Lame argument continued

[Osse]

Ok, let's see if we can wrap this up in less than one page.

Here's a re-cap, not intended to be a full summary of all the post that occurred, but to illustrate my position. My position simply being: If you have an opinion, clearly state it's an opinion and show some courtesy; if you have factual information then link or post some proof; and know the difference between the two. If you want to know why I consider this to be significant, just think of all the 10+ page threads you read, hoping to get good info on the posted topic, but only got a back and forth argument endlessly repeating the same two opposing positions without any real info.

This is the part of my initial post regarding the DNC job that started this ordeal. (Notice how it's clearly labeled as "my thoughts/observations".)

Here are my thoughts/observations on the job's performance at what I believe to be the highest level anyone has gotten it yet.

-The drain samba was giving me about 8-10 HP return per katana hit, which is about 60-70% of all the healing I needed. I wish she had used it more. As it was, she only used that ability when multiple people were down a noticeable amount of HP. With so many dual-wielders in the pt, I think just the extra damage from the drain effect would be monstrous added damage (assuming that the 0's I see at full health just means that I'm not getting back HP but am still causing the drain damage).

Someone asked a question regarding how effective Drain Samba was as a healing adjunct, and I responded in part with this line.

Draining 10HP x2 every 3 seconds or so is like having Regen 3...better because it's damaging the mob at the same time.

After a few posts, Uzor had something to say (included in his post was a quote of my post above):

Although it says "Drains Xx HP", it doesn't actually drain. It just converts Xx of your normal damage in to HP, so it doesn't really increase the damage done at all.

It's short and to the point, which I like, but it's clearly an assertion without any qualifier of being opinion or casual observation. At this point, I'm only interested in if he is correct. That would change the proper use of Drain Samba in a pt. My assumption that it works like the Drain spell and always does damage (or in this case does damage at all) would mean that it should ideally always be active. If it does no damage, then it's only useful when characters have taken damage.

My response:

If that is the case, then it works differently than the other drain abilities/spells in the game. Which is entirely possible, since DNC is really different from any other job in the game. How have you verified your information?

I think that my response was polite and open-minded, and I think most people would agree. I concede that he could be correct, but I obviously need/want some form of proof. I was not the only one to ask for some form of verification, but I won't drag anyone else into this.

The response (to someone else's request for verification):

Yes, I know how the spell works.

And its quite noticeable when soloing as DNC at lvl 5 when you first get it. Mobs die just as quick (I usually lvl naked pre-10 since I solo), and a drain effect of 7 that I quite often got, should have been a rather great deal of a mob's HP% at that lvl.

That, and the people at BG seem to have noticed the same thing. Don't think any tests have been done, but if it truely did drain for real, it would have been really noticeable at lvl 5 when you first got it.

Now this is what irked me. Notice the impolite and arrogant opening line, "Yes, I know how the spell works." Followed up by undeniable proof? NO, of course not. When you have that strong of a stance, the obvious strength of your conviction should be enough to reassure others. So, it's followed by a personal report of casual observation. And although that should be enough for any skeptic, he throws in the old "and others agree with me" line.
This wasn't even directed at me and it pissed me off.

So this is where I have a bug up my ass, and it starts to show. At least I have a suggestion of how to resolve the dispute:

Ok, so it's your informed opinion that it doesn't drain additional HP. Looks like it's something for someone with time on their hands to go out and prove. Just kill something with a set and known amount of HP with Drain Samba up, add up the melee damage, show that the total melee damage equals the mob's HP and BOOM... undeniable proof. I'm not saying you are wrong, I'm just saying that you have class 5 proof, ie. "trust me, I have no data but I have personal experience."

To respond, he quotes someone else who agrees with him, but posts no proof. (Again not included to avoid entangling others.)

And I'm not alone. A lot of people noticed that about it.

Again, no substantive response... but here comes another unnamed person with the answer:

Test was done by somebody on alla
http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/db/jobs.h...34831225516727

Followed by my response:

This is proof:

Originally Posted by Name withheld View Post
Test was done by somebody on alla
http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/db/jobs.h...34831225516727

...assuming the person with the original post didn't screw anything up, but it seems fine. Saying, "I noticed something and others agree with me" is not proof.

It turns out you were correct. However, lots of people noticed gravity a long time ago, but only Isaac Newton gets the credit.

Yeah, I'm not being polite anymore, but if I just say "ok, that's that," then it's over. I started out just wanting to know the truth; however I have a new point to make, the point I made at the start of this thread.

A few more posts were made, but neither one of us really drove the message home. I'll try to be more concise here. It's all about attitude, courtesy, and knowing the difference between fact and opinion. If you want to state an opinion, go for it! Just identify it as such, don't try to pass it off as the final word. And most importantly, don't be rude or arrogant about it.

I won't waste my time to prove what I know to please others.

 

[Uzor]

Ok, let's see if we can wrap this up in less than one page.

Here's a re-cap, not intended to be a full summary of all the post that occurred, but to illustrate my position. My position simply being: If you have an opinion, clearly state it's an opinion and show some courtesy; if you have factual information then link or post some proof; and know the difference between the two. If you want to know why I consider this to be significant, just think of all the 10+ page threads you read, hoping to get good info on the posted topic, but only got a back and forth argument endlessly repeating the same two opposing positions without any real info.

This is the part of my initial post regarding the DNC job that started this ordeal. (Notice how it's clearly labeled as "my thoughts/observations".)



Someone asked a question regarding how effective Drain Samba was as a healing adjunct, and I responded in part with this line.



After a few posts, Uzor had something to say (included in his post was a quote of my post above):



It's short and to the point, which I like, but it's clearly an assertion without any qualifier of being opinion or casual observation. At this point, I'm only interested in if he is correct. That would change the proper use of Drain Samba in a pt. My assumption that it works like the Drain spell and always does damage (or in this case does damage at all) would mean that it should ideally always be active. If it does no damage, then it's only useful when characters have taken damage.

My response:



I think that my response was polite and open-minded, and I think most people would agree. I concede that he could be correct, but I obviously need/want some form of proof. I was not the only one to ask for some form of verification, but I won't drag anyone else into this.

The response (to someone else's request for verification):



Now this is what irked me. Notice the impolite and arrogant opening line, "Yes, I know how the spell works." Followed up by undeniable proof? NO, of course not. When you have that strong of a stance, the obvious strength of your conviction should be enough to reassure others. So, it's followed by a personal report of casual observation. And although that should be enough for any skeptic, he throws in the old "and others agree with me" line.
This wasn't even directed at me and it pissed me off.

So this is where I have a bug up my ass, and it starts to show. At least I have a suggestion of how to resolve the dispute:



To respond, he quotes someone else who agrees with him, but posts no proof. (Again not included to avoid entangling others.)



Again, no substantive response... but here comes another unnamed person with the answer:



Followed by my response:



Yeah, I'm not being polite anymore, but if I just say "ok, that's that," then it's over. I started out just wanting to know the truth; however I have a new point to make, the point I made at the start of this thread.

A few more posts were made, but neither one of us really drove the message home. I'll try to be more concise here. It's all about attitude, courtesy, and knowing the difference between fact and opinion. If you want to state an opinion, go for it! Just identify it as such, don't try to pass it off as the final word. And most importantly, don't be rude or arrogant about it.

Just to add in, as you ignore some quotes. The "Yes, I know how the spell works" was in response to Inuabe that said

Where's the proof? I'd like to see some testing results in order to believe this is true.

The spell drain does dmg even if it drains for 0. That alone leaves me inclined to believe that drain samba more or less has the same effect. That doesn't convert dmg, it does the drain even at full. Does drain samba specifically say that it converts dmg into drain on the skill?

which, mind you, is not polite at all. Although I'll excuse you. You just decided it'd be better to ignore some parts of the event in order to make your point more clear. You got butt hurt over being wrong. So its alright.

And yes, you ignore a lot. I did state it was just an opinion. But you're obviously so upset and irked that you took it as proof. And your last quote was the last one I made in that post, which was a response to your last post. GG though.

 

[Fellina]

Wait wait wait . . . so Inuabe asking for proof, in the form of testing results, because drain samba doesn't work in the same manner as other drain effects in the game is rude? Seems to me that the only thing rude about it is that they didn't take your almighty word as proven fact, and asked you to back up your claims.

It's not the fact that you were right and it was proven (by others); it's the fact that you were right but couldn't deign to bother to prove it to us plebes who question you. And then got smarmy about it.

 

[Uzor]

Wait wait wait . . . so Inuabe asking for proof, in the form of testing results, because drain samba doesn't work in the same manner as other drain effects in the game is rude? Seems to me that the only thing rude about it is that they didn't take your almighty word as proven fact, and asked you to back up your claims.

It's not the fact that you were right and it was proven (by others); it's the fact that you were right but couldn't deign to bother to prove it to us plebes who question you. And then got smarmy about it.

No. Not at all. I'm just saying that what Inuabe said was just as rude as what I said.

 

[K. Ishitar]

Then why did osse and fell(and possibly others) feel that your post was rude instead of inuabe's?

Whenever you post, you tend to have an arrogant streak to it, you know and admit it it's something that people have called you before. I'm not really sure if it's just bluntness(something I do often) or intended belittement on another person, I usually just shrug it off since it's not exactly a rare 'syndrome' on this site or any other.

 

[Uzor]

Then why did osse and fell(and possibly others) feel that your post was rude instead of inuabe's?

Whenever you post, you tend to have an arrogant streak to it, you know and admit it it's something that people have called you before. I'm not really sure if it's just bluntness(something I do often) or intended belittement on another person, I usually just shrug it off since it's not exactly a rare 'syndrome' on this site or any other.

I've never denied I'm an arrogant asshole. Nor have I denied that I'm an bastard and a dick. I'm sure I can find a lot of posts of me stating that.

The fact still remain, that Osse was wrong, I was right, and he's butt hurt over it.

And no, more often then not, I don't mean it as belittling. Read the majority of my posts and you'll see that I pretty much always write in that tone. Most likely because I'm an arrogant asshole with a god complex. Or something. Whatever fits you best. I know exactly why, but I'm sure you'll have much more fun thinking of reasons yourself.

I can dig much deeper on the psychological reasons as to WHY a lot of people find everything I write as highly offensive, but I don't think that's needed.

 

[Arctyrael]

To the OP. Beautifully written.
To Uzor. If you have no problem with how people perceive you more power to you.

Courtesy and general politeness has long since been gone from QCDN. Sad really.

 

[Morari]

The fact still remain, that Osse was wrong, I was right,

Um, dude, that was never truly in contention. If you think you can take a moderately complex problems ("the difference between fact and opinion" and "the importance of backing up statements with proof") and simplify it to "I'm right, you're wrong" then it seems you have a some deal of emotional maturity issues to work out.

Humility goes a long way in winning people over.... which, if you want people to believe what you say and act accordingly, is paramount, right?

 

[Uzor]

Um, dude, that was never truly in contention. If you think you can take a moderately complex problems ("the difference between fact and opinion" and "the importance of backing up statements with proof") and simplify it to "I'm right, you're wrong" then it seems you have a some deal of emotional maturity issues to work out.

Humility goes a long way in winning people over.... which, if you want people to believe what you say and act accordingly, is paramount, right?

No. But that's why he's angry. He'd never have made this topic had I been wrong. And yes, I've admitted to being wrong a lot of times before.

And I never said I had proof. I simply said that it, indeed, does not drain. And since I was rather sure I were right, due to personal experience and having also read it from other sources, I didn't bother making an experiment to see if it was correct. Just how I don't bother to check if INT truly affects resist rate, as I believe it does not.

If someone is so hell-bent of going against popular opinion, they're more then welcome to waist their time in doing so and prove themselves right. I, however, have other things to do.

 

[Myrrh]

It has nothing to do with him being wrong, you idiot. A question about Drain was asked and you just said something without proof when it was still on the fence whether or not that's how it worked.

Just because you know it to be right from person exp, then good for you. But some people want more then just baseless statements.

The earth is round because I say so.

See, just because I'm right doesn't mean other people are going to believe me. Facts help back up statements.

The Earth is round because *info from sites, and all that other crap*

That would make people believe me.

 

[Lecreuset]

Humility goes a long way in winning people over.... which, if you want people to believe what you say and act accordingly, is paramount, right?

Not if you have a tendency to be right.

Just means you're going to catch alot more crap when you're caught being wrong.

Who needs to be humble or win people over to be right?

If you're right, you're right...

Anyway, OP is a longwinded idea of his ideal thread that seems to be a bit much to ask on this forum. This thread makes him look more "butt hurt" about his instance with Uzor than the comments in the other thread.

To the OP, I agree w/Arc, well written.

Though I see it as a wasted effort with the community at large.

You're hoping for too much IMO...

It's QCDN: home of the derail, off-topic discussions and jerkoffs galore.

Welcome. :O <3

 

[Uzor]

It has nothing to do with him being wrong, you idiot. A question about Drain was asked and you just said something without proof when it was still on the fence whether or not that's how it worked.

Just because you know it to be right from person exp, then good for you. But some people want more then just baseless statements.

The earth is round because I say so.

See, just because I'm right doesn't mean other people are going to believe me. Facts help back up statements.

The Earth is round because *info from sites, and all that other crap*

That would make people believe me.

I didn't see a need to prove I was right. Did you miss the three times I said what I said was personal experience. He's yet to answer my question in the other thread, where I told him what I said was fact and proof that it was right. Did you miss the 3 times I also stated that I didn't care whether or not they believed me, that if they wanted fact, they could try it themselves to prove me wrong, or find proof themselves?

Sure, my FIRST post on the matter, where I said "It doesn't drain at all", could be seen as me static facts. But I simply mentioned that it doesn't drain. If someone states "Dagger is the best weapon for NIN", do you go in to complicatedly explain how Katanas are better?

 

[Uzor]

It has nothing to do with him being wrong, you idiot. A question about Drain was asked and you just said something without proof when it was still on the fence whether or not that's how it worked.

Just because you know it to be right from person exp, then good for you. But some people want more then just baseless statements.

The earth is round because I say so.

See, just because I'm right doesn't mean other people are going to believe me. Facts help back up statements.

The Earth is round because *info from sites, and all that other crap*

That would make people believe me.

I didn't see a need to prove I was right. Did you miss the three times I said what I said was personal experience. He's yet to answer my question in the other thread, where I told him what I said was fact and proof that it was right. Did you miss the 3 times I also stated that I didn't care whether or not they believed me, that if they wanted fact, they could try it themselves to prove me wrong, or find proof themselves?

Sure, my FIRST post on the matter, where I said "It doesn't drain at all", could be seen as me static facts. But I simply mentioned that it doesn't drain. If someone states "Dagger is the best weapon for NIN", do you go in to complicatedly explain how Katanas are better?

Just because people are too lazy to read anything not QCDN, doesn't mean everyone is. Just because someone assumes something works one way without trying out the job, doesn't mean that's the way it is. Do I really need to post long complicated posts in the general discussion forum every time I correct someone? Come to think of it, I think I will. That way I can come off even more arrogant. Win-win situation.

 

[Myrrh]

Your Nin comment is just as stupid as you are.

If someone states that Dagger is better for Nin then Katana then not many people will believe them to begin with if they didn't have facts.(You know, the thing you're lacking) But if you felt the need to explain why it isn't better then all you have say is

"Nin has a A- in Katana and a C+ in Dagger. If they used a Dagger then they'd have a smaller list of Ws and Dmg would be lower. More info on how Nin works can be found here
http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Ninja and here http://forums.ffxiclopedia.org/viewforum.php?f=12&sid=6d544837c0cc2db760e48d58ffd82eff . I'm sure if you have anymore question, these people could answer you aswell"(Don't really know Melee or anything but A- beats a C+ anyday so even if it was a new person they could understand it)

Not long or winded at all. Simple, to the point, and this way everyone knows you're right. Just because you think you're right doesn't always mean you are.

And if it's your own personal Exp then you could post a pic of you hitting things as Dnc. "See, no extra dmg has or is being dealt. I watched the Hp between every hit to make sure"

If you don't care about you being write or wrong then shut up.

 

[Osse]

I didn't see a need to prove I was right. Did you miss the three times I said what I said was personal experience. He's yet to answer my question in the other thread, where I told him what I said was fact and proof that it was right. Did you miss the 3 times I also stated that I didn't care whether or not they believed me, that if they wanted fact, they could try it themselves to prove me wrong, or find proof themselves?

I'm actually unconcerned about being wrong. I now know the truth, and that is all that matters. My point was that you were completely useless in your post, yet somehow felt the need to be rude and arrogant to someone who asked you to back up your statement (and was not at all rude to you). It was your combination or worthlessness and arrogance that ticked me off.

When you make a statement, it is *your* burden of proof. You could have just said it's your opinion, and that also would have been accepted and ended it, but actually you did not. After several requests and someone else did your job for you, you finally admitted you had nothing substantial on which to base your supposed statement of fact. But you didn't do that until it no longer mattered and you had nothing to lose by the admission. It was clearly an effort to strong-arm through your position. I don't care if your opinions are as well thought out as flipping a coin (ie, you'll be right occasionally regardless), but let me know about it so I can disregard you. Form and method matter, if someone else hadn't graciously injected the winning post then Uzor would still have nothing and we'd still not know the truth.

 

[Uzor]

I'm actually unconcerned about being wrong. I now know the truth, and that is all that matters. My point was that you were completely useless in your post, yet somehow felt the need to be rude and arrogant to someone who asked you to back up your statement (and was not at all rude to you). It was your combination or worthlessness and arrogance that ticked me off.

When you make a statement, it is *your* burden of proof. You could have just said it's your opinion, and that also would have been accepted and ended it, but actually you did not. After several requests and someone else did your job for you, you finally admitted you had nothing substantial on which to base your supposed statement of fact. But you didn't do that until it no longer mattered and you had nothing to lose by the admission. It was clearly an effort to strong-arm through your position. I don't care if your opinions are as well thought out as flipping a coin (ie, you'll be right occasionally regardless), but let me know about it so I can disregard you. Form and method matter, if someone else hadn't graciously injected the winning post then Uzor would still have nothing and we'd still not know the truth.

And that is where you are wrong. I never claimed to have proof. I stated it was my own personal experience. A personal experience normally doesn't require proof.

Additionally, if someone want to live in ignorance and don't bother finding the proof themselves (because honestly, I don't care if you chose to live in ignorance by not believing me), then by all means. Go ahead. I'm not forcing you to believe me. I sure as hell won't bother posting any proof, to make you more knowledgeable. I honestly don't give a fuck how stupid people want to be, as long as they don't do it on my time (read: while I'm in a party with them).

 

[Rappa]

because honestly, I don't care if you chose to live in ignorance by not believing me

Why has this gone on for like 3 days if you don't care if anyone believes you? You're putting a shitton of care into not caring.

 

[Morari]

I never claimed to have proof. I stated it was my own personal experience. A personal experience normally doesn't require proof.

Additionally, if someone want to live in ignorance and don't bother finding the proof themselves (because honestly, I don't care if you chose to live in ignorance by not believing me), then by all means. Go ahead. I'm not forcing you to believe me. I sure as hell won't bother posting any proof, to make you more knowledgeable. I honestly don't give a fuck how stupid people want to be, as long as they don't do it on my time (read: while I'm in a party with them).

The truth of the matter is that personal experience IS a form of evidence, a form of proof. Otherwise, why would witnesses be an important part of the judicial process. With that said, personal experience is the weakest form of proof. Going back to the law analogy, when both are present objective proof in the form of forensics is given far more weight than a witness's testimony.

I guess it's funny how people consider that just because this is "just a game" that real world rules don't apply. I mean, if a reporter or scientist makes a claim then they're necessarily shouldering the responsibility of proving their point with something more than "experience." It becomes written off as opinion if they don't.

It's not because people are stupid, and they don't want to learn but that oftentimes they don't have the ability to find out the answers to questions.

Why is the sky blue? What's the current exchange rates between our respective currencies? What are the basic components of a soufflé?

I don't have the facilities or the capabilities to find out those answers myself, so what I do? I have to ask someone who does have the ability to find the answer. (Of course, I have to make the choice whether they are a trustworthy source of information, but that's only tangentially related at the moment.)

The composition of Earth's atmosphere scatters blue light more than others, so wherever we look, that blue light reaches our eyes, and we see the sky as blue.

As of today (Dec 10) one Swedish krona is about 0.1565 American dollars (a little more than 15 cents).

Soufflés are made from beaten egg whites and a base of flavored cream sauce.

I know the answers now, but not because of some simple fiat on the part of my sources, but because they were able to provide as much or as little evidence needed to prove the point.

Back to FFXI~

Does Drain Samba really drain? I don't have this knowledge, and I do not want to just go on face value (I'm too skeptical for that). Nor do I have the knowhow to test it out one way or another. So I defer to people who seem to have the answer.

PlayerX: No. Personal experience.
PlayerY: No. Testing, examination, experience.
PlayerZ: Yes. Personal experience. (ie "Drain" means what it says.)

With the diverse responses to the question, it's up to me to critically examine everything said and to hold on to what's true. I know that I'm more apt to believe rigorous testing over experience.

PlayerY also goes a long way in helping one to understand game mechanics and how to do one's own testing in the future.

When all is said and done, I think the issue is less that you just don't understand, and more that you have an attitude and a somewhat unbalanced ego. Of course, that's just my personal experience, so I'm pretty sure someone could prove me wrong if they want to.

 

[Osse]

I feel this needs to be moved to the Flameboard, we have been on the edge of what is heated debate and what is flaming for some time now. I hope one of the Mods will assist us with that, since it's silly to make yet a 3rd thread on the same topic. I'll respond when that occurs.

Also, in all the times I've disagreed with someone I've never rated anyone down for arguing with me, nor has anyone ever been lame enough to rate me down for arguing with them... until now. I see your rate down and respond in kind, Uzor old buddy. Pointless, huh?

 

[Uzor]

Why has this gone on for like 3 days if you don't care if anyone believes you? You're putting a shitton of care into not caring.

Because this thread is still alive, and I can't resist posting in it. I find great enjoyment in it.

The truth of the matter is that personal experience IS a form of evidence, a form of proof. Otherwise, why would witnesses be an important part of the judicial process. With that said, personal experience is the weakest form of proof. Going back to the law analogy, when both are present objective proof in the form of forensics is given far more weight than a witness's testimony.

I guess it's funny how people consider that just because this is "just a game" that real world rules don't apply. I mean, if a reporter or scientist makes a claim then they're necessarily shouldering the responsibility of proving their point with something more than "experience." It becomes written off as opinion if they don't.

It's not because people are stupid, and they don't want to learn but that oftentimes they don't have the ability to find out the answers to questions.

Why is the sky blue? What's the current exchange rates between our respective currencies? What are the basic components of a soufflé?

I don't have the facilities or the capabilities to find out those answers myself, so what I do? I have to ask someone who does have the ability to find the answer. (Of course, I have to make the choice whether they are a trustworthy source of information, but that's only tangentially related at the moment.)

The composition of Earth's atmosphere scatters blue light more than others, so wherever we look, that blue light reaches our eyes, and we see the sky as blue.

As of today (Dec 10) one Swedish krona is about 0.1565 American dollars (a little more than 15 cents).

Soufflés are made from beaten egg whites and a base of flavored cream sauce.

I know the answers now, but not because of some simple fiat on the part of my sources, but because they were able to provide as much or as little evidence needed to prove the point.

Back to FFXI~

Does Drain Samba really drain? I don't have this knowledge, and I do not want to just go on face value (I'm too skeptical for that). Nor do I have the knowhow to test it out one way or another. So I defer to people who seem to have the answer.

PlayerX: No. Personal experience.
PlayerY: No. Testing, examination, experience.
PlayerZ: Yes. Personal experience. (ie "Drain" means what it says.)

With the diverse responses to the question, it's up to me to critically examine everything said and to hold on to what's true. I know that I'm more apt to believe rigorous testing over experience.

PlayerY also goes a long way in helping one to understand game mechanics and how to do one's own testing in the future.

When all is said and done, I think the issue is less that you just don't understand, and more that you have an attitude and a somewhat unbalanced ego. Of course, that's just my personal experience, so I'm pretty sure someone could prove me wrong if they want to.

No, you yet again misunderstood me. Do I need to repeat myself yet again? Its not that I actually tried to prove my claim. Its that I said it simply didn't drain. I don't care if I prove myself right or not, as I know what I said is true. Whether or not people want to believe me is entirely up to them. If they need proof, they can go find it themselves. Because honestly, I am WAY too lazy to help someone find the information they require.

You keep repeating that what I said wasn't proof enough. Yes, I know. And I don't care. I'll say it again: if you want proof for what I say, you can find it yourself. I don't care whether or not you believe me, and I won't waste my time to prove to you that I am correct.

And yes, your experience is right. I have an attitude. I'm a self-centered bastard. I'm arrogant. And yes, I would say I have a case of god complex. I admit, I think myself better then most other people. That's why I have a very strong allegiance to those I consider my friends and linkshell members (unless they are complete morons), as those are the only ones I consider to be at the same level as myself. The others I don't care much for at all, as they're lower than me. Thus why I'm often seen hanging around the flameboard, starting arguments out of nothing (and why I take great enjoyment out of this thread.), and can often stick up for linkshell members (such as Hellstorm, when he used to be in the same shell as me), fur the most pointless reasons, as I find it very entertaining. Its a form of entertainment, and quite frankly, I think its fun. Very fun.

Yes, I have issues. No, I don't want them fixed. Yes, I enjoy who I am.

Yesh, I did rate you down Osse. I need to spread reputation around so I can rate people that post funnies up again ^^ I can't rate Jamal up for posting a funny >.< says I need to spread reputation around =/ How many do I have to rate before I can do that again?