Looking for input on DD PLD setup.

[Celvantes]

Yesterday, I finally finished my DD PLD setup. After testing it out for the first time, I was pleased, but not too impressed. I'm wondering if anyone else has had better luck, or has insight from playing WAR or DRK/NIN that could help.

This is what I had:

TP Setup:

Weapon: Justice Sword/Joyeuse (or Company Sword/Joyeuse)
Ranged: Virtue Stone (or +4 atk Smart Grenade)
Head: Walahra Turban
Neck: Fortitude Torque
Earrings: Suppanomimi/Brutal
Body: Haubergeon
Hands: Homam Manopolas
Rings: Ulthalam's/Sniper's
Back: Amemet Mantle +1
Waist: Potent Belt
Legs: Homam Consciales
Feet: Homam Gambieras

That gives the final stats of:
Haste +14%
STR 70+17 (70+10 with Company)
DEX 63+5 (The main weakness of the PLD DD - crap for DEX)
Acc +40
Atk 384 (385 with Company/Joy + Smart Grenade)
Double Attack +5% (and roughly 50% proc for Justice and Joyeuse)
Sword Skill +12 (for a 304 total with max merits)

WS Setup:

Weapon: Justice Sword/Joyeuse (or Company Sword/Joyeuse)
Ranged: Virtue Stone (or +4 atk Smart Grenade)
Head: Optical Hat
Neck: Thunder Gorget
Earrings: Suppanomimi/Brutal
Body: Hecatomb Harness
Hands: Hecatomb Mittens
Rings: Flame/Omicron
Back: Amemet Mantle +1
Waist: Warwolf Belt
Legs: Ares Flanchard
Feet: Hecatomb Leggings

That gives the final stats of:
STR 70+55 (70+48 with Company)
DEX 63+18
Acc +20
Atk 382 (383 with Company/Joy + Smart Grenade)
Double Attack +7% (Justice can proc on WS)
Sword Skill +5 (for a 297 total with max merits)

All of these stats are without food.

I do not have a parser, however, I was partying with Ikari, who does. After about an hour and a half of exp, I was looking at:

74.96% accuracy
57.9 melee average
104.1 crit average
485.7 WS average

This was with the Justice Sword/Joyeuse setup while eating Sis Kebabi.

We were fighting Mamool Ja and Puks at the Mamool Ja staging point, so I understand this lowers my accuracy a bit. However, is that number still low enough to justify eating sushi?

I'm satisfied with the melee average damage, especially considering I was getting at least 3 if not 4 swings per round. That was the best part - just watching Justice and Joyeuse never stop moving.

However, I am disappointed with the 485 WS average. Part of it, I think, has to do with the DPS of my weapon combinations. Justice/Joyeuse is 11.25 DPS with +7 STR and the possibility of double attacking on a weapon skill. Company Sword/Joyeuse is 13.99 DPS.

I didn't have a parser for later in the exp party when I was using Company/Joyeuse + Smart Grenade, but it seemed as if it pushed my average WS up to about 500-650, and the double attacked WS to 800-900. The TP build was slower, though, and I don't know how much total damage that would cost me over time.

I would like to push up the WS damage to an average of 800. The +STR gear isn't doing it... would sushi give the accuracy to land more of the Vorpal Blade hits, or would I need to chuck some of the STR gear and WS in more accuracy gear?

 

[Tymon]

Company sword would easily bump up your WS damage.

Maybe not as much as you want it to, but it would certainly help.

Some more food for thought is that if you have REALLY amazing gear, pld/war can actually out parse pld/nin.

I know you don't have an excalibur, but I know that can work, I bet it's possible without one as well.

 

[neophytal]

Ares's Cuirass

 

[DarkMagnus]

Idk about swords, but ive seen pld's doing 900+ ws with GS.

 

[Itachiii]

Idk about swords, but ive seen pld's doing 900+ ws with GS.

DoT on swords would beat out GS. And the WS average sounds about right. Due to the lower base dmg you won't be getting anything too much higher. What were your TP returns on VP? Best to check and make sure you are getting full TP returns before you make the switch to sushi. If you are getting full TP returns sushi will do nothing to help this. Only way to boost VP average is to switch to a higher base dmg sword or get a BRD. I would probably stick with Justice/Joy if I were you just for the fun factor alone

edit: if you were to main hand a CS I would stick with Justice in the off hand for the TP gain and STR on WSs

 

[DarkMagnus]

I only said ws dmg. Have you tried wsing with more acc (life belt etc)?

 

[Knightblade]

If you're gonna go for a full DD set up, might want to work on swift belt. Haub +1 is a nice bonus too, if you have the gil.

Edit: Also, Hedgehog Pie is really nice, and you can get up to 6 hours with it with sanction bonuses. More ATK, and an extra 5 acc is awesome too. As for your WS, check how much TP return you're getting, as stated above, before judging what to change.

 

[Itachiii]

Also forgot to adds lots have said that the sea gorgets only affect the first hit of the WS. I would provide links but everything except QCDN FFXI wise is blocked here at work. If you did searches on BG, KI and alla I'm sure it wouldn't be too hard to find. And if you were eatting attack food PCC would probably be better than the Torque as that would be +4 acc more due to skill above 200 equalling only 0.9 acc and att.

 

[Makelith]

Have you tried the perdu sword yet?

 

[Itachiii]

Have you tried the perdu sword yet?

Hmmm forgot about that one...Perdu/Justice FTW

 

[Celvantes]

PLD can't use Perdu Sword, unfortunately.

Alright, I'll do one more with meat and try to figure out what my TP return is. Thanks, I didn't even think about that as a measure of what my WS acc is.

I'm looking into whether or not sea gorgets only affect first hit of a WS. Gregedor says it's debatable, but all his are single or double-shot WS, so he wouldn't know.

I've considered swift belt, but considering my existing acc issues, I don't want to take down the acc out of the waist slot for haste. I think I get enough haste out of Homam+Turban. That, and the overall pain in the ass factor of getting the belt.

I have not yet tried WSing in more acc, going to check on the TP return first. I like the STR gear... if it turns out that I need more, I think I'll go for sushi over swapping gear.

If it does turn out that sea gorget only affects first attack of WS, would Fortitude Torque or Chiv Chain be better to WS in?

 

[Makelith]

Didn't know Pld couldn't use it, but not really surprising.

Its been debated pretty hardcore and even proven a few times on QCDN that it only affects the first hit. It was either Veresko or Jamal, iirc that proved it. Could have been Vil too. Too many numbers and decimals for me to remember.

I would go with the Torque for WS, but that might be just me. It'll end up giving more acc then the chain, and it also gives some attack, but until you know if you are getting full TP returns from VB its a toss up.

 

[jamal]

I have not yet tried WSing in more acc, going to check on the TP return first. I like the STR gear... if it turns out that I need more, I think I'll go for sushi over swapping gear.

...

1. Never use a dual setup with base dmg's as low as that. If joyeuse is your main-handed weapon, your dmg is going to be severely lacking.

2. Fortitude Torque is > all for sword weaponskills. I've tested it against gorgets for both WAR and pld.

3. (Using the above quote). Always adjust gear first. In all multi-hit weaponskills you do it one of two ways:

a. Load as much STR as possible. Then add acc until you are just barely getting full tp returns
b. Load up on ACC, add STR in for Acc slots until you start not getting full tp return. Go to the last full tp return setup.

4. Remember that STR does very little comparatively for Vorpal Blade. Weapon DMG > ACC > STR = DEX imo. A critical proc on 1/4 of the hits will do far more for the dmg than the STR. I HIGHLY recommend Amir Boots for weaponskilling over Heca feet. 6 acc is huge no matter the slot. Consistently high dmg > one High spike dmg when you get lucky, then the rest of your ws's being low do to acc problems.

5. Don't gimp it. Pld needs cream of the crop gear to come close to others. This means HQ's. Sniper's+1, Dusk+1 Ledelsens, the works. If using meat, sniper's+1 will yield better results on the weaponskills over time than Flame by far.

And oh yea, I'm back I guess

 

[Gunnerx]

Fortitude Torque is > all for sword weaponskills. I've tested it against gorgets for both WAR and pld.

Sword skill and what ever mod+ Fortitude gives would be much better than Gorget seeing as how you probably use vorpal blade and gorgets only effect the first hit on multi-hit WS's.

I would go with the Torque for WS, but that might be just me. It'll end up giving more acc then the chain, and it also gives some attack, but until you know if you are getting full TP returns from VB its a toss up.

Depending on what WS you use, probably.

 

[Vilurum]

Don't forget about food either. If you munched sushi instead of meat, that should plop you a bit above the 95% cap. At 75 with a reasonable acc setup and an A or A- weapon, I'd expect sushi to give at least +50 acc (closer to +60 in some cases), which translates to at least 25% actual accuracy, though it of course can't push you above 95%. So you could scrap some of that acc gear for att/str for TP and definitely for WS.

Different people have different standards for how low they'll let their acc go if it means they get to eat meat. The math's not something I feel like doing out at the moment though, but I personally wouldn't eat meat if it meant going below 80-85% acc. There comes a point where the damage lost to missed hits is more significant than the damage gained from better pDIF.

 

[charlo]

Your biggest problem is not your gear its your food.
Eat sushi and stack the haste. Meaning get a swift belt or speed belt(lol).
Your gear can only get better by very small amounts ie: hauby + 1, frogers mantle, thats about it.
For gods sake DO NOT MAINHAND ANOTHER SWORD THAN JUSTICE.
Joytoy double attack 50% only works for normal TP DoT.
But justice works for TP DoT AND WS.
Also joytoy double attack will not proc ontop of brutals, but justice will.
So vorpal blade will have hits ranging upto a possible triple amount of its base amount. No other sword is gonns beat this increase in damage with sushi to bk it up.
Sushi is the key to consistantly giving you high returns.
If i were you i would WS in torque and potent belt.
Id also tp and WS in ulthalam/rajas
Also i would WS in hauby the att and dex (Little extra acc and crit increase on all that multi attack) will outproform the 7 str of heca more consistantly. The +1 will easily out do it.
Thats my opinion anyway.

 

[jamal]

Justice works for weaponskill yes...but not every swing. The only swings that are able to be proc'd are the big tp return swings...just as in any other multi-hit weaponskill.
First swing -- 6-7 tp return.
Second swing -- 1-2 tp return
Third swing -- 1-2 tp return
fourth swing - 1-2 tp return

Any double attack proc's will add 1-2tp...giving a max of around 14ish tp (with DA proc). Were justice working on every swing of the ws, the max tp return would be much much higher. (16-17tp range)

 

[Necrosis]

Ares's Cuirass

He's using meat, why would he use that?

@OP: I'd take your 75% acc with a grain of salt; I'm sure you were fighting Puks and they tend to skew acc numbers. I highly suggest getting a swift belt, though, as someone said. Keep potent for WS (don't use warwolf, connecting hits is vital, especially with meat). I'd drop the flames and WS in sniper's, too, if you notice yourself getting consistently low tp returns. Switch to opti hat on NINs and THFs, and I hope you're getting madrigal on the latter. Don't use a friggin chiv chain, keep the sea torque, no damned question about it, period. I'd keep joy/justice, too, it's not just WS damage, it's DoT.

Your biggest problem is not your gear its your food.
Eat sushi and stack the haste. Meaning get a swift belt or speed belt(lol).

Don't listen to this guy. You have a ton of sword skill and access to homam, more than enough to have a meat build; you just need some minor tweaking to make it work better.

But justice works for TP DoT AND WS.

Multihits do not, and have not ever, proc'd on WS.

 

[Tymon]

Multihits do not, and have not ever, proc'd on WS.

All lies, I got a 48 hit hexa strike just yesterday!

Spoiler:

if you use multi hit weapons in the main hand for a WS you're a retard

 

[charlo]

But seriously 75% acc WITH 2 multi attack weapons and you think he should eat meat.
Think about it
2 normal swords
100 rounds of each weapon = 200 hits with 75% acc = 150 hits conected.
joytoy and justice
100 rounds of each weapon = 300 hits (Average) with 75% acc = 225 hits conected

Now factor in sushi that would take him to 95% acc
2 normal swords
100 rounds of each weapon = 200 with 95% acc = 190 hits conect
joytoy and justice
100 rounds of each weapon = 300 with 95% acc = 285 hits conect

So with normal weapons your lossing average of 40 hits BUT with joy/justice its 60 hits.
Add in brutal this gap becomes larger add in a multi attack WS and it becomes larger again. extra damage from meat will NOT make up for this.
You will also see more damage over time from WSing more.
Think why do drks now sub sam. not for OMG big WS s but to WS 3 times as much.
Its all about DoT in both tp and WS.
You dont need meat for multi attackers as they bump up the damage and tp faster themselves you just need to make em go fast (haste) and accurate to reach their potential.
Also why would you wanna go messing around gear swapping when it swaps to mammols and such evasion stacked mobs when this setup stays on with sushi on all mobsCause your acc with sushi will stay high.
Also homam and high sword skill wont cut it. why? because your not a 2 hander.
Multi hits not proc on WS eh. so why would you see people main hand a lower based damage justice over joytoy then?