thing amuses me more than anything else. I'm not a sports guy, so I don't care who's juicing or who's not. I agree with the bit Doug Stanhope does about how you're just paying to see balls fly over your head, so what do you care how they get there? He says it's like complaining that your lap-dancer is a communist. Who cares as long as the tits are out?

 

[Skaw]

I can't even walk past a lobster/crab tank in a freaking supermarket. Because of this reason, I do not eat seafood unless I'm made to (extreme guilt - thanks mom) and even then I make known my disgust at the fact.

A lot of common seafood is farmed nowadays. Salmon, Shrimp, Crab(some species, not all. Blue can't be farmed, cannibalistic.)

It's a silly notion to only eat farmed stuff anyway. Wild animals don't cultivate their own food. They over-exhaust, they die of hunger. Humans have the benefit of having a very, very large and varied diet, where we don't have that issue. But we're also cognitive enough to realize when we're thinning numbers too much. It's why we have seasons on wild game, with regulations on how much or little is allowed to be hunted.

Wild will always taste better than farmed too.

The steroids thing amuses me more than anything else. I'm not a sports guy, so I don't care who's juicing or who's not. I agree with the bit Doug Stanhope does about how you're just paying to see balls fly over your head, so what do you care how they get there? He says it's like complaining that your lap-dancer is a communist. Who cares as long as the tits are out?

I don't think steroids should be seen in a sector where everyone has a chance of participating. Not everyone can juice because of health reasons, but those health reasons can't/don't/won't stop them from playing sports clean. If you allow the use of steroids in a business like sports, you might as well just give poker players their own deck of cards and tell them to construct their own hands. A chemical advantage should never be given the okay in that situation, it's effectively discrimination.

 

[Grandphoenix]

It's called society, deal with it. There are rules and regulations for a reason. A person can be put to death for murder, a like punishment for someone who repeatedly rapes should be in place.

If you are infact claiming that it is a disorder linked to the brain (which I call bullshit on, I studied deviant behaviour in University and in 2 major prisons and their brain waves were 'normal') then it would be safe to say that anyone who was shown to have this issue should be put away to avoid future incidents even if they have not showed any inclination. Would that be more fair?

Just because there have been studies linking possible deviant behaviour (not just rape) to brain waves does not make me any more tolerant.

Survival of the fittest eh? Don't spread the problem, cut it off at the source. Literally.

Just because they don't have a penis or can't distribute sperm doesn't mean they still can't/won't go through the assault and rape of someone; however, they just won't be able to penetrate them or knock 'em up.

After all, most rape cases aren't even about sexual pleasure, but more so the gratification of being in charge and having power over someone. I'm not defending rape by any means, just stating there are more effective ways to deal with it.

 

[Mirewen]

After all, most rape cases aren't even about sexual pleasure, but more so the gratification of being in charge and having power over someone. I'm not defending rape by any means, just stating there are more effective ways to deal with it.

I agree with that, but domination transfers, jobs, sports, relationships etc. I don't actually expect men to be castrated, I just don't think women should tippy toe around 'dangerous' areas "just in case". I walk through a back alley to get home every day, otherwise it takes me an extra 45 minutes to get home, and that would be walking on a highway (danger of getting hit by cars). If a dude sees that as "oh no she didn't" and tries something, I'll rip off his balls myself. That is not an open invitation to harass anyone.