Looking for input on DD PLD setup.

Necrosis said:
Justice does not proc on WS in any form.
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What's causing the 15% return then?

5 (TP/hit) + 5 (offhand hit) + 1 (Brutal double attack) + 3 (for each additional Vorpal Blade hit) = 14%

Had I been hit by the mob immediately after WSing, it would have been 16%, not 15%.

Granted, I only saw it once, but that would make sense given the 5% chance of seeing BOTH Justice and Brutal proc on the same WS.


For everyone else, thanks for the input - I'll monkey with my gear setup until I'm landing 4/4 of the Vorpal Blade hits.

More to come once I start parsing.

For those curious, delay with my gear setup for Justice/Joy is 334. Company/Joy is 354.
 
Celvantes said:
What's causing the 15% return then?

5 (TP/hit) + 5 (offhand hit) + 1 (Brutal double attack) + 3 (for each additional Vorpal Blade hit) = 14%

Had I been hit by the mob immediately after WSing, it would have been 16%, not 15%.

Granted, I only saw it once, but that would make sense given the 5% chance of seeing BOTH Justice and Brutal proc on the same WS.


For everyone else, thanks for the input - I'll monkey with my gear setup until I'm landing 4/4 of the Vorpal Blade hits.

More to come once I start parsing.

For those curious, delay with my gear setup for Justice/Joy is 334. Company/Joy is 354.
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You missed a hit on WS and then got hit? You're not remembering it right? idk, but it doesn't proc on WS.

Single hand a justice on pld/notWARsub and don't wear a brutal. Tell me when you get a proc on WS.
 
Necrosis said:
You missed a hit on WS and then got hit? You're not remembering it right? idk, but it doesn't proc on WS.

Single hand a justice on pld/notWARsub and don't wear a brutal. Tell me when you get a proc on WS.
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Also...its very possible that both of the first swings can DA proc normally. I know Rampage is that way, I haven't paid attention on Vorpal.
 
jamal said:
Also...its very possible that both of the first swings can DA proc normally. I know Rampage is that way, I haven't paid attention on Vorpal.
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Something I've always wondered is that can every hit in a WS DA? The reason why Rampage can only get 2 DAs is because WS hits cap at 8. So since Rampage is a 6 hit WS (when off-handing a weapon) you can naturally only DA twice. So can VB when DA enough times to make it 8 hits. I could test it out with Blade: Jins but just getting 2 DAs on a WS is rare enough, not to mention having every single hit connect when this does happen.
 
Best and only way to test this is go out on EP mobs and spam VB with justice/joy lots
Then swap to Rune blade/joy and VB lots
Now record only the highest tp returns of both.
If justice/joys tp is highest then it does proc during a WS.
If its the same then its not.
 
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i definitely reccommend /war or /sam and great sword with spinning slash

aside from a jp excal/k club pld its was the best dmg i ever saw a pld do

i've never seen anything impressive with 2x swd unless you count jamal but that's cheating
 
Saintgermain said:
i definitely reccommend /war or /sam and great sword with spinning slash

aside from a jp excal/k club pld its was the best dmg i ever saw a pld do

i've never seen anything impressive with 2x swd unless you count jamal but that's cheating
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Further testing has shown that it doesn't proc. I have a slight astigmatism, so I might have read a "16" as a "15." The mob probably hit me *right* after WSing a 14 return to cause this.

Gregedor spent a couple hours last night re-tooling his damage calculator for my gear setup on PLD/NIN (as opposed to his SAM). It took a while to model the effects of the double attack proc rate, but he was able to work it in.

Assuming 100% accuracy, it looks as if Joyeuse/Justice beats out Company/Joyeuse and Justice/Joyeuse and is only slightly better than Company/Justice. This was only damage from regular melee hits, though, and what remains to be seen is whether or not the harder (but less frequent) Company WS will beat out the weaker (but more frequent) Joyeuse WS.

Today, I'm going to hit the Thickets with Sushi (so that acc isn't a factor) and test total damage with first Company/Justice and then Joyeuse/Justice. I'll be using this setup for TP/WS:

Ammo: Virtue Stone/Same
Head: Wahlara Turban/Ohat
Neck: Fortitude Torque/Same
Earrings: Suppa + Brutal / Same
Body: Haubergeon/Hecatomb Harness
Hands: Homam/Hecatomb Mittens
Rings: Ulthalum's + Sniper's / Omicron + Flame
Back: Amemet +1 / Same
Waist: Potent Belt / Same
Legs: Homam/Ares Flanchard
Feet: Homam/Hecatomb Leggings

With Potent Belt/Torque in for WS and sushi, I should be landing all my Vorpal hits, so acc should be constant. The sword loadout will be the deciding factor in how much damage I do, and I'll be able to find out once and for all what's best.

After nailing that down, I'll swap to meat and start playing with gear setup on WS to maximize attack without losing hits on Vorpal Blade.

Parser results to come.
 
Saintgermain said:
i definitely reccommend /war or /sam and great sword with spinning slash

aside from a jp excal/k club pld its was the best dmg i ever saw a pld do
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I think he was looking for serious suggestions here, not retarded ones.
 
Necrosis said:
I think he was looking for serious suggestions here, not retarded ones.
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Believe it or not, I asked Gregedor to run the calcs on PLD/SAM with Great Sword + Torque + max merits. Using Balan's Sword it was slightly lower in DPS to Company Sword/Joyeuse. The problem is that the benefits from a two-handed weapon don't outweigh the fact that PLD Great Sword skill is much lower, even with merits and torque. That, and I'm trading Vorpal Blade for Spinning Slash. It *might* work with an Algol... but meh. I'd level DRK if I wanted to do that.



OK, parser results:

Run 1: Company Sword + Justice Sword 68 battles ~1 hour
South Camp Thickets vs Mamool Ja / Puks

Melee Damage: 45,246
Melee Accuracy: 84.76%
Melee Low/Avg/High Hit: 12/53.3/109
Melee Crit%: 4.68%
Critical Low/Avg/High Hit: 53/105.9/170
Weapon Skills: 38
Weapon Skill Damage: 19,160
Weapon Skill Accuracy: 100% (but not nearly all hits landing within the skill)
TOTAL DAMAGE: 64,406

Run 2: Joyeuse + Justice Sword 58 battles ~50 minutes
North Camp Thickets vs Mamool Ja / (fewer) Puks

Melee Damage: 37,578
Melee Accuracy: 88.05%
Melee Low/Avg/High Hit: 0/42.3/81
Melee Crit%: 5.48%
Critical Low/Avg/High Hit: 52/86.8/133
Weapon Skills: 38
Weapon Skill Damage: 18,021
Weapon Skill Accuracy: 100% (same as before)
TOTAL DAMAGE: 55,599

This would have been a perfect test (since the party stayed the same through both hours), but we had to move camps right after I switched weapons. The North camp has more THFs and NINs which should have messed with my accuracy, but by the numbers, it didn't. Secondly, I died, and we had to stop about 10-15 minutes short on the second run, so I didn't get the full hour for the Joyeuse/Justice test.

The good thing is that I somehow got EXACTLY the same number of weapon skills in each test, so that provides a little basis for comparison, even though I would have gotten maybe 10-15 more had I finished out the time.

For the record, the party was PLD/NIN MNK/NIN MNK/NIN WAR/NIN BRD/WHM COR/WHM.

Still deciding how I'm going to call this one.
 
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@test: means nothing, obviously biased.

Only benefit company has is WS damage improvement, DoT (should be) roughly equal between the multihitters and it (multihit may even come out slightly ahead due to less delay). When you factor in the multihit's effect on TP gain, the choice is obvious.
 
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Need to know the party's percentages as well if you're posting total damage. How did your relative % of total damage increase or decrease in the party setup.
 
did you use food?
Also 1 is for 50 mins 1 is for 60 mins.
General avarage would be to divide numbers of joy/justice by 5 then add it to the numbers you had originally.
In other words looks like joy/justice is better.
 
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charlo said:
did you use food?
Also 1 is for 50 mins 1 is for 60 mins.
General avarage would be to divide numbers of joy/justice by 5 then add it to the numbers you had originally.
In other words looks like joy/justice is better.
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Multiplying out the numbers brings joyeuse/justice into the lead by just over 2,000 damage.

Yes, I did use food - sole sushi. I wanted accuracy to be a constant between the two tests.

I'm going to repeat the test when I can, this time by parsing everyone to see relative damage. I'm also going to go with BRD + RDM instead of BRD + COR because I think Fighter's Roll was skewing the results a bit. Hopefully I'll be able to maintain the same camp.
 
Celvantes said:
Multiplying out the numbers brings joyeuse/justice into the lead by just over 2,000 damage.

Yes, I did use food - sole sushi. I wanted accuracy to be a constant between the two tests.

I'm going to repeat the test when I can, this time by parsing everyone to see relative damage. I'm also going to go with BRD + RDM instead of BRD + COR because I think Fighter's Roll was skewing the results a bit. Hopefully I'll be able to maintain the same camp.
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Are you eventually going to also parse this with meat, being at the same constant camps, if possible? I'd like to see the outcome on that.
 
Knightblade said:
Are you eventually going to also parse this with meat, being at the same constant camps, if possible? I'd like to see the outcome on that.
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When I find the best sword combo, I'm going to swap to meat, yes.
 
Celvantes said:
When I find the best sword combo, I'm going to swap to meat, yes.
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DoT is roughly the same between a CS/multihit and two multihits, but TP gain in the latter is improved by over 20%, where's the question of "best sword combo" here? If it doesn't include an excalibur, I don't see what all the debate is about.
 
thanks for this thread cel classy as always I really appreciate what you have contributed to thsi community :D
 
Necrosis said:
DoT is roughly the same between a CS/multihit and two multihits, but TP gain in the latter is improved by over 20%, where's the question of "best sword combo" here? If it doesn't include an excalibur, I don't see what all the debate is about.
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Mob TP gain is also greatly increased. To be the 'best' setup, you need to do the most efficient damage possible. This isn't always the most, but isn't something you can put down on paper. I've yet to see the percentages compared to other people in the party...because to choose a DD pld over another job, especially a tp-spamming pld, the pld would need to be a step above your average war/nin/mnk for the party to work efficiently.
 
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