Kids and the N word

Fellina

Fellina

Iron Mistress
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Before I go into my story, I need to give a little background on where I live. We have a modest house in a middle class part of Richmond, VA. The street we live on is one of the more desirable (and thus higher property value) parts of the subdivision, and all of our immediate neighbors are good people. Some of the streets nearby, however, aren't as nice and have a number of rental properties on them.

We have a number of kids on our street, and I know all the kids that actually live on our street. Two families of kids play with eachother the most; Barbara has 2 boys aged 8 and 10, Amy has 4 boys ages (rough guesstimate) 16, 10, 8, and 5. The boys play either football or basketball together almost every day, and have since we moved here over a year ago. I should also note at this point that Barbara's family is black, and Amy's is white. Keep that in mind for later on.

Things have changed over this summer, I've noticed a lot more kids playing on our street. A LOT more kids; whereas before I was used to seeing 4-6 kids roughhousing now I'm seeing 10 or more. Our street has been a lot noisier, but the kids usually stay down near the end of the street so I haven't paid them any real mind. Until yesterday.

I'm outside trimming my hedges, and Amy comes stomping by grumbling. I ask her what's wrong, and she starts complaining about the kids playing down the street, and how horrible things have gotten with them ever since the new kids from a rental property the next street over have started playing with them. Things apparently culminated to a head today, when Amy's youngest son came home crying that the other kids had called him a name. I won't repeat the name, as it will be censored out by the site anyway, but if you've read the title you know what name they called him. That's right- a gang of black kids, all in the 8-12 range, ganged up on a 5 year old white kid and called him the N-word.

I mused for quite a while, wondering why the kids had chosen that particular name, especially since it was so far out of it's normal context. I remember growing up as a kid, the epithets of choice were extremely banal, with the only truly taboo word being "THE F WORD". So of course when kids wanted to show how truly badass they were, that was the word they'd say. Nowadays, of course, most curse words are a matter of course. Kids are exposed to them all the time, often from their own parents (I myself am guilty of dropping f-bombs in inappropriate places). The one word, however, that is considered truly taboo, is of course the N-word.

This led to some interesting ideas on the power that words are given based upon cultural mores, and individual reactions. For me personally, "bad" words don't phase me all that much. Racial epithets irritate me, mainly because I think insulting someone based entirely on skin color is weak; if I'm going to cut someone down, it's going to be based on their intelligence or moral fiber, not their skin color. However I don't allow those words to have any more power than any other insults, if anything I think some of them are hilarious sounding. (I had a friend in high school who called me Wop the Dago, I in return called him Mick the Spick as he was half-irish half-mexican).

All this makes me wonder, however, if the efforts of certain groups to exterminate the N-word are doomed simply to bring about even more usage of the word. By over-hyping the abhorrence of this word, they're only making it all the more tantalizing for it's shock value in a culture that is becoming less and less sensitive to the supposed power of foul language. What do you think?
 
When my little sister started school, she went to a pretty much all black school in richmond CA. One day the kids were like "sup nigga" or w/e the jigs do nowadays, so my sister tells them she isn't a ni99er and punches the kid. She got suspended, I had a laugh cause i always thought she was pretty shy, and she still is.

In all reality, the saying "you can take the ni99er out of the ghetto, but you can't take the ghetto out of the ni99er" is one of the truest sayings. There are a few cities around where more affluent blacks have moved to, but their kids are ruining those cities just as fast as Oakland or Richmond etc.

Blacks have an identity issue, they don't know if they should fit in, or lash out, it seems the norm has been to lash out for the last 20+ years, but one day they'll realize talking like idiots isn't going to get them anywhere.

It's hard to tell how it will actually happen, because a lot of the people who have moved to the better cities/neighborhoods are respectable people, but their kids still act like they're from the hood.
 
That is something I have always thought of as bazaar.

I have a few black friends, and I always ask thier opinions whenever anyhting that is supposed to "effect them" happens. When the OJ verdict was out - I asked thier opinion. 5/5 said "Oh yeah, he was guilty". My favorite was when I asked my close friend Lucy (she is a woman I met at Curves - like 52 year old black woman who is far more badass than most chicks my age) what she thought of the Michael Richards rant. She said "Meh, I have heard black comedians say worse things....on a regular basis" It offended my white ass more than hers. lol

She asked me if "honkey" offended me....I just giggled - first of all, we got the LAMEST of all racial slurrs...lol

I think you are right though, if people don't want anyone to use it - they have to not use it themselves. I have a bunch of gay friends (I do theatre, go figure) who call eachother faggots, but turn blue if they here a straight person say it. Such double standards are confusing, especially to the little ones, but I don't see it going away any time soon.
 
They explained in Chasing Amy about it I think, about how they say it to each other so it doesen't hurt when someone else says it. I am unsure if there's any real basis to it, but it wouldn't supprise me.
 
Grem said:
They explained in Chasing Amy about it I think, about how they say it to each other so it doesen't hurt when someone else says it. I am unsure if there's any real basis to it, but it wouldn't supprise me.
Click to expand...

I <3'ed Chasing Amy ^^
 
I went to a nearly all-black school in high school, so hearing "******" in class was pretty commonplace. But at the same time... nobody really cared if I said it, either, and I'm white. It could mostly be because I never came across as a little bitch at school. A lot of the anime nerds would get their shit wrecked if they even looked like they mouthed the word off.

A lot of black people in South Carolina seem to just listen to the way you say it. More often than not using the word typically just meant you probably hung out with a lot of black people (it slips, really, especially when you're used to hearing/using it a lot), and it was rarely if ever used in a derogatory manner. I guess I can't really see the word being used as an insult, especially towards a white person; I've always seen the word as a sense of belonging when a black (and to a further extent sometimes white) person used it while talking about me.
 
I should probably clarify that the kids were definitely using it in an attempt to insult the white 5-year old. He'd never heard the word before, and didn't actually know what it meant, all he knew is that the kids were being mean to him and this was one of the things they called him. It's like when I was 5 and following my older cousins around and one flipped me the bird; I didn't know what it was but I could tell from the reactions of my other cousins that it was bad, so I told my uncle.

I know what you mean, Meeze, about the identity issue, and that certainly seems to be the case here. Amy and Barbara's kids have been friends for years, but now that some new black kids have shown up it seems like Barbara's kids are siding with them against Amy's sons (the younger ones at least, they don't pull shit when her high school aged son is there).
 
Well I can defiantly say that teenage black kids drop variations of n****r (predominately n***a) because for most of them think they're ghetto gang banging rappers because all they'll listen to is rap. Then in my own experience have heard 5 or 6 try to rap, 1 being white I throw him in there because he really thought he was black, some of them I thought were alright never would make it big while the rest just sucked.

This has now spread to younger groups such as a 6th grader I would have to think that it's an influence of young parents listening to rap, an older sibling listening to rap and exposing his/her younger sibling to the music, watching MTV or BET a little to much then they go and buy the CD listen to the album hearing, I am by no means saying all rap is like this, dropping the n word along with other inappropriate things a 12 year old should hear. Honestly I doubt even the 12 year old knows what n****r or n***a mean nor do the younger ones. They probably were just imitating what they've been exposed to.

Chances are society should take the blame for glorifying what basically boils down to a lie. Yes some rappers may have had it hard back in the day, but now because people buy into their, for a lack of a better term at the moment, bull shit then buy clothes that they see the rapper wearing etc. Then they try to mimic the gang banger BS in the attempt to try to look cool, and sadly it just kind of happens.

All I can do is look on and shake my head at the direction that this country is going because this current generation is just so terribly stupid. America has really fallen behind on education standards because of no child left behind. If a person is going to be stupid then forget let them do what they want focus on the ones that learn, and encourage those to be the ones to keep the hard work up to educate themselves by actually learning the lessons taught in books instead of just applying them to homework then forget the lesson in 3 weeks.

As for something I have noticed that really starts to annoy me after awhile is how loud black girls talk. I am not trying to be racist here, but fuck they talk at the top of their voices inside places. Not to forget they feel the need to scream out when they see one of their friends they had just seen a period or two ago like they hadn't seen them in years.

I have to quote my brother here, honestly it may be one of the most honest things he's ever said, "I am not racist. I just don't like stupid people, and coincidentally stupidity knows no ethnicity".
 
This is interesting stuff, Fell . . .

I like your thoughts about the development of language. I've had friends who've gone to female-empowerment groups where they make them scream "cunt" (cxuxnxt if it filters) to take away the power that men can have over them by calling them that.

I'm really curious about what was going on in the heads of those kids . . . I mean, the founding fathers took the term "yankee" and made it a national mascot after the Brits applied it as opprobrium. But I'm not sure that even sixteen year olds think that way. It seems more likely to me that it sort of happened spur of the moment, and they were as thrilled by the sudden discovery of the irony of turning a racial identity that's been half-reclaimed into an exportable term with truly dynamic consequences. Ni99er -- and here I use Meeze's shorthand because I do happen to think that words get power when you avoid them -- is still used by rappers as a sexual currency, and while the hiphop culture intends to broadcast the image of accessible money for black youth, I know that a lot of black academics have recently been ranting against how those examples still focus on getting ahead at the expense of those who are already-depressed economically (including especially other blacks), and the material possessions do not represent the accumulation of real wealth, such as real estate or effective health insurance. There are still black taxes or ni99er taxes on many urban and suburban neighborhoods, and the lottery has long been held by economists as an additional tax on the poor.

Anyway, that may be a bit off track, but I think it serves to illustrate that, taken as individuals, most black citizens may not even have a specific, constant identity that is always evoked by the term ni99er. I don't pretend that most of them haven't encountered it, but the term gets thrown around a lot of different ways, and the old "It's only ok if someone IN the group says it" is getting broken down by some new pressures.

Interesting story, though. Mind if I share it with a prof or two?
 
lol, our culture is as stupid and at a loss of logic as any other culture on this planet. We form general feelings over certain words we create and use those words against our fellow citizens. I find taking offense in any man made slur is fairly retarded and should reflect upon the intelligence of the user more than the receiver. Give me a logical insult to me that can surpass my mental temperance and I'll show you an insult worth taking in.
 
Well, calling someone the lowest form of the human race is pretty bad.
 
It sounds like the kids in the neighborhood need an education on contextual culture. ;)

Personally, I'd welcome the diversity the kids are experiencing. Parents should be there to provide perspective on the things they're seeing, and frame them into the right context. So there's a bunch of kids saying the "N-word"? It's a good time to approach the issue within relevant context and have a healthy discussion.

I laugh when I read "Lottery is a tax on the poor." The "poor" are not forced to buy lottery tickets...

Tax: A tax is an involuntary fee paid by individuals or businesses to a state, or to functional equivalents of a state, including tribes, secessionist movements or revolutionary movements.
Source: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax
 
I have a huge problem with ethnic "ownership" of words. Huge. It's like trying to reintroduce a double standard from the ground floor up instead of vice versa. And a double standard, regardless of who attempts to introduce it and for whatever reason, is still wrong. I think it's a monumental misstep on the part of mainstream black culture to think trying to own the word is a good idea.

Don't wanna be offended by a word? Simple. Cowboy up, grow a sack, and don't let it offend you. Be angry with the ignorance and bigotry of the user. Feel free to express that anger, but never let anyone think they've got it over on you just because they use "the word."

And for God's sake, slap the taste out of your kids' mouths if you hear them using it.

/soapbox
 
crookedmidget said:
I laugh when I read "Lottery is a tax on the poor." The "poor" are not forced to buy lottery tickets...

Tax: A tax is an involuntary fee paid by individuals or businesses to a state, or to functional equivalents of a state, including tribes, secessionist movements or revolutionary movements.
Source: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax
Click to expand...

Oh come on, you're not going to stand on a wikipedia definition? I'm going to forego more than this cursory point at "involuntary" taxes in a representative government, as well as the history of US political formation, because both of these just represent internal inconsistencies in the wiki definition, which I don't intend to use anyway, and I think the lottery is a far more involuntary expenditure than sales taxes that are presumably going back into community services.

Let's try these definitions:

Lottery: a system that presents itself as offering hope of instant economic success, when actual probability of success is 0 when taken at any level of statistical significance
The poor: those desperate for hope of instant economic success, also overwhelmingly the demographic targeted by the lottery, and that participates in the lottery
Tax: an externally imposed financial charge that does not provide an immediate service or product

By these definitions, which though incomplete certainly represent a mathematical and factual way of representing the circumstances, the lottery offers a false product and charges for it. To say that nobody forces the poor to play is like saying that the person who puts a gun to the head of a cashier and demands the register's cash doesn't force the cashier to give them money and then claims that the cashier obviously robbed the store because she had a choice as to whether or not to give the cash to the gunman out of free will. Poverty kills, and the lottery pretends that it's a way out of that death. But you don't want to call it a tax, fine. But lottery earnings figure majorly in state budgets, and they're mostly supplied by the poor, who get nothing in return. Find me a better word and I'll use it.

The argument can be made that the lottery purchaser BELIEVES she is getting a fair chance. That she knows the odds aren't good, but she thinks she can still maybe get it if she waits long enough. This is the belief that the lottery system markets. It's not true. The lottery wins, not the players. The marketing is all false, the demographics targeted by it can't afford to spend $50 a month on $5 and $10 tickets every week. It's not an ethical system, but most states' budgets are in such awful shape that they grasp at this form of revenue.

On an unrelated note, I found this humorous and slightly topical (NSFW, language):

http://xkcd.com/75/
 
ive had this conversation countless times in my life over this word and other words. The city i live in is considered a racial melting pot.
Its a mix of all races, all sides have jokes about the other sides and words they normally would said directly to them.
When the nazis came to town to do a march last year, the blacks rioted and tore up this whole neighborhood.
Luckily i was out of town that day as it was only two blocks from my house, but i saw it live on CNN and talked to my parents, to which my dad was preparing his guns incase it made it to our street.
You would think the riots were over the Nazis huh?
well as it turns out it had nothing to do with them, they used them coming as an excuse for a bunch of gangs to get together and riot, gang members in the riot admitted this themself.
they did everything from pretty much tear down a gas station, burn down a bar that has been a fixture of this town for as long as i can remember, and even beat the hell out of a pregnant arabic woman working at a gas station.
It was dumb and done for no reason at all and they wonder why people stereotype them.
I am friends with many black people, my best friend whom lives with me is half black, most of my neighbors are black.
They are respectable nice people.
Its most of their kids who pick up the crap from their rap videos and friends at school who act like morons.
We have like 5 kids in this neighborhood who have car stereo systems wired and rigged up to a car battery ON THEIR BIKES, riding down the street blaring that crap.
and i swear theres always some young little black girls followin the bike dancing behind it.
how dumb does this look?
why do the parents who seem respectable with a head on their shoulders allow this?
its these type of things that bring about a stereotype that leads to the racial words.
I myself will admit i am guilty of using the word.
even my half black friend uses the word.
because like many people say, There are black people and there a ni66ers.
Some of the coolest down to earth people are black.
i worked with two black brothers for over 4 years at a job and we were always hangin out, and still keep in touch to this day.
And its not right to say, I have black friends. Im not racist.
Everyone is racist in some way, everyone can probly think of a time where they said "Dumb (insert racial term here)"

Ive been called everything under the sun for being white. But they dont affect me because they are just dumb.
the worst thing i have ever been called was actually last month,
i was driving down the street, a busy street mind you. after picking up a friend. This black woman has her van stopped in the middle of the road with someone standing next to it talking to them.
Cars are parked on both sides so i had no way around.
I just slowed down and stopped behind them, I didnt beep the horn or make and gestures for them to move, i just kindly waited.
The van finally pulls off but as i drive by the guy standing out there he yells in my window, FUCKING SKINHEAD.
Had it not been for my daughter in the vehicle i would of pulled over and politley asked him why he would call me that, when for one even though i was wearing a hat i have pretty long hair.
I would not have come at him with an attitude or anything, i just really wanted to know why he would call me that when i didnt even do anything.
ironically 3 days later, i shaved my head.

But seriously, Words are WORDS.
no matter how much history it behind them its just a damn word.
There are plenty of older words that have been around longer than that, but the N word is seen to most as the ONE word with DO NOT SAY written all over it.

i did my test in high school and walked up to random black people and said "what up my nigga!" most just laughed, especially since i was not a wigger either, totally opposite goth skater kid.
but i was sure had i continued that beyond the day i tested the results for my humanity class, it would have become a problem.
But no matter how many discussions pop up like this, the way these things are and how they are handled may never change anyway.
 
Chasym said:
But seriously, Words are WORDS.
no matter how much history it behind them its just a damn word.
There are plenty of older words that have been around longer than that, but the N word is seen to most as the ONE word with DO NOT SAY written all over it.
Click to expand...

Reauland said:
I think it's a monumental misstep on the part of mainstream black culture to think trying to own the word is a good idea.

Don't wanna be offended by a word? Simple. Cowboy up, grow a sack, and don't let it offend you. Be angry with the ignorance and bigotry of the user. Feel free to express that anger, but never let anyone think they've got it over on you just because they use "the word."
Click to expand...

The anger comes from the history of the word. The etymology of the term is in plantation slave culture. When this word gets used by a white, mid/upper-class male to a black person, the historical force of that is extreme. There are parts of the US where african-ethnic people still have to lower their eyes to whites or be seen as "troublemakers" and socially ostracized.

Anger at this history isn't illegitimate, and there aren't a lot of ways to "express the anger" as you put it. The people who are angry because someone using this word thinks they've "got it over on them" are angry because those people DO have it over on them. Four, five generations from slaveholding populations, and the inherited wealth of a number of families has been generated by the fact that their businesses could be run on slave labor without cost above providing subsistence living and mass housing. Not to mention systematic cultural rape. Meanwhile, the people who were exploited and raped are expected to walk up to the bank in their hometown, say, "we're equals now," get a middle-class job and immediately equalize the economic disparity?

A kid on the bus calls you a geek, sure, it's a "grow-a-sac" situation. Systematic economic depression along racial lines? Not something to just grow a sac and ignore.

So the word doesn't mean that to you, that's cool, whatever. But I think you're in serious trouble if you start telling other people what the limits of what it can mean to them are.

Edit: added a quote that was in while I was working on this.
 
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