Looks like Peregrine was right. Blm nerf.

Wait a second...Doesn't a BLM, of any race, act as fodder if it gets hate? BLMs are already nerfed. They have shit DEF and the only thing that will keep a cannon alive is killing the mob faster than it kills you or bouncing hate. Both of which require a little more planning than the average party needs.
 
Shaunessy said:
Wait a second...Doesn't a BLM, of any race, act as fodder if it gets hate? BLMs are already nerfed. They have shit DEF and the only thing that will keep a cannon alive is killing the mob faster than it kills you or bouncing hate. Both of which require a little more planning than the average party needs.
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Or just killing the mob before it even reaches the BLMs.

I'm with Skaw on this one.
 
Skaw said:
The reason why Manaburning is such a problem, is because it doesn't even cause the battle to go through, you're bypassing content. You hop right over the hurdles Square has placed on purpose to make things hard. You just go in, 6 seconds later, win. If you're too ignorant to realize why that's an issue, you deserve your job to be nerfed.
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so what you are saying is they should also nerf mnk cannon and war rampage pts?

I myself have been maybe in 2 manaburn pts. I dont care for them too much. What I am more concerned with is using my blm for kirin/dynamis/limbus w/e. People get pissed off that 'oh no, blm too strong, they dont want to do DM with me' or 'oh no, blm lvling way faster then me'. Now they will nerf blm, to where only one blm can do any type of event that will make it go much much slower. One of the best examples I can give is the last floor of apollyon SW. 3 of every type of element on that floor. A very strict time limit. When u nerf blm, the only thing that will be able to beat it is a bunch of smn. and hell, that might not even work.
 
Why don't they nerf MNK, or WAR then?

I've seen war burns pull more EXP /hr in sky than a manaburn, infact, I'd be sad if a manaburn beat a MNK or WAR burn in KRT or Sky.


You're also not taking into account, BLM's don't manaburn -everything-, it takes alot of time and planning to manaburn anything. For example; Rhinegold's divine might thread, Odon's KS99 thread. Not any old person can set up 16~ BLMs to go beat the crap out of everything.

I'm gonna change my post though, I'm not surprised, or upset, that BLM is getting nerfed. Once I hit 50 and saw freeze and higher level BLMs doing insane damage, I knew this wouldn't last. It'd only take enough other jealous people to complain to SE to have something done about it.
To be honest, I wanna see all these BLMs who are only in it for the money go. I really hope this nerf sorts the boys from the men, because theres alot of boys running around right now.
 
And skaw, why do you care about how people play? If they want to manaburn let them. If they figured out a way to bypass these hurdles, why do you care? Yes, they will pull more mobs then you, but they also have a lot higher risk of completely wiping if something goes wrong. Shouldnt bigger risk = bigger payoff?
 
Sirelrohir said:
so what you are saying is they should also nerf mnk cannon and war rampage pts?

I myself have been maybe in 2 manaburn pts. I dont care for them too much. What I am more concerned with is using my blm for kirin/dynamis/limbus w/e. People get pissed off that 'oh no, blm too strong, they dont want to do DM with me' or 'oh no, blm lvling way faster then me'. Now they will nerf blm, to where only one blm can do any type of event that will make it go much much slower. One of the best examples I can give is the last floor of apollyon SW. 3 of every type of element on that floor. A very strict time limit. When u nerf blm, the only thing that will be able to beat it is a bunch of smn. and hell, that might not even work.
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Can you read? Seriously. Cannoning isn't Manaburning. Manaburning = Black Mage Divine Might. Black Mage Mission BC. Black Mage Dynamis. If you can't do end-game as it was intended due to time constraints, just don't do it at all.

Ofcourse people are fucking pissed that they can't get Divine Might done, it wasn't designed specifically to be Manaburned, and thats where the problem lies. Every job is equally useful to Divine Might. Manaburning it, as I said before, isn't even doing the battle. It's enter, 6 seconds, win. Way to show SE you enjoyed their content they spent months putting together, go get 'em, tough guy! Theres a reason people don't consider Manaburning events as actual wins, because you're not doing the actual battle.

As well,

Skaw said:
Note: Don't take this as me saying MNK cannon should be around. It's drawn a lot of Bandwagoners I'd like to see be given the boot.
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In this very thread no less.
 
Blabj said:
Why don't they nerf MNK, or WAR then?
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Because MNK and WAR can't tear down huge battles such as Dynamis, HNMs, Missions, and Burning Circles with just other Monks and Warriors with very little risk. Thats the issue with Manaburning

I've seen war burns pull more EXP /hr in sky than a manaburn, infact, I'd be sad if a manaburn beat a MNK or WAR burn in KRT or Sky.
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We're not talking about cannons. We're talking about Manaburning events, for the 80th time, quit bringing up Cannons. I personally hate them. They're fucking boring.

You're also not taking into account, BLM's don't manaburn -everything-, it takes alot of time and planning to manaburn anything. For example; Rhinegold's divine might thread, Odon's KS99 thread. Not any old person can set up 16~ BLMs to go beat the crap out of everything.
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Oh no.. It takes time... to schedule. As opposed to time to do the fight. It takes everyone else time to schedule events too, but not everyones going in and winning in a matter of seconds, as well, with only jobs of the same type. Ignorance must be bliss. Fuck, it's actually harder to get things done without Manaburning, cause everyone wants to suck your jobs e-dick and skimp thier way through content.

I'm gonna change my post though, I'm not surprised, or upset, that BLM is getting nerfed. Once I hit 50 and saw freeze and higher level BLMs doing insane damage, I knew this wouldn't last. It'd only take enough other jealous people to complain to SE to have something done about it.
To be honest, I wanna see all these BLMs who are only in it for the money go. I really hope this nerf sorts the boys from the men, because theres alot of boys running around right now.
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This is highly contradictory to your previous post, Blabj. You have no issue with Black Mage scheduling Manaburn events, but then you go and knock them for abusing the job.

Sirelrohir said:
And skaw, why do you care about how people play? If they want to manaburn let them. If they figured out a way to bypass these hurdles, why do you care? Yes, they will pull more mobs then you, but they also have a lot higher risk of completely wiping if something goes wrong. Shouldnt bigger risk = bigger payoff?
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The problem is, it's not a bigger risk. Black Mages have found the niche to were they put minimal risk, and yield huge rewards. Have a bard pull with Elegy. Elegy is extremely potent slow. If your managing to pulling hate, and having the mob live long enough to break through stoneskin/blink, you're in a pretty shitty Blackmage cannon/Manaburn event.

Thats what breaks design. They drop things almost instantly. Sure, there may be one or two deaths every couple of years.
 
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Skaw said:
Can you read? Seriously. Cannoning isn't Manaburning. Manaburning = Black Mage Divine Might. Black Mage Mission BC. Black Mage Dynamis. If you can't do end-game as it was intended due to time constraints, just don't do it at all.

Ofcourse people are fucking pissed that they can't get Divine Might done, it wasn't designed specifically to be Manaburned, and thats where the problem lies. Every job is equally useful to Divine Might. Manaburning it, as I said before, isn't even doing the battle. It's enter, 6 seconds, win. Way to show SE you enjoyed their content they spent months putting together, go get 'em, tough guy! Theres a reason people don't consider Manaburning events as actual wins, because you're not doing the actual battle.

As well,



In this very thread no less.
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Sorry bro, i and many others have used mana burning and cannon in the same context.

Now let me get this straight. You are upset that blm are goin around manaburning DM. They are going to nerf this so it cant be done anymore. Then you want people to go in and do DM 'as intended'. Well, since blm are going to be alot less important, why cant u (or whoever) go ahead and do it with out them? Why does it bother you that these blm are skipping all sorts of content (by this i mean death)? If they can live with it, why cant you? And no, like i said, I didnt manaburn DM. I actually went as a pld (omg wth is a pld doin at DM)
 
Welp, They will get boned and hard. First is was the Nin with shadows not lasting verses Aoe, then losing hate with blink. Then that fateful day were everyone laughs at the Rngs cuz they arent as powerful anymore. Hell I remember someone made a pic of a war laughing over a dead rng. And the lastest was the Bst, who can no longer latch onto mobs half a zone away.

Why is this just a heated discussion? Because if you dont play Blm, you want them to be nerfed, weakend and seeking hours upon hours like so many people do. The only people that arent bitching and whining about this are the ones who will try their best to make the job work still.

What do I have to say? I'll say the same thing everyone else has said in the past. Suck it up, make it work, if you are a "True" (insert nerf'd job here) You'll still do "well". They'll continue makin this game harder for a single person to play alone. Ever want that super cool item, noone has except those people that play this game day in and day out? Now you havta devote your life to this game to get those awsomely rare items.

Smn's will be next, why? Because someone will bitch and moan that because Rng and Blm have been nerf, make smn pay the same. Man.. Why do i still play this game? -_-
 
If you're too afraid of death in an MMO, quit playing it. It's part of the game. Everyone experiences. Saying you manaburn just to skip the death is a pretty weak excuse. You manaburn it because you want to easy-mode your way through the game and not do things as they were designed.

It's not hard to do DM without Black Mage, but like I said to Blabj, it's hard to find people who can't remove their heads from Black Mages asses to do things without them.
 
ForteTeppo said:
Why is this just a heated discussion? Because if you dont play Blm, you want them to be nerfed, weakend and seeking hours upon hours like so many people do. The only people that arent bitching and whining about this are the ones who will try their best to make the job work still.
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Way to put things in peoples mouths, Teppo. No ones saying nerf the individual Black Mage. Manaburning content needs to be dismantled. Thats the problem. But, like I said. If you're a Black Mage, and you still don't understand. Keep it up. We'll see what happens when you have to ask others to help.

Bypassing things everyone else is forced to experience is where the imbalance in jobs lie. And no, I'm not talking about exp, so don't bring up BST, or cannons, in regards to quoting me again.
 
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I hope they nerf BLU in the future if it becomes the next BLM, because I'll be sticking with it, I've waited 2 years since I started FFXI for it, and I'm not leaving it for anything.
 
Skaw said:
Way to put things in peoples mouths, Teppo. No ones saying nerf the individual Black Mage. Manaburning content needs to be dismantled. Thats the problem. But, like I said. If you're a Black Mage, and you still don't understand. Keep it up. We'll see what happens when you have to ask others to help.
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Everyone here is complaing on how Blms(groups of blms) should(n't) be nerfed. I'm placing my bets SE will shove a fat pole up their asses like everything else.

Can you honestly say how the nerf will turn out? Did SE email you, or even face to face tell you how they will get screwed over? If they did, I'm done and believe everything you have said. Or are you just predicting from personal experciene(like me) on how it'll turn out? From ALL of SE's "Nerfs" They noticily(if not drastically) Hurt all the jobs they "fix'd".
 
I'm curious about the new White Mage spells. Only thing I can think of is giving White Mage the ability to cast Phalanx. The others, such as enspells and gravity don't make much sense for a healer to have.

Divine Seal/Veil was already a good way of AoE effect removal. Not sure in what other ways effects can be removed without making Divine Veil job trait useless.

White Mage is already preferred over other healers because of RaiseII and RaiseIII. I don't see why they'd want to improve White Mage because people usually choose White Mage over a Summoner/White Mage or a Red Mage/White Mage.

Maybe the ability to cast Aquaviel on party members...*shrugs*

Cure VI (?) <-- Er, not really worth it.
Regen IV (?) <-- Maybe?
Protectra V (?) <-- Would make White Mage more popular if they had this.
Shellra V (?)
AoE Phalanx (?) <-- But that's Diabolos >_>;; I can't imagine a White Mage doing that.

As for the Black Mage thing, I think they don't want them to be casting 6 ThundagaIIIs in a row. For example, each ThundagaIII will have a less effect than the one landed before because the monster builds resistance. If it's not a certain element specific resistance, then probably just general magic resistance. Maybe a cool down period before using another spell, or the monster will get more resistance.
 
Teppo, my problem is that by weakening blm in this way, it doesnt make it harder, but it makes it useless for some fights. With rng, all you have to do is stand a certain distance away, and u can still do the maximum amount of damage regardless if there are other rng in the pt. By nerfing blm in this way, u will be penalyzed for having multiple blm in a pt or alliance or w/e (allegedly, since we still dont know the specifics).

Seriously, is there anyone here that wants to be fighting kirin any longer then they have to? I know my ls doesnt want to be up there for 3 hours fighting that thing. We want it dead asap because 1) we can do other stuff and 2) it frees up kirin for another ls asap. Using blm is a quick and efficient way to do alot of things in game. Now the game will get even slower, possibly causing more congestion in sky. This, of course is how SE wants it $$$$.
 
You have little faith, Teppo. I've always been an advocate of the Elemental Resistance building idea. They can always scale how resistance builds differently for larger scale battles. Look at the NM Hyper timer. Not every NM goes Hyper. And those that do have differing clocks in which they actually do go Hyper. Things can be designed based on the encounter. They have in the past, they will be in the future.
 
Sirelrohir said:
Teppo, my problem is that by weakening blm in this way, it doesnt make it harder, but it makes it useless for some fights. With rng, all you have to do is stand a certain distance away, and u can still do the maximum amount of damage regardless if there are other rng in the pt. By nerfing blm in this way, u will be penalyzed for having multiple blm in a pt or alliance or w/e (allegedly, since we still dont know the specifics).

Seriously, is there anyone here that wants to be fighting kirin any longer then they have to? I know my ls doesnt want to be up there for 3 hours fighting that thing. We want it dead asap because 1) we can do other stuff and 2) it frees up kirin for another ls asap. Using blm is a quick and efficient way to do alot of things in game. Now the game will get even slower, possibly causing more congestion in sky. This, of course is how SE wants it $$$$.
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To be honest, I dont want any job nerfed more they you do. As for Rng, I'm told they dont do nearly as enough as they used to. I wish so much they set it back on how it used to be. This game is hard enough, but SE thinks harder = funner.
If they want to "Balance" the game out, make other things stronger, Not make the stronger things weaker.
 
ForteTeppo said:
To be honest, I dont want any job nerfed more they you do. As for Rng, I'm told they dont do nearly as enough as they used to. I wish so much they set it back on how it used to be. This game is hard enough, but SE thinks harder = funner.
If they want to "Balance" the game out, make other things stronger, Not make the stronger things weaker.
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Theres a down side to buffing other jobs to equal the strength of one thats overpowered. You end up trivializing encounters further, and in turn, SE might make those encounters harder to offset that, then you're virtually back at square one.
 
I dont like the Idea of cannoning DM either. I got my Abyssal in a "normal" run (I was one of 3 BLM) because I like the strategy and teamwork of traditional PT setups.

Im worried about the nerf, because I think that in order to counter cannon abuse, theyll turn down a BLMs nuking power. Thats the whole point of being a BLM >.>; Melee should neve outdamage BLM over the course of a fight. In a pinch, a War can tank pretty effectively, while still attacking. a DRK can SATA massive WSs onto tanks for Hate. Other than lolomghugeboomfest nuking for big numbers, BLM cant do jack. (dont wanna hear about enfeebling or curing)

Maybe ppl will still keep us around for D2s >.>
 
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