- Joined
- Dec 14, 2004
- Messages
- 1,968
I have a few questions relative to lotting money drops. One pertains to me personally and the rest about the system itself. First, I’d like to introduce what happened to me and then ask if I was wrong thinking the way I did or not. Personally, I feel am justified in being angry and unsatisfied with my LS, but everyone else in the LS seems to think I am being greedy and unruly.
Note: I am not naming any names as I know people will be a little annoyed if I do, but the overall scenario is true.
About some time ago, the LS had found that Cerberus was up and unclaimed. A quick search of the area gave only a couple of people in the zone, not nearly enough to even attempt to take him and none of the names registered as maybe another LS scouting the spawn. Our LS organized and unfortunately, it was fairly early in the day, so not enough members were online to effectively take him. I got a WHM friend to come help and she did so willingly. We started to work away on Cerberus, but unfortunately, we wiped on the first attempt. Not enough people and we had a string of bad luck when we claimed.
Another group of people showed up and we decided it would be fine if we formed together to take down the NM. It had been decided that one member from our group and one from theirs would lot if Algol dropped. They would be allowed to keep the great sword for personal use. We did extremely well on the second attempt, getting Cerberus down to approximately 25%. However, at that time, he got off Gates of Hades which effectively wiped the entire alliance and Kaizen, who had been gathering since our second attempt, claimed not long after. Now we obviously didn’t get the Algol when if it dropped (it didn’t for Kaizen) and the LS member couldn’t lot it; however, he was still given the option to lot it.
Then about two weeks ago after a server update, I had gotten the LS interested in camping King Arthro. We had camped him before a couple of times with no real success, but we were hoping since there didn’t seem to be many people there, we would have a good chance. I was the first one at camp and logged there before the update telling the LS to please come camp with me. After the update, we got a lot of members to show up at which point the LS leader decided that a NIN would be allowed to lot the speed belt if we got the claim and drop. Another NIN showed up and he was also given the same option. Again, we didn’t claim and no drop, but the option was still there.
It was around this time, I figured I would ask if I could get something through the LS, something I had always wanted, but knew I couldn’t afford. I asked the LS and the LS leader directly if it was ok if I got the ToD of a specific NM, could we kill it and I would be allowed to lot the drop. Well, as you’d expect, he wanted to know what NM and I told him. I wanted to kill Overlord Bakgodek for the Juggernaut Axe and when I stated this in the LS, a warrior in the LS also stated his desire for this weapon. I said that since his warrior could use it, he should lot it, but he insisted if I got the ToD, I should lot. Well the leader said ok, but he was kind of iffy on his answer. So to be absolutely sure, I asked again making sure I got an exact answer and I did. It was a yes.
Fast forward about a week and I finally got my mule into Monastic Caverns. Took some work running safely from Bastok all the way to Davoi and then a lot more to get someone to actually help me get inside Monastic caverns. I spent about a week camping to get his ToD, but fortunately for me, my friend who finally helped me get into the spawn area knew his approximate window. When I woke up the next day, he spawn at about that time and I got his window. I kept updating his window for a week straight since he is the HQ of the Orcish Overlord and wouldn’t pop for 3-7 days. He popped a second time and I waited getting a new ToD each day. So one day, the only LS who had been camping him regularly, Quest Fantasy hadn’t been in the zone (I did a search and I assume Aspid’s window overlapped that particular day) and Orc Overlord was up and unclaimed. So to get a fresh ToD, I asked my LS for help. What do I get? Barraged with questions of why they should help and why should I be allowed to have the axe. Well I decided, at that time arguing with the members giving me trouble wasn’t worth the effort and since the LS leader wasn’t in the shell at the time, he would say it was ok since he had already stated it was. I then waited for Quest Fantasy to kill him for the new ToD.
Another day passes and I ask for help again, this time, I ask if I can get help to kill the NM for the next day and I wanted an exact answer if I could lot even though I had already been previously given a “yes”. The answer changed. It wasn’t a “no”. It definitely wasn’t a “yes” either. Instead of getting one answer, I get thirty different ones and not really answers as much as excuses why not to and questions about why they should. I tried to explain that the NIN were given the option to lot the speed belt, so I should be given the same chance. They didn’t want to hear it. I was asked my warriors level which at the time was level 60 which I am actively leveling and the axe was 70, they used it as a reason to not help me. They said I should be 70 at least to bother camping it. I tried to explain, I like getting gear early so when I do level, I can use it immediately and I had the ToD now and the LS can camp it now before the window is at a bad time and we can no longer camp it for a long time. No one and I mean no one listened. Then I got these replies which bothered me very much:
“We aren’t a HNM LS”
“We don’t camp HNM”
Well this was news to me. We camped KA. We attempted Cerberus. Those are all the actions of a HNM shell. Well maybe I was mistaken. But wait, we have a HNM section to our forums and to further that, we have two open threads entitled “HNM ToD” and Which HNM would you like to camp?”. The overall theme of the replies beyond we refuse to camp Bakgodek, ever, was since the item was expensive, they didn’t feel I should lot it. The value of the item came into their reason quite a bit so I believe and I am sure many will agree that it was the main reason people wouldn’t be so willing to help.
Well this just bothered me a lot. I have been with the LS about 2 months now since the formation of the shell and I’ve helped out every chance I can (excluding 1 time). I go to sky farming every time. I’ve been to all the god runs. I have yet to receive anything whether it is in the form of help or an actual item. This one time I asked for help, not only was I told no unanimously, I wasn’t even given the same treatment the other members were given. Some members were given the option to lot expensive money items (in both occasions, the items are worth far more than the axe) if we obtained them and I think if they are given the option so should I. So I got annoyed. Why should I be with a shell that puts certain members above others? I put in a lot of effort and try to help the shell with nothing to show for it and nothing will be shown from it. And for the record, I had given them my word I would both use the item and not leave the LS.
Now as for my questions: Should I be angry that I am not allowed to get the axe? Is wrong of me to expect my LS to help me like I did? Why or why not? Am I overreacting? And why?
Note: I have since left the shell and although this happened just before I left, it wasn’t the only reason for my departure. It just didn’t help the cause any.
And for my last part. The system of lotting money drops and allowing certain LS members to obtain the items seems, not flawed, but difficult to say the least (please don't use this as justification for your response, as far as I am concerned, once any member is or was given the chance, everyone should be). From my perspective you cannot satisfy everyone. If you an entire LS to camped one HNM, it would take a very long time to get everyone the same item and of course not everyone wants the same item. So then you need to camp multiple HNMs and even then, how do you consider it fair when one item may be cheaper than another? Then there are the people who leave before getting everyone their desired items. From what I have seen, it seems that when a LS chooses a lotting system like this, many members will get their items and leave before ever fully returning the favor given them. And there is what happened to me. People will help certain members at certain times and at others refuse to aid another member even if he or she has worked and earned that treatment (which I do believe I did, I had been with the shell longer than two of the members allowed to lot items).
So is a lotting system allowing members to obtain money items so flawed it won’t work? Has there ever been a shell that has actually done this and been successful in both obtaining members items and lasting as a shell? I’ve seen some shells with this system, but they did last very long since most members got their items and then left. Shells that sell the money drops among attending members seem to last far longer although they are also far more abundant, so it might just be that it seems that way, but in reality, both systems work equally.
I would also like also to state this is not a flame so don’t start with me. Yes, I am still annoyed at how things went down, but there is nothing I can do to fix it now nor would I have changed anything I did. I don’t feel I did anything particularly wrong with expecting to lot the axe especially after I was told I could and after other members were given a similar option. However, I will say this, it greatly bothers me that the responses from the entire LS were so vehemently against me and how the leader told me yes in the beginning, but changed his mind after I had already spent a lot of time camping for the ToD. It just doesn’t seem right to me that a LS would act like that without solid reasons (Something they didn’t give me when they said no, but more like they were fishing for reasons to give no). Maybe I was a little too angry when I asked it having known I was wasting my time and their responses were falling on deaf ears... or maybe it was the other way around.
Note: I am not naming any names as I know people will be a little annoyed if I do, but the overall scenario is true.
About some time ago, the LS had found that Cerberus was up and unclaimed. A quick search of the area gave only a couple of people in the zone, not nearly enough to even attempt to take him and none of the names registered as maybe another LS scouting the spawn. Our LS organized and unfortunately, it was fairly early in the day, so not enough members were online to effectively take him. I got a WHM friend to come help and she did so willingly. We started to work away on Cerberus, but unfortunately, we wiped on the first attempt. Not enough people and we had a string of bad luck when we claimed.
Another group of people showed up and we decided it would be fine if we formed together to take down the NM. It had been decided that one member from our group and one from theirs would lot if Algol dropped. They would be allowed to keep the great sword for personal use. We did extremely well on the second attempt, getting Cerberus down to approximately 25%. However, at that time, he got off Gates of Hades which effectively wiped the entire alliance and Kaizen, who had been gathering since our second attempt, claimed not long after. Now we obviously didn’t get the Algol when if it dropped (it didn’t for Kaizen) and the LS member couldn’t lot it; however, he was still given the option to lot it.
Then about two weeks ago after a server update, I had gotten the LS interested in camping King Arthro. We had camped him before a couple of times with no real success, but we were hoping since there didn’t seem to be many people there, we would have a good chance. I was the first one at camp and logged there before the update telling the LS to please come camp with me. After the update, we got a lot of members to show up at which point the LS leader decided that a NIN would be allowed to lot the speed belt if we got the claim and drop. Another NIN showed up and he was also given the same option. Again, we didn’t claim and no drop, but the option was still there.
It was around this time, I figured I would ask if I could get something through the LS, something I had always wanted, but knew I couldn’t afford. I asked the LS and the LS leader directly if it was ok if I got the ToD of a specific NM, could we kill it and I would be allowed to lot the drop. Well, as you’d expect, he wanted to know what NM and I told him. I wanted to kill Overlord Bakgodek for the Juggernaut Axe and when I stated this in the LS, a warrior in the LS also stated his desire for this weapon. I said that since his warrior could use it, he should lot it, but he insisted if I got the ToD, I should lot. Well the leader said ok, but he was kind of iffy on his answer. So to be absolutely sure, I asked again making sure I got an exact answer and I did. It was a yes.
Fast forward about a week and I finally got my mule into Monastic Caverns. Took some work running safely from Bastok all the way to Davoi and then a lot more to get someone to actually help me get inside Monastic caverns. I spent about a week camping to get his ToD, but fortunately for me, my friend who finally helped me get into the spawn area knew his approximate window. When I woke up the next day, he spawn at about that time and I got his window. I kept updating his window for a week straight since he is the HQ of the Orcish Overlord and wouldn’t pop for 3-7 days. He popped a second time and I waited getting a new ToD each day. So one day, the only LS who had been camping him regularly, Quest Fantasy hadn’t been in the zone (I did a search and I assume Aspid’s window overlapped that particular day) and Orc Overlord was up and unclaimed. So to get a fresh ToD, I asked my LS for help. What do I get? Barraged with questions of why they should help and why should I be allowed to have the axe. Well I decided, at that time arguing with the members giving me trouble wasn’t worth the effort and since the LS leader wasn’t in the shell at the time, he would say it was ok since he had already stated it was. I then waited for Quest Fantasy to kill him for the new ToD.
Another day passes and I ask for help again, this time, I ask if I can get help to kill the NM for the next day and I wanted an exact answer if I could lot even though I had already been previously given a “yes”. The answer changed. It wasn’t a “no”. It definitely wasn’t a “yes” either. Instead of getting one answer, I get thirty different ones and not really answers as much as excuses why not to and questions about why they should. I tried to explain that the NIN were given the option to lot the speed belt, so I should be given the same chance. They didn’t want to hear it. I was asked my warriors level which at the time was level 60 which I am actively leveling and the axe was 70, they used it as a reason to not help me. They said I should be 70 at least to bother camping it. I tried to explain, I like getting gear early so when I do level, I can use it immediately and I had the ToD now and the LS can camp it now before the window is at a bad time and we can no longer camp it for a long time. No one and I mean no one listened. Then I got these replies which bothered me very much:
“We aren’t a HNM LS”
“We don’t camp HNM”
Well this was news to me. We camped KA. We attempted Cerberus. Those are all the actions of a HNM shell. Well maybe I was mistaken. But wait, we have a HNM section to our forums and to further that, we have two open threads entitled “HNM ToD” and Which HNM would you like to camp?”. The overall theme of the replies beyond we refuse to camp Bakgodek, ever, was since the item was expensive, they didn’t feel I should lot it. The value of the item came into their reason quite a bit so I believe and I am sure many will agree that it was the main reason people wouldn’t be so willing to help.
Well this just bothered me a lot. I have been with the LS about 2 months now since the formation of the shell and I’ve helped out every chance I can (excluding 1 time). I go to sky farming every time. I’ve been to all the god runs. I have yet to receive anything whether it is in the form of help or an actual item. This one time I asked for help, not only was I told no unanimously, I wasn’t even given the same treatment the other members were given. Some members were given the option to lot expensive money items (in both occasions, the items are worth far more than the axe) if we obtained them and I think if they are given the option so should I. So I got annoyed. Why should I be with a shell that puts certain members above others? I put in a lot of effort and try to help the shell with nothing to show for it and nothing will be shown from it. And for the record, I had given them my word I would both use the item and not leave the LS.
Now as for my questions: Should I be angry that I am not allowed to get the axe? Is wrong of me to expect my LS to help me like I did? Why or why not? Am I overreacting? And why?
Note: I have since left the shell and although this happened just before I left, it wasn’t the only reason for my departure. It just didn’t help the cause any.
And for my last part. The system of lotting money drops and allowing certain LS members to obtain the items seems, not flawed, but difficult to say the least (please don't use this as justification for your response, as far as I am concerned, once any member is or was given the chance, everyone should be). From my perspective you cannot satisfy everyone. If you an entire LS to camped one HNM, it would take a very long time to get everyone the same item and of course not everyone wants the same item. So then you need to camp multiple HNMs and even then, how do you consider it fair when one item may be cheaper than another? Then there are the people who leave before getting everyone their desired items. From what I have seen, it seems that when a LS chooses a lotting system like this, many members will get their items and leave before ever fully returning the favor given them. And there is what happened to me. People will help certain members at certain times and at others refuse to aid another member even if he or she has worked and earned that treatment (which I do believe I did, I had been with the shell longer than two of the members allowed to lot items).
So is a lotting system allowing members to obtain money items so flawed it won’t work? Has there ever been a shell that has actually done this and been successful in both obtaining members items and lasting as a shell? I’ve seen some shells with this system, but they did last very long since most members got their items and then left. Shells that sell the money drops among attending members seem to last far longer although they are also far more abundant, so it might just be that it seems that way, but in reality, both systems work equally.
I would also like also to state this is not a flame so don’t start with me. Yes, I am still annoyed at how things went down, but there is nothing I can do to fix it now nor would I have changed anything I did. I don’t feel I did anything particularly wrong with expecting to lot the axe especially after I was told I could and after other members were given a similar option. However, I will say this, it greatly bothers me that the responses from the entire LS were so vehemently against me and how the leader told me yes in the beginning, but changed his mind after I had already spent a lot of time camping for the ToD. It just doesn’t seem right to me that a LS would act like that without solid reasons (Something they didn’t give me when they said no, but more like they were fishing for reasons to give no). Maybe I was a little too angry when I asked it having known I was wasting my time and their responses were falling on deaf ears... or maybe it was the other way around.