Leaders/Members of Effortless Dynamis may want to step up.

[Kire]

First, it's very common to lose claim for split seconds. Even with DOT on it.

Second, it's rare for voter turnout rates to get over even 50%.

did not say 100% votes heck no never happen
but every one rank 6 lv 65+ has not said yes the QCDN dy time list is what i will go by. Alot on QCDN do not even use it, heck alot of people on QCDN mebers never post.

So this "mob rules" is like what 5-10% of the population? there other 85%-90% have more right then this 5-10% if it is "mob rules" and now alot of 360 players are going to be doing this and the cap for area is 64 people (or close to maybe 62 idk)
more LSes will come up, more people will want to do same times. Why do same times? Resson those LS do those times it works for there RL time table etc.

 

[Calv/Godofdeath]

You are correct in saying the zone belongs to noone, but very wrong when you say Effortless was no way in the wrong. Dynamis shells are tryinh to work together and avoid this kind of instance. They make it clear which cities they want to do within a month. So other Linkshells won't just pop up there and hold back a Linkshell. It may not always be benefical to your Linkshell 'cause soandso Linkshell wants to do a certain zone and so does your Linkshell but this at least lets you plan ahead and know one Linkshell is just going to be standing outside the zone picking their noses and scratching their asses and actually going to a different zone and accomplishing something. Getting some AF2 and coins for their members.

New Linkshells have every right to start up as they please, but they should also recognize there is a schedule of events. As you said, they DON'T have to visit this site, this site is required to play the game, but do you seriously think not one of their members reads/posts here? I can actually answer that for you... seeing as how one of their co-leaders made a post on this thread. So they knew in full well what they were doing. That's what is getting lolDynamis' panties all bunched up. I'm sure if noone knew or had a way of knowing a Linkshell's dynamis run and they bumped into eachother it would be a different story. They would have had no idea and couldn't exactly plan it out. But since there is a system and seems to have been working thus far... there's noone to blame but Effortless.

As far as QCDN being law... I lol, but reputation/courtesy/bad playing does get passed from ear to ear from members to members and it just shows whos a jackass and whos decent. I know feel sorry for all members of Effortless and any plans they have in the future now that all the older shells know how they act.

 

[Calv/Godofdeath]

baj if you lose a HNM for 1 second that LS sucks have 1 person spam dia during the fight is easy enough

I would say stick to commenting on stuff you actually know about, but you really don't know much bout this game other then gil sellers and level whoring...

 

[Kire]

Edit: NVM calv made a spelling mistake and toke it wrong way from negative to postive

 

[Calv/Godofdeath]

Yea that was suppose to be isn't as you can see by the comment before it...

 

[Lavi]

Yeah, you're just calling the people who are working with others so that everyone benefits selfish. While there's technically nothing wrong with it, just like stealing a HNM that goes unclaimed for a split-second is "technically" ok according to SE, the immorality of it is obvious. You're saying that despite how morally wrong it was, how they're ignoring everyone else for their own benefit, how they screwed over 50+ people last night, that it's still perfectly ok for them to act that way? And you're calling me the idiot too. :wacko:

You're the one saying your standard of morality is the ONLY one. Some countries consider marrying of the daughter at the age of 13 while others consider it completely objectionable. Some say eye for an eye, while others say eye for an eye will make everyone blind. I am saying, they are in no way bound by your system. It's YOUR system, not theirs. They obviously didn't like the system so they chose to not use it. They don't see it as screwing over 50+ people, they see it as making their shell work. From their perspective, they did what they needed to do for their shell. From yours, they did something to screw over lolDynamis. To be honest, I have yet to see definitive proof that lolDynamis actually did anything to work this out. Did they even offer to move to another entrance so that Effortless could have a starter city? Or did they just say "hey you can't do that"? So far all I have gotten from 13 pages is "we got screwed" without any actual details and while I don't disagree lolDynamis did get screwed, did they actually take any measures to try and work things out before it came to this? For all I know, Effortless could have talked to lolDynamis, their suggestions fell on deaf ears and this was the only recourse besides having no run at all.

 

[Kire]

You're the one saying your standard of morality is the ONLY one. Some countries consider marrying of the daughter at the age of 13 while others consider it completely objectionable. Some say eye for an eye, while others say eye for an eye will make everyone blind. I am saying, they are in no way bound by your system. It's YOUR system, not theirs. They obviously didn't like the system so they chose to not use it. They don't see it as screwing over 50+ people, they see it as making their shell work. From their perspective, they did what they needed to do for their shell. From yours, they did something to screw over lolDynamis. To be honest, I have yet to see definitive proof that lolDynamis actually did anything to work this out. Did they even offer to move to another entrance so that Effortless could have a starter city? Or did they just say "hey you can't do that"? So far all I have gotten from 13 pages is "we got screwed" without any actual details and while I don't disagree lolDynamis did get screwed, did they actually take any measures to try and work things out before it came to this? For all I know, Effortless could have talked to lolDynamis, their suggestions fell on deaf ears and this was the only recourse besides having no run at all.

People keep saying that its a old LS and they have more rights, if they are a old LS they should mentor the new LSs take 1-3 good people from the old LSes put them in the new ones for a week or 2 so they know how to get wins for there LS and get out of the cities so its more flexable

Cythe is pissed has a right to be but the new LS might of been pissed that they can not do times they want to, so things will have to change for BOTH lses not just the new one.

 

[Halifirien]

It's YOUR system, not theirs. They obviously didn't like the system so they chose to not use it.

My point is the broader community has ways of making them conform. You seem to keep ignoring that point.

 

[Kire]

My point is the broader community has ways of making them conform. You seem to keep ignoring that point.

err community? how many people have signed something saying yes i agree that this DY time table is what i will go by? None in fact.

 

[Halifirien]

err community? how many people have signed something saying yes i agree that this DY time table is what i will go by? None in fact.

The linkshells who create and abide by the schedules posted here at QCDN would come close.

Look, I'm not calling for an all-out war on these poor deluded schmucks. It's just that you and Lavi seem to be arguing this "Well, what're you gonna do? These kids today..." sentiment about their actions.

It's entirely possible they simply don't care to play by the rules established by the dynamis shells, and as been pointed out ad nauseum by you and Lavi they'd be within their rights. I'm just saying they ignore the system at their peril.

 

[Elemmire]

Lavi, look back on the thread, A CO-LEADER OF EFFORTLESS POSTED HERE AND STILL MADE NO EFFORT TO WORK THINGS OUT! THere was no PM to anyone in lolDynamis. No /tell from anyone in loldynamis until the time came when lolDynamis was gathering and they had already entered, they told lolDynamis they'd get out when lolDynamis was completely ready, even then, lolDynamis had to wait 40 minutes after being ready before they could enter. You are a fool.. this isn't just ONE person's or ONE LSs system of morals (and it's more than morals.. it's guidelines, close to being rules the current Dynamis LSs on Quetzalcoatl on the North American speaking side, which includes European shells, have agreed to and could come talk about if they want).. it's a WHOLE GROUP.. the, as I said, group of english speaking dynamis linkshells working together coming to this site to work things out. There are many linkshell leaders that don't post here often but still make it their responsibility to come at least once a month and post in advance to schedule things and make sure there are no conflicts and conflicts are worked out. The truth is, the majority of quetzalcoatl DOES know about this forum and the majority does come and check. Chances are, in very short time, word will get to a dynamis LS leader of where they could get recruits. Here, is one good source of players to come for recruits. While coming they can see there's a dynamis forum that is used to schedule and such. Most know about the dynamis schedule forum already and most will tell a LS leader about it when they start a shell (atleast I've witnessed from a the linkshells that have started up since the creation of the dynamis forum). It's not like you can use the excuse "oh well there was no way they could find out" because, chances are, there will be a person that is in the LS or has a friend in the LS that checks here and will see these kind of threads or things being brought up. It's obvious they did what they did on purpose and made no effort to work things out when they could have days before. Granted, there's still a chance there was a misunderstanding between their leaders, if that's true, that's too bad. But they obviously knew of this forum and the problem as the co-leader of the shell posted here. Since it's a co-leader the co-leader should've been able to work things out, but nothing was worked out.

Edit: I hate my internet.. sooo much

 

[Lavi]

I'm not implying the entire server would have to be involved, but the 5-6 linkshells who normally run at that hour and would potentially be inconvenienced by their lack of courtesty could certainly run them out of that time slot if they refused to play nice and you know it.

That quote was in reference to Ele. She has stated something about linkshells working together on an MPK attempt and while that is admirable, that is nowhere close to making a community standard that everyone will abide by.

The thing I am against is that you all make a standard expecting everyone to abide by it when you are by no means the entire community. You may think you are, but in reality, you are just a small portion. There are 3,850 posters, a majority are less than frequent posters and a lot rarely even post. Very little Japanese membership and the entire server populace is probably around 6-7k, maybe 8k. You set up rules and think people have to follow them and it may or may not be in their best interest to do so, but it doesn't mean they have to. Why does ignoring the schedule of a forum which you have no obligation to use or listen to, make someone morally wrong? For many including myself, I find that what they did WAS wrong, but that doesn't mean they or everyone else will as well.

 

[Marajade]

My point is the broader community has ways of making them conform. You seem to keep ignoring that point.

if you people want to waste 2-3m every 3 days to keep them out of dynamis, enjoy.

 

[Bajaratt]

You're the one saying your standard of morality is the ONLY one. Some countries consider marrying of the daughter at the age of 13 while others consider it completely objectionable. Some say eye for an eye, while others say eye for an eye will make everyone blind. I am saying, they are in no way bound by your system. It's YOUR system, not theirs. They obviously didn't like the system so they chose to not use it. They don't see it as screwing over 50+ people, they see it as making their shell work. From their perspective, they did what they needed to do for their shell. From yours, they did something to screw over lolDynamis. To be honest, I have yet to see definitive proof that lolDynamis actually did anything to work this out. Did they even offer to move to another entrance so that Effortless could have a starter city? Or did they just say "hey you can't do that"? So far all I have gotten from 13 pages is "we got screwed" without any actual details and while I don't disagree lolDynamis did get screwed, did they actually take any measures to try and work things out before it came to this? For all I know, Effortless could have talked to lolDynamis, their suggestions fell on deaf ears and this was the only recourse besides having no run at all.

I'm going to ignore your attempts to cloud the morality of their actions, since all you really have to go on is "that's just their way," which isn't a defense at all. That's like saying murder is fine for some people, because it's alright to their set of morals; it's a stupid argument that only shows how desperate you are for some kind of position to defend from.

You're still trying to portray lolDynamis as the bad guys in this, apparently you're so desperate to make them look bad you're just throwing anything out there. You're saying that despite having scheduled the zone, having respected the community's rules for MONTHS, that the established shell should just move aside for the new one that just wondered in and decided they wanted the zone too, without any care for who was there already? There's a difference between being nice and being a doormat, and you obviously want the older shells to be doormats for the newer ones. Effortless made ZERO attempts to correct their mistake, once they found out there was a conflict, they chose to take the wrong way out and just take the zone without any regard for the linkshell that was supposed to be there. You're completely ignoring any wrongdoing on the part of effortless and shoving every bit of bullshit blame you can on lolDynamis, it's not going to work, you're just looking like a fool with a grudge.

 

[CmdrFly]

I'm not implying the entire server would have to be involved, but the 5-6 linkshells who normally run at that hour and would potentially be inconvenienced by their lack of courtesty could certainly run them out of that time slot if they refused to play nice and you know it.

This only starts a domino stack. If every Monday LS ensured they couldn't do a run then, they would move on to Tuesday. Tuesday folks arent expecting it, they're pushed out of their scheduled zone, shabam we begin again.

As much as nut-flexing works in rl, I dont foresee it working here. You can shout at, harass, do whatever you want to the new kid who doesnt know the rules - but when he doesn't have to deal with you face-to-face in order to play on your grounds, he can pretend to be 600ft tall and made of mobluminiumianinnium. Then what? You pretend to be 650... he pretends to be 700.. etc etc.

Some people may not like it, but a diplomatic approach to this is the only one I think will work. Of course, that's assuming the 'antagonistic' shells will send us a diplomat to deal with...

 

[Elemmire]

That quote was in reference to Ele. She has stated something about linkshells working together on an MPK attempt and while that is admirable, that is nowhere close to making a community standard that everyone will abide by.

The thing I am against is that you all make a standard expecting everyone to abide by it when you are by no means the entire community. You may think you are, but in reality, you are just a small portion. There are 3,850 posters, a majority are less than frequent posters and a lot rarely even post. Very little Japanese membership and the entire server populace is probably around 6-7k, maybe 8k. You set up rules and think people have to follow them and it may or may not be in their best interest to do so, but it doesn't mean they have to. Why does ignoring the schedule of a forum which you have no obligation to use or listen to, make someone morally wrong? For many including myself, I find that what they did WAS wrong, but that doesn't mean they or everyone else will as well.

See, not true.. go do a search... there are maybe.. hmm 3000 people on at a time. I'd estimate there are about 5000 players currently paying and playing (Frequently) on quetzalcoatl. Majority of the server does come here, even Japanese players. Just cause they don't post doesn't mean they don't come and check every now and then. There's also alla and KI (well I think KI is dead or dying) that we could expand on and put the dynamis schedule up on too. There really aren't THAT many people (and aren't that many 65+ people doing dynamis) on quetzy that don't come here.

This only starts a domino stack. If every Monday LS ensured they couldn't do a run then, they would move on to Tuesday. Tuesday folks arent expecting it, they're pushed out of their scheduled zone, shabam we begin again.

As much as nut-flexing works in rl, I dont foresee it working here. You can shout at, harass, do whatever you want to the new kid who doesnt know the rules - but when he doesn't have to deal with you face-to-face in order to play on your grounds, he can pretend to be 600ft tall and made of mobluminiumianinnium. Then what? You pretend to be 650... he pretends to be 700.. etc etc.

Some people may not like it, but a diplomatic approach to this is the only one I think will work. Of course, that's assuming the 'antagonistic' shells will send us a diplomat to deal with...

you're assuming the shell would last that long to keep trying for new time or so. Eventually they'll give up and disband most likely or move to a time during a day where there are very few on like the afternoon instead of the night.

 

[Halifirien]

if you people want to waste 2-3m every 3 days to keep them out of dynamis, enjoy.

Don't have to worry about me doing something like that. A) I'm not an officer of the linkshell and don't make anything approaching those kinds of decisions and B) I'm a cheap bastard.

I'm not that worried about this new shell because I imagine they'll fall in line eventually and start working with the system set up here and spare everyone a lot of grief and bad karma.

The only thing I take exception to is Lavi's arguement that there's nothing that can or should be done (a notion she doesn't even believe, but is only arguing for the fun of it) to make them fall in step with a system that's been in place for months. Something can be done. Sure, it's extremely unlikely, but that doesn't mean it's impossible.

 

[Anaeran]

This situation is retarded and its pissing me off just reading about it. I posted somewhat in defense of a new linkshell prior to the cockblocking and absolutely immature, selfish behavior demonstrated by this group.

Kougaiji was pulled into my shell for a period of time by a RL best friend who is a loyal member with us. He only ever showed up to Dynamis he needed af2 from. He showed up frequently to the jeuno runs only (after getting his other pieces elsewhere) until finally I kicked him. Its obvious he wants his drop there. His schedule is jeuno for a month with this new group. Clearly these are self-driven motives (and i suppose that's his business and shouldn't play a role in deciding zone rights), but he's about to slander the names of the rest of the poor folks he managed to suck in unless something is worked out asap.

Cythe's group has been running for a long time. They have that timeslot locked down. They are established, well-known players. New shells- work with them on the scheduling or don't run at all. Its called respect for your fellow players. If the new team had a dynamis-sized group (an alliance at least) it may be a slightly different story, but this is an obvious cockblock situation. Not the way to go about your business new guys.

If you want to f*ck with the good guys who took the time to work things out with their peers, come prepared to get f*cked with in return. I guarantee you don't want to get f*cked with by the big boys. They will beat you every time. There are better ways to get what you want new folks.

There's no way this should be 6000 pages long right now. I don't know how much this will help the situation, but the lack of respect some people show these days is sickening. So rather than continue to drag this out in a moral debate, why don't we take steps to fix it:

Solution:

Talk with each other in the game (leader to leader), not on these forums where the trolls can throw the negotiations off. Old shell- keep in mind, new shells need a shot too. New shell- remember you're not established yet. 12 people aren't going to do much in dynamis. You should be working *with* the older leaders to learn the ropes rather than trying to screw them out of their scheduled timeslots. More will be accomplished this way for both sides and we won't have a billion posts to read through about how someone isn't respecting someone elses gameplay.

If this discussion does end up happening and needs neutral mediation i'd be happy to donate my time to the cause if both sides are willing to negotiate. Just let me know when and where it will take place and I'm there.

 

[Lavi]

I'm going to ignore your attempts to cloud the morality of their actions, since all you really have to go on is "that's just their way," which isn't a defense at all. That's like saying murder is fine for some people, because it's alright to their set of morals; it's a stupid argument that only shows how desperate you are for some kind of position to defend from.

You're still trying to portray lolDynamis as the bad guys in this, apparently you're so desperate to make them look bad you're just throwing anything out there. You're saying that despite having scheduled the zone, having respected the community's rules for MONTHS, that the established shell should just move aside for the new one that just wondered in and decided they wanted the zone too, without any care for who was there already? There's a difference between being nice and being a doormat, and you obviously want the older shells to be doormats for the newer ones. Effortless made ZERO attempts to correct their mistake, once they found out there was a conflict, they chose to take the wrong way out and just take the zone without any regard for the linkshell that was supposed to be there. You're completely ignoring any wrongdoing on the part of effortless and shoving every bit of bullshit blame you can on lolDynamis, it's not going to work, you're just looking like a fool with a grudge.

Again, you are missing everything. It's ok to have your 13 year old daughter married off to a stranger in some countries, illegal in ours. Is it morally wrong? Seriously, is it morally wrong? From our point of view, yes; theirs, no. But since we are talking about murders, let's continue with it. In the United States, murder is illegal. I am sure you at least know that much. IN Final Fantasy XI, entering a dynamis zone when another linkshell has a scheduled run on an UNOFFICIAL FFXI forum, is strangely enough, not. Now, if we were to ask an impartial GM, what he would say on the subject, he'd probably say something to the extent "That sucks but there is nothing we can do, it's part of the game". You can tell him all about your QCDN schedule all you want, but he'll still tell you the same thing. Why? Because your unofficial FFXI forum has no power or authority to make those choices for people. See, we all pay the same 12.95 each month and we all can do as we please.

I am not blaming lolDynamis for this either. I may have come off like that which wasn't my intent; however, certain facts were mentioned vaguely but never fully specified exactly what happened like how Elemmire keeps mentioning talking to Effortless, but never exactly what was said. I don't suggest lolDynamis move aside for the new shells, it might have helped the situation a bit, but they were never obligated to do so. However, you imply that somehow having spent several months doing dynamis and having used the dynamis scheduling forum affords them more power and control of where they get scheduled and why do they get more rights? The people in Effortless pay the same 12.95 a month everyone in lolDynamis does. Unless there is something I missed. Am I paying for the basic service still and everyone else has the upgraded package? And last I knew, it wasn't mandatory to use the QCDN forums for my travels in the Quetzacoatl server.

So how can you tell me that those Cythe owned that zone? You cannot. There isn't one shred of evidence to support him owning that zone except outside of common courtesy to him which I have time and again shown people are not obligated to show. The same courtesy you neglected me the second I posted in the thread and claimed I was a troll for demonstrating a dissenting opinion which if you even read, I don't entirely agree with. If you cannot even afford me a little courtesy on a simple thread which I never attacked you (until you attacked me), I don't see how you can expect Effortless to show any either.

 

[Brin]

If you want to f*ck with the good guys who took the time to work things out with their peers, come prepared to get f*cked with in return. I guarantee you don't want to get f*cked with by the big boys. They will beat you every time. There are better ways to get what you want new folks.

QFT!!