katy perry is a twat.

I dunno, maybe I'm crazy but I kinda think the song is catchy. She could be singing "I kissed a goat and I liked it" and I would still listen to the song.

I think maybe sometimes people get too worked up over song lyrics. When you hear a song for the first time and love it, 9 times out of 10 you have no idea what the lyrics are. Who gives a fuck what they are singing about?
 
Pasquale said:
I dunno, maybe I'm crazy but I kinda think the song is catchy. She could be singing "I kissed a goat and I liked it" and I would still listen to the song.

I think maybe sometimes people get too worked up over song lyrics. When you hear a song for the first time and love it, 9 times out of 10 you have no idea what the lyrics are. Who gives a fuck what they are singing about?
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To remove any doubt you might have, you are crazy.

I finally listened to a small sample of this song - please don't tell me I have to listen to the whole thing to get the full effect. It's just another systematically written pop piece designed to sell to the simpletons* (sadly, there are so god damn many of them). This might just be the music elitist in me, but come on people, kick this pop-trash habit and find some better music - believe it or not, but it does exist.

*simpleton - (as defined by me) Someone who is extremely fickle and/or completely ignorant and doesn't care to change or be educated. They have a tendancy to like things such as Katy Perry ("music" - I stress the quotation marks), Point Break (movies), and Dean Koontz (Not sure how to classify him, so I'll go with words vomited onto paper and stamped with #1 bestseller).
 
So you have to be educated to like "real" music? That's awfully pretentious. Then you would have to define "real" music. I always thought music was the thing that went through my ear. I don't particularly care for the song in question (though I'll admit it's pretty catchy) but when you have to define every song's authenticity by its lyrics/genre/tune, you're kind of defeating the purpose of music in general.
 
Carste said:
To remove any doubt you might have, you are crazy.

I finally listened to a small sample of this song - please don't tell me I have to listen to the whole thing to get the full effect. It's just another systematically written pop piece designed to sell to the simpletons* (sadly, there are so god damn many of them). This might just be the music elitist in me, but come on people, kick this pop-trash habit and find some better music - believe it or not, but it does exist.

*simpleton - (as defined by me) Someone who is extremely fickle and/or completely ignorant and doesn't care to change or be educated. They have a tendancy to like things such as Katy Perry ("music" - I stress the quotation marks), Point Break (movies), and Dean Koontz (Not sure how to classify him, so I'll go with words vomited onto paper and stamped with #1 bestseller).
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Musical elitist is one way to put it. LOL I happen to like the song and I'm far from a simpleton. It's not my favorite song in the whole world... I won't run out and buy the album... but it's fun and it's mindless and you know what? Who f'ing cares? lol I don't think anyone's lauding her as the next rising star and I don't see her winning a Grammy for her efforts. I listen to everything from Mozart to Soundgarden to Ludacris. I'm plenty cultured and my musical pallette is very broad. But every so often a pop smash/catchy/fun something comes along that amuses me and I hardly think getting a kick out of it makes me or anyone similar "crazy" or a simpleton.

Some of you need to loosen up. Not everything people listen to has to be deep or poetic or subscribe to the paragons of musical talent and rock-god divinity to be enjoyable.
 
Zyndara said:
Musical elitist is one way to put it. LOL I happen to like the song and I'm far from a simpleton. It's not my favorite song in the whole world... I won't run out and buy the album... but it's fun and it's mindless and you know what? Who f'ing cares? lol I don't think anyone's lauding her as the next rising star and I don't see her winning a Grammy for her efforts. I listen to everything from Mozart to Soundgarden to Ludacris. I'm plenty cultured and my musical pallette is very broad. But every so often a pop smash/catchy/fun something comes along that amuses me and I hardly think getting a kick out of it makes me or anyone similar "crazy" or a simpleton.

Some of you need to loosen up. Not everything people listen to has to be deep or poetic or subscribe to the paragons of musical talent and rock-god divinity to be enjoyable.
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People can like whatever they want, I've come to terms with this - I was merely describing how I view most of pop culture and generalizing the majority of people that buy into it. The fact that this song is at a record breaking #1 on the charts with people liking it only because "it's catchy" absolutely kills me. Pretentious because I require something to be more than just "catchy"? I suppose I can live with that.

Edit: Going to explain something a little more for Lego. I didn't say you had to be educated to like more than just a slapped together song. You can be the most uneducated person and enjoy/want something that's more than just catchy. The uneducated part was in reference to the people who listen and like whatever is thrown at them (aka, the fickle and ignorant). I wouldn't classify everyone that buys into the pop media as uneducated either; I would place the educated of this group in the category of not caring.
 
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Carste said:
People can like whatever they want, I've come to terms with this - I was merely describing how I view most of pop culture and generalizing the majority of people that buy into it. The fact that this song is at a record breaking #1 on the charts with people liking it only because "it's catchy" absolutely kills me. Pretentious because I require something to be more than just "catchy"? I suppose I can live with that.
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I guess all I "require" of my music is that I enjoy it. That's good enough for me. But then I have an open mind. A lot of people listen to different music depending on their mood. I'd hate to think that you like to generalize people who like that song while not having any clue what else they listen to, and simply making the assumption that liking it makes them a tasteless, musical idiot. Because that is pretentious.
 
Zyndara said:
I guess all I "require" of my music is that I enjoy it. That's good enough for me. But then I have an open mind. A lot of people listen to different music depending on their mood. I'd hate to think that you like to generalize people who like that song while not having any clue what else they listen to, and simply making the assumption that liking it makes them a tasteless, musical idiot. Because that is pretentious.
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Just to make sure this is understood here, I generalize the majority of the people that like this song. What kind of music do you suppose the majority of this group listen to? Would you say the majority of these people just listen to whatever is playing, whatever has any kind of pushing-the-limits lyrics, or whatever is shoved down their throats by the label's marketing team? The majority here does not include people with an open mind - people who know Mozart was a composer (and not "a spaniard that found the U.S"... seriously.), people who know the driving force behind music of different eras, and people who can come up with more reason to liking a song than "it's catchy". I would classify the majority here as tasteless, musical idiots. Music has been my life for a damn long time and it feels like pop is completely taking over (along with the tasteless, musical idiots) and shitting on anything good about music.
 
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Carste said:
Just to make sure this is understood here, I generalize the majority of the people that like this song. What kind of music do you suppose the majority of this group listen to? Would you say the majority of these people just listen to whatever is playing, whatever has any kind of pushing-the-limits lyrics, or whatever is shoved down their throats by the label's marketing team? The majority here does not include people with an open mind - people who know Mozart was a composer (and not "a spaniard that found the U.S"... seriously.), people who know the driving force behind music of different eras, and people who can come up with more reason to liking a song than "it's catchy". I would classify the majority here as tasteless, musical idiots. Music has been my life for a damn long time and it feels like pop is completely taking over (along with the tasteless, musical idiots) and shitting on anything good about music.
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I hear what you're saying. Just so you have some idea of where I'm coming from, I was a music major early on. I sing. Well. So I know a little something about music. I just think you're hitting the panic button a little soon. Katy Perry isn't the downfall of music as you know it, and there are plenty of people out there who love live music and more refined styles of music who will continue to buy and listen to other styles other than fluff pop. If they choose to buy Katy Perry's one little song, or any pop junk like it, it's not going to erase the meanigful contributions of more serious musicians around the world.

I just don't think you or anyone else has the right to judge the criteria by which someone enjoys music. That's pretty individual, it's abstract. It's like looking at art. You may look at a piece of artwork and find it to be an abyssmal disaster a two year old could have done and another person may be inspired by the same piece. It's the beauty of art and the beauty of expression. To each their own... It's a real, narrow-minded shame to judge people based on your opinion of what criteria you feel music should meet. That's what I'm saying. Hate the song all you want, but don't presume to put down the people who like it because you can't paint everyone that listens to it with the same brush. Not even by putting in a "majority" caveat.
 
Oh man, I love being a music snob. You got your gear/pt snobs on here, I'm a music one. It's not even really hating on Perry since it was all the label that made the song popular, they also knew the "part time lesbians" that like to kiss for the camera would get off on it. They are genius for this, even though a lot of talent is being looked over just for the next quick mil. song.

You have your taste, that's awesome, I would never deny someone who loses themselves to their own sound. I just cant stand the trend whores who honestly don't have any good taste in music, the ones that literally do eat out of the hands of promoters and reps. As far as mainstream goes, its only gonna get worse, that is untill Hova drops his new stuff.
 
Actually, I think lyrics are very important in music, and I have a tendency (for good or bad) to deconstruct the words of every song I listen to - I guess I've been a lit student for too long. Ur So Gay is just a succession of gay stereotypes piled on to each in a pejorative sense to attack some former lover of hers. Now that's fine, Perry is entitled to use whatever words she wishes to express herself, but it's really not my cup of tea and personally I find the song to be rather cheap and tasteless.

I Kissed a Girl on the other hand is catchy (however I would attribute this to the production powers of Dr. Luke rather than Katy Perry herself) but it just reeks of clever marketting. Girl-on-girl sells. Her record company knew this. That's why they slapped on some pseudo-controversial shtick about bisexualism, made a shiny video with pretty girls and shipped that mess for public consumption. Again, if that's your bag, more power to you.

What's perplexing is the combination of these two songs, released one after the other as the first two singles from her album. I guess it just reflects the disparity in public attitudes towards male homosexuality and female homosexuality - or it could just be a stupid, mindless song (either way, I think it's a valid observation, and proves true at least on a very latent level.) In the end, Katy Perry just comes off as more of a vehicle for her record company, than a musician which I personally find off-putting.
 
Lukas said:
Actually, I think lyrics are very important in music, and I have a tendency (for good or bad) to deconstruct the words of every song I listen to - I guess I've been a lit student for too long. Ur So Gay is just a succession of gay stereotypes piled on to each in a pejorative sense to attack some former lover of hers. Now that's fine, Perry is entitled to use whatever words she wishes to express herself, but it's really not my cup of tea and personally I find the song to be rather cheap and tasteless.

I Kissed a Girl on the other hand is catchy (however I would attribute this to the production powers of Dr. Luke rather than Katy Perry herself) but it just reeks of clever marketting. Girl-on-girl sells. Her record company knew this. That's why they slapped on some pseudo-controversial shtick about bisexualism, made a shiny video with pretty girls and shipped that mess for public consumption. Again, if that's your bag, more power to you.

What's perplexing is the combination of these two songs, released one after the other as the first two singles from her album. I guess it just reflects the disparity in public attitudes towards male homosexuality and female homosexuality - or it could just be a stupid, mindless song (either way, I think it's a valid observation, and proves true at least on a very latent level.) In the end, Katy Perry just comes off as more of a vehicle for her record company, than a musician which I personally find off-putting.
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yup.

haha oh man if anyone actually thinks shes an artist, go fall down somewhere on something sharp.
 
She's not an artist. Like so many have expressed, she's a pop vehicle. Not unlike any number of pretty young things before her or after her for that matter.

And Lukas, I agree with you that it's a disparity. However, she isn't the first musician to contradict herself in her music, and won't be the last. It's only being made such a large deal of because it is a hot button topic right now. Particularly in a political election year where this subject matter is always a point of contention.
 
Zyndara said:
Katy Perry isn't the downfall of music as you know it
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I know she isn't the downfall; she's just the current headliner which makes her the easy target for anti-pop talk.

Zyndara said:
If they choose to buy Katy Perry's one little song, or any pop junk like it, it's not going to erase the meanigful contributions of more serious musicians around the world.
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It won't erase any meaningful contributions, but it will lead to this:
Saocide said:
...a lot of talent is being looked over just for the next quick mil. song.
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which will prevent new ones. It will get to the point (if it isn't there already) where truly talented people have to hang up their instruments to pay the bills by working at the local fast food joint never realizing their potential.

Zyndara said:
I just don't think you or anyone else has the right to judge the criteria by which someone enjoys music. That's pretty individual, it's abstract. It's like looking at art. You may look at a piece of artwork and find it to be an abyssmal disaster a two year old could have done and another person may be inspired by the same piece. It's the beauty of art and the beauty of expression. To each their own... It's a real, narrow-minded shame to judge people based on your opinion of what criteria you feel music should meet. That's what I'm saying. Hate the song all you want, but don't presume to put down the people who like it because you can't paint everyone that listens to it with the same brush. Not even by putting in a "majority" caveat.
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With your background in music, how do you picture someone (upbringing, what they do for fun/work, the people they associate with) who listens mostly to classical music? How about someone that listens mostly to classic rock? Southern rock? Country? Divas? Hip-hop? Grunge? You have these people pictured? Good. Now get those pictures out of your mind; you have no right to do that.
 
Carste said:
With your background in music, how do you picture someone (upbringing, what they do for fun/work, the people they associate with) who listens mostly to classical music? How about someone that listens mostly to classic rock? Southern rock? Country? Divas? Hip-hop? Grunge? You have these people pictured? Good. Now get those pictures out of your mind; you have no right to do that.
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I don't picture them. That's the whole point I'm trying to make. I don't judge people based on what they listen to. That means I don't assume someone's a pot-smoking rasta because they listen to reggae. And I don't assume that someone's a snotty rich kid because they appreciate opera. It's called having an open mind. I don't pigeonhole people based on the music they like. And I don't assume that someone who likes a pop song or a pop musician is devoid of taste or sanity.
 
Zyndara said:
I don't picture them. That's the whole point I'm trying to make. I don't judge people based on what they listen to. That means I don't assume someone's a pot-smoking rasta because they listen to reggae. And I don't assume that someone's a snotty rich kid because they appreciate opera. It's called having an open mind. I don't pigeonhole people based on the music they like. And I don't assume that someone who likes a pop song or a pop musician is devoid of taste or sanity.
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Ok, now I know you're lying. You totally pictured my grandma when I said "Diva". But I guess this is where we will stay at opposite ends of the argument here. I strongly believe the type(s) of music someone listens to says a lot about their personality. People are judged all the time - by the clothes they wear, the way they look, the size of their waist, the color of their skin, the god(s) they worship - I think what I judge people on is one of the less harmful things to be judging someone about. If you have never judged anyone ever, then you are a saint and I envy you. If you have, then you have your criteria for judgement and I have mine.
 
Carste said:
Ok, now I know you're lying. You totally pictured my grandma when I said "Diva".
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lol :biggrin:

Carste said:
But I guess this is where we will stay at opposite ends of the argument here. I strongly believe the type(s) of music someone listens to says a lot about their personality.
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I agree. Where we differ is that I don't believe that liking a certain type of music instantly makes you one thing or another. I think it's almost offensive to assume someone's personality or what type of human being they are based on the music they listen to. I listen to and enjoy Eminem, does that mean I endorse murdering wives and homophobia? Does it mean I only listen to rap music or am incapable of appreciating - say, opera or symphonic music? Of course not. But you would think it would mean that based on what you're saying.

Carste said:
People are judged all the time - by the clothes they wear, the way they look, the size of their waist, the color of their skin, the god(s) they worship - I think what I judge people on is one of the less harmful things to be judging someone about. If you have never judged anyone ever, then you are a saint and I envy you. If you have, then you have your criteria for judgement and I have mine.
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I never said your view was harmful, I said I believed it to be narrow-minded. People are judged to varying degrees and different "criteria" everywhere depending on who is doing the judging. It's the world we live in. But the impression I make of the people I meet has a lot less to do with what they wear, how they look and how much money they make than the "content of their character" to quote someone I highly respect. I don't close myself off to people who don't look like me or listen to what I listen to, and I don't assume I know who they are without bothering to get to know them. I'm not a saint and would never want to be. But I treat people how I would want them to treat me. And I'd like to hope someone wouldn't presume to know who I am as a person based on what's on my iPod. It's superficial and it takes a lot less effort than stopping to consider that "things" don't make you who you are, including the music you listen to. Just my two cents and I'll leave it at that.

(Thanks for the lively conversation btw :) )
 
oh ladies, no judgement from me concerning the folks who listen to her. Please, I totally found myself strumming my finger when I heard Kylie Minogue at the gym yesterday. =P

Just wanted to share the reason why I dislike Katy Perry, and hear what you fine people think.

Zyndara said:
She's not an artist. Like so many have expressed, she's a pop vehicle. Not unlike any number of pretty young things before her or after her for that matter.
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Lovely. I'm so relieved none of us are under the impression she's an artist :)
 
Pasquale said:
I dunno, maybe I'm crazy but I kinda think the song is catchy. She could be singing "I kissed a goat and I liked it" and I would still listen to the song.

I think maybe sometimes people get too worked up over song lyrics. When you hear a song for the first time and love it, 9 times out of 10 you have no idea what the lyrics are. Who gives a fuck what they are singing about?
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This.

I like the song. Although then again I don't really listen to the words of a song for the most part. Probably why trance music is my favorite genre and why I like alot of foreign music. Don't know what the fuck they are saying but it sounds catchy!
 
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