Lol some thief must have pissed Square off good

[CmdrFly]

Happens 3% of the time? 3% of the time the sword is flat-busted.

3% of the time is hardly something to raise a debate on. This sword will shine very rarely. The examples you're giving of a TA » 3-hit SS » TA will be about as rare as a lv1 bst charming a bird in sky - it can happen, and it's awesome, but you'd have to be 10 types of stupid to expect it to happen.

If the point of your OP was just to admit angst that the above situation can happen, I hate to say it but get used to it. There's all sorts of shit like that in this game, where one job has a slim opportunity to do something completely fucking phenomenal. This is simply another one of those things.

When we triple attack, we get the net effect of one of their hits. When they triple attack, they get the net affect of 9 of our hits. Nine.

...and thf will still top many a parse.

I don't see why you're worried about the DoT vs DoT. Yes, your hits are weak and shitty and pale in comparison to a 2h-wielder (take the weak & shitty part with a grain of salt; I just wanted to sound angry). Yes, our hits are big and ballsy and blow yours out of the water (again, salt » angry). Thf is always, has always been, and will always be about the spike. You get the ridiculously powerful weapon skills and weak DoT, we get the decent to powerful weapon skills and good DoT. But I dare you to parse head-to-head with an equivalently-equipped war or drk - if the party setup allows you to steadily land your SA's & TA's, you will still meet or beat that melee in the final parser results.

Last note; rarity. Algol is not easy to acquire. Blau Dolch is not easy to acquire. Again, I'll put money down that an Algol-wielding war or pld will get smoked by a BD-wielding thf (if BD is a bad weapon to use in this example, replace it with something appropriate - I know dick all about thf weapons).

 

[Peregrine]

Because of the inherent advantage high-delay weapons have regarding double attack, I really do bet a drk/war with this sword would beat a thf/war or thf/nin at average rate of tp gain. Would whip their **** in DoT for sure, and the saddest part is that they'd probably equally compare in weaponskills.

For all the bull**** thief has endured in this update, no matter how small the bull****, their update had better be ridiculous. You don't selectively nerf a job's tp gain that gets no invites anyway, and then give their tp tools away to two-handers.

What'll thieves get in return? 30 seconds of hitting like a dark knight every 2 hours. lol watch. That's what it'll be to make it alllll better.

1 dex isn't 1 dmg on the weaponskill though. That's ridiculously easy to test and shoot down.

I'm not so mad about being whipped in endgame xp parties. Thief has enough assets to make up for that shortcoming. Its that the dev. team is so miserably failing at their attempts to diversify job options and balance job use. And they're failing at the expense of a job that can't really afford to get any lower on the pecking order without going blue collar from birth.

 

[alanon]

Because of the inherent advantage high-delay weapons have regarding double attack, I really do bet a drk/war with this sword would beat a thf/war or thf/nin at average rate of tp gain. Would whip their **** in DoT for sure,

Have no fear! While you are right about the TP gain short term, in the long run, a Drk/War will have the sword Proc at the wrong time and be laying there useless while you are still whacking away!

 

[Peregrine]

See, I'ma add that to the increasing list of thief consolations. Let's see, thieves make up for a lack of usefulness endgame by:

Still being decently useful in xp from 15-about 57, although annoying from 30 on.
TH2, 3, 4.
Flee+1
Evasion soloing up to select VTs
Can still melee when other melee die.

 

[CmdrFly]

Because of the inherent advantage high-delay weapons have regarding double attack, I really do bet a drk/war with this sword would beat a thf/war or thf/nin at average rate of tp gain. Would whip their **** in DoT for sure, and the saddest part is that they'd probably equally compare in weaponskills.

Then our argument is moot; I believe exactly the opposite of what you're saying. A change of 3% TA proc rate is not going to make a drk/war out-TP a thf/anything; it will put the drk ahead one out of every 33 skillchains.

I now realize you're arguing two points - one, the weapon giving +ta. Two, thf getting less TP per round now whilst 2h wielders gain more. I neglected to include the latter in my thoughts as I posted those previous statements, so I'll post no more comments until I witness such first-hand (I have not watched a drk/war TP battle with a thf since the update).

If you're so skronked about Algol though, why not mention the Homam piece as well? That also gives +3% ta I think, and it would allow any job to use their best weapon instead of some great sword with sub-par dmg and useless (aside from the +ta) bonusses.

Between Algol / Homam / Ace's Helm / Bahamut's Legs, I must say drk has been getting some nice TP-building equips lately. The hell are they planning?

I'm not so mad about being whipped in endgame xp parties. Thief has enough assets to make up for that shortcoming. Its that the dev. team is so miserably failing at their attempts to diversify job options and balance job use. And they're failing at the expense of a job that can't really afford to get any lower on the pecking order without going blue collar from birth.

This is a legible argument. This I can agree with. Cant really say anything until we hear more of the job adjustments later, but maybe the future will hold more pld + thf parties (once they unlock Enrage for pld, allowing different sub choices). Whether or not that will outweigh pld/war with no thf, we wont know for some time.

 

[Tagrineth]

1 dex isn't 1 dmg on the weaponskill though. That's ridiculously easy to test and shoot down.

No, no, 1 DMG: on the weapon's stats, not 1 Damage added to the hit. Coupled with the Critical Hit and some additional effect that lifts the normal cap on single hit damage.

 

[Peregrine]

I understand what you said. Dex and agi doesn't convert to DMG. Wear a harpe naked and sneak attack something. Wear an onion knife boosted with 30 dex and sneak attack something.

 

[Peregrine]

Sometimes I wonder how much it would take to put thieves back on-level with the "in" jobs. None of this bull**** equipment swap compensation. No trying to convince people that TH is worth the price. No pointing to the days when viper bite ate your cookies. How much would it take to make thieves equal again?

Sneak attack II? Trick attack II?
Would DOUBLING their weaponskill power post-60 even change the way people act?

I've pretty much decided that it has to be as good as the rng nerf was bad. And for dragoons, that's even worse. They could give them 2 wyverns, and it wouldn't change a thing. Give them 2 more jumps. Still wouldn't. I even bet they could give them tp on penta back. That might EVEN the score. MIGHT.

 

[Tagrineth]

I dunno Pere, I do pretty well in Lufaise on Dragoon. It's a strangely balanced job but once you get the hang of stat balancing it's good.

I think the one thing that would make Dragoon even out with all the other jobs is if Penta Thrust had a higher damage multiplier. Right now it's .75, which is simply too low, especially considering that regardless of TP, hits 2-5 keep that .75 multiplier. If it was .83 like Guillotine it'd be much better.

 

[Tyrath]

just cause it dropped for SOME servers (tcheck blue gartr again.. hardly every server got it) on the first kill... doesn't mean it'll drop THAT much

Ele...the drop rate is easily atleast 50%.

And triple attack 3% isnt a big deal on a great sword? Yeah...ok...keep telling youself that

 

[Skaw]

None of this bull**** equipment swap compensation.

So, you're basically lazy and want everything handed to you? Any melee that equipment swaps for weaponskills and abilities is far better than one that doesn't, regardless of thier relative power. If they boosted thieves, the one that still swaps will trump the one that doesn't.

 

[Peregrine]

Right. There are things in this game that, in spite of what crazy **** you might see, you tell yourself "there's no way in hell I'll ever see that."

Triple attack on a damn dark knight was one of those things.

Am I going to log on one day and see that thieves get swallows, with DMG's in the 70's? Auto double attack proc of 5%? With a 1-hit weaponskill that hits for 1900? ON SKELETONS?

That's what I woke up to today. Except damn, it was a dark knight. Good for the dark knight I suppose. They need it. A level 7 blue mage gets stun every 7 seconds. They're screwed. Up the ass. Sideways. Backwards. Five tiems over. Drks need help. But for ****'s sakes...warrior? That's ridiculous. They get their /nin axes on still, plus greatweapon boosts. They won't use them.

 

[Peregrine]

So, you're basically lazy and want everything handed to you? Any melee that equipment swaps for weaponskills and abilities is far better than one that doesn't, regardless of thier relative power. If they boosted thieves, the one that still swaps will trump the one that doesn't.

Gimp ass with your two swap sets. I have an evasion set. A ranged set. A steal set. A SA set. A TA set. A SATA set. A SATAWS set. TWO SATAWS sets, godammit.

So basically GTFO, busted monk. You don't know **** about swapping for effectiveness. You just engage and get invited.

 

[Peregrine]

A Tp set. Two tp sets really. Based on two foods I eat.
With differential tactics based on what tank we have.
With differential playstyles based on what difficulty the check is.

If that **** isn't enough, thief is broken. It's ok if it's hard, but all this gets me what. Passed over by some buffoon of a monk and a warrior in little more than AF or government-issue cheap acc gear and WTFstats.

 

[Peregrine]

SAWS set. TAWS set...does this need to go on, or can I just assume you're proud of your chi blast swap that's "ahead of the curve"?

I'm blinking like a damn ninja on thief, and all it gets me is lolthf

 

[Alerith]

Drks need help. But for ****'s sakes...warrior? That's ridiculous. They get their /nin axes on still, plus greatweapon boosts. They won't use them.

Maybe this is to offset the "Warrior has to sub ninja or they aren't invited" generalization.

This will open up oppertunities for Warriors to select sub jobs other than ninja.

 

[Peregrine]

Maybe this is to offset the "Warrior has to sub ninja or they aren't invited" generalization.

This will open up oppertunities for Warriors to select sub jobs other than ninja.

Warriors will ignore this update until their axes are nerfed or someone beats their junk with the next best thing. Square is doing nothing but holding on to past mistakes. Greatsword with war/drk/pld...that's just more of the same lipservice to gear-restrictions that they've been screwing up for the past 3 years. To this day drgs and thieves can't wear haubergeons or anything remotely that "melee-y." It's ridiculously pointless, but square will continue to throw them "light gear" until the end of time for no other reason than some idiot decided that a drg can't logically jump without wearing anything but pieces of melee crap. Light melee gear is HORSE SHIT. What the HELL am I going to do with elemental resistance and vitality +2 on my pants? No way am I tanking. No god damn way. Not by intent and certainly not because I do too much damage with this light armor HORSE-SHIT-of-a-gear-selection. It's light gear? Then give me some ****ing haste. OH THAT'S RIGHT HASTE NERFS THIEVES NOW.

Where was I going with that...right. This isn't a warrior sword. Warriors will laugh and ignore this. The dev. took their time to try to be consistent, when being consistent isn't working. You want drk used? Boost the ****ing dark. But don't sit there tweaking a god damn warrior when a dragoon doesn't even PARTY.

 

[Tagrineth]

Er.. Pere... "Haste" doesn't hurt you, it only helps. "Haste" doesn't lower TP return...

 

[Skaw]

Er... gimp ass monk? Know nothing about equipment swapping? Hey, remove your head out of your ass

2 sets? Maybe if I wanted to halfass my way through things. Please. I have more swaps than you, if thats all you've listed. Normal Melee, Weaponskill, Chakra, Chi Blast, Tank, Guard max, STR max, VIT max, Counter max. I'm sorry if I hurt the all might peregrine's feelings, but seriously. Shut the fuck up about jobs you've never seen in full action except your Invictus idiots.

 

[Skaw]

Infact, my signature even has 4 of my swaps if you'd care to look. But again, last time I fucking called you out on that you stuck your fingers in your ears and feigned deafness.