Live and Let Die Jamal Pt. 2

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OMG I am not even involved and I AM FURIOUS


This is the absolute worst way to handle this, its like the vietnam monk who torched himself to oppose the government except this is over the last cookie in the jar.

OMG WHY DID YOU DO THAT!?!?!?!

The worst part is SnB, already angered by the shadiness you examplified is comprised by some of the nicest most helpful people on the server, and you just guaranteed that none of them or their friends will ever, ever, associate of deal with you.

If this game is worth anything to you anymore, I would just cough up the 25 dollars and hop servers.
 
Whats with the mass post deletion?
 
PC+1s mostly, as pointed out in the rules for the flameboard that people have probably just skipped over.
 
motley said:
OMG I am not even involved and I AM FURIOUS


This is the absolute worst way to handle this, its like the vietnam monk who torched himself to oppose the government except this is over the last cookie in the jar.

OMG WHY DID YOU DO THAT!?!?!?!

The worst part is SnB, already angered by the shadiness you examplified is comprised by some of the nicest most helpful people on the server, and you just guaranteed that none of them or their friends will ever, ever, associate of deal with you.

If this game is worth anything to you anymore, I would just cough up the 25 dollars and hop servers.
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Honestly, I dont believe he should have to jump servers for this, think about it, if he keeps it, this BS just keeps going. Jamal is out for blood over this and until someone gets hurt (maybe not physically or anything) this will not end. If he returns it, he would be validating everything Jamal has been saying about Hollie and his friends being trash and whatnot (and i know a few of these people so I know they aint trash), and finally, tossing the item makes it so that neither of these scenarios play out. The item is lost forever now and let it serve as a learning opportunity for all.
 
motley said:
OMG I am not even involved and I AM FURIOUS


This is the absolute worst way to handle this, its like the vietnam monk who torched himself to oppose the government except this is over the last cookie in the jar.

OMG WHY DID YOU DO THAT!?!?!?!

The worst part is SnB, already angered by the shadiness you examplified is comprised by some of the nicest most helpful people on the server, and you just guaranteed that none of them or their friends will ever, ever, associate of deal with you.

If this game is worth anything to you anymore, I would just cough up the 25 dollars and hop servers.
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well did a /sea all a few mins ago and he isn't online currently so if he did drop it he wouldn't have an ss.

but really I am pretty disappointed in you hollie the above pretty much sums my sentiments.
 
Miros said:
PC+1s mostly, as pointed out in the rules for the flameboard that people have probably just skipped over.
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nah dude i really hoped he deleted his char. that wasnt a pc+1.
 
So, just to make sure I'm followin' this correctly... Someone who thinks people should be equally rewarded despite their time and dedication/lack of dedication is stupid, I mean upset? So far, am I good?
 
I'm sorry Miros for all the Issues don't blame Kotsu for my issues. He was just defending a friend. I would just switch servers motly but I've got about 8 RL friends and family that play on this server in which case thier names will remain classified so thier fun isnt sucked out of this game like it has been for me. I thought this was a dead issue months ago but I guess not. I'm just deleting my account. not worth dealing with the people so upset about 1 piece of equipment thats a more expensive less accurate hecatomb harness
 
Hollie said:
I'm sorry Miros for all the Issues don't blame Kotsu for my issues. He was just defending a friend. I would just switch servers motly but I've got about 8 RL friends and family that play on this server in which case thier names will remain classified so thier fun isnt sucked out of this game like it has been for me. I thought this was a dead issue months ago but I guess not. I'm just deleting my account. not worth dealing with the people so upset about 1 piece of equipment thats a more expensive less accurate hecatomb harness
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Dude, no need to go to such extremes. Don't let others dictate HOW to play this game. Some of us do it for fun, others.......well not so much. Quitting the game isnt the answer, nor is jumping servers.

Shame on you all for recommending that kind of shit honestly. Yes, some of you may say "The 'I'ts only a game excuse' isn't valid" well guess what, IT IS VALID because lo and behold, THIS IS A GAME!!!! The day SE decides to pull the plug on this game, there is nothing me or any of you can do to stop them.
 
Hexx said:
Honestly, I dont believe he should have to jump servers for this, think about it, if he keeps it, this BS just keeps going. Jamal is out for blood over this and until someone gets hurt (maybe not physically or anything) this will not end. If he returns it, he would be validating everything Jamal has been saying about Hollie and his friends being trash and whatnot (and i know a few of these people so I know they aint trash), and finally, tossing the item makes it so that neither of these scenarios play out. The item is lost forever now and let it serve as a learning opportunity for all.
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I completely understand what youre saying, and it does prevent both the scenarios you described from playing out, but I think this issue still ahd some details to be hammered out. Details that could've made the situation come to an amicable end.

For instance, I was thinking... if SnB's rules does quote that all gear is for the betterment of the shell then thats means the mail belongs to them. HOWEVER, when the shell flipped to the point system then the binding agreement made by everyone needed to be re-made. If hollie was unhappy with the implementation of a point system WHICH was not the terms on which he originally signed up on, then the terms that benefit the LS shouldn't apply anymore either right?

Unless Hollie, re-agrees to them under the new system. If he doesn't agree to the new system and decides to leave, I believe that any gear he recieved should stay his based on the fact that the LS is the one breaking the original set of terms , not the player.
 
Hexx said:
Dude, no need to go to such extremes. Don't let others dictate HOW to play this game. Some of us do it for fun, others.......well not so much. Quitting the game isnt the answer, nor is jumping servers.

Shame on you all for recommending that kind of shit honestly. Yes, some of you may say "The 'I'ts only a game excuse' isn't valid" well guess what, IT IS VALID because lo and behold, THIS IS A GAME!!!! The day SE decides to pull the plug on this game, there is nothing me or any of you can do to stop them.
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I agree, I apologize to HOllie and all for my recommendations.
 
motley said:
I completely understand what youre saying, and it does prevent both the scenarios you described from playing out, but I think this issue still ahd some details to be hammered out. Details that could've made the situation come to an amicable end.

For instance, I was thinking... if SnB's rules does quote that all gear is for the betterment of the shell then thats means the mail belongs to them. HOWEVER, when the shell flipped to the point system then the binding agreement made by everyone needed to be re-made. If hollie was unhappy with the implementation of a point system WHICH was not the terms on which he originally signed up on, then the terms that benefit the LS shouldn't apply anymore either right?

Unless Hollie, re-agrees to them under the new system. If he doesn't agree to the new system and decides to leave, I believe that any gear he recieved should stay his based on the fact that the LS is the one breaking the original set of terms , not the player.
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Right, exactly, but as Hollie put it earlier, and most people here know Jamal well enough......do you REALLY think the issue would have been dropped if Hollie had returned the armor? So no, I dont think this had an amicable resolution, short of both parties ignoring each other completely to prevent future drama.

Personally, I still think that just by having shown up, everyone in the alliance earned that piece, it all came down to who was luckier on the lot. I DO believe that jumping ship shortly after getting a nice piece of gear is a bad thing to do, but you CANT force people to stay if they dont want to. Whatever bad rep is generated by that action is on THAT person's head and nobody else's.
 
The terms of the system that some point of order would be made to ensure drops were shared fairly to members of the group that put in the time. The points system was inevitable, I posted about it and asked for any other ideas people had.

Remember when this happened, the shell was formed the day of znm release (and sandworm was found to be up).

Points were actually kept for the first week, but since nothing was in stone yet everything was done as free lot as a good will gesture to members.

There was no big implementation of a points system, it was an establishment of the best way to handle a brand new part of the game. SnB did not exist prior to znm's.
 
So let me see... Someone(s) got an item, from a monster that the LS killed, and they got this item under the system in place at the time? And that system had no clause about returning said item?

Sounds like its Hollies Zahak's Mail to do with as he/she wants to, including ditching the shell with it.


The issue is fairly cut and dry people, they didn't ninja it, cheat it, borrow it and not return it, or be leant it by the LS bank with expectation to have it returned. Jamal n co., you're being dicks, and you probably know it. Move on.

Besides, its a fucking Zahak's mail, not an Antares Harness or Ancient Torque. Jeez.
 
jamal said:
The terms of the system that some point of order would be made to ensure drops were shared fairly to members of the group that put in the time. The points system was inevitable, I posted about it and asked for any other ideas people had.

Remember when this happened, the shell was formed the day of znm release (and sandworm was found to be up).

Points were actually kept for the first week, but since nothing was in stone yet everything was done as free lot as a good will gesture to members.

There was no big implementation of a points system, it was an establishment of the best way to handle a brand new part of the game. SnB did not exist prior to znm's.
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I dont think anyone is arguing whether or not the points system was a good way of doing things Jamal, I think the issue at hand is whether or not the Z.Mail lotted and won by Hollie was actually earned. Based on previous posts about the rules you and your group had set, it seems that anyone who showed up could lot at will whatever items dropped off of the NM. The understanding (from what ive understood) is that the gear would belong to the shell, but then when you FULLY implemented the points system, the "Gear belongs to the shell" rule went completely out the window. Im thinking thats SOME of the consensus going on at the moment, but i dont wanna be speaking for others so feel free to speak up yall.
 
The system did have clauses. All drops were for the betterment of the shell, and the shell's property.

Why would everyone understand this except Hollie? This was again, the only event Hollie showed up at. Everything was repeated multiple times at camps.
 
Actually, I had never realized that the mail dropped off a non-ZNM mob....

I dont know if this changes anything but it certainly could add something to the debate.
 
Hexx said:
I dont think anyone is arguing whether or not the points system was a good way of doing things Jamal, I think the issue at hand is whether or not the Z.Mail lotted and won by Hollie was actually earned. Based on previous posts about the rules you and your group had set, it seems that anyone who showed up could lot at will whatever items dropped off of the NM. The understanding (from what ive understood) is that the gear would belong to the shell, but then when you FULLY implemented the points system, the "Gear belongs to the shell" rule went completely out the window. Im thinking thats SOME of the consensus going on at the moment, but i dont wanna be speaking for others so feel free to speak up yall.
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The intentions were to have some type of system. Everyone knew a system was coming. Everyone. Again, I asked the members for a better idea than a points system. Kotsu and Hollie both said they didn't want one, but provided no better feasible solution.
 
motley said:
Actually, I had never realized that the mail dropped off a non-ZNM mob....

I dont know if this changes anything but it certainly could add something to the debate.
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Doesn't change a thing, we've been a ZNM shell that also does Sandworm and Ixion from day 1.
 
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