Make Pudding Immune to Melee?

[Firestreak]

BLM can't keep up with melee for DoT on T-VTs because the melees are affected by the relative level of the mob when calculating their damage - as well there's a much bigger shift in need for accuracy versus elemental damage when you change level - BLM don't need elemental on ITs but melees need accuracy/sushi. So BLM are going to be great DoT 1-70 but because there aren't IT equivalents of Puk camps, BLM don't get a fair shake in merit parties.

 

[Reauland]

I am using logic. You aren't plugging in if you have a rdm and/or bard and/or drinks and/or cor in the party. Nuking for 75% of the fight then resting until the next mob comes in is a nice way to conserve MP. I hate to personalize, but ive seen black mages pull out decent damage without having to stop nuking completely.

The problem with that, Sura, is that the more non-tp'ers you throw in the mix, the further you move away from the concept of a tp burn.

Furthermore, I believe that a popular merit burn method(at least I've heard of this happening in the old sky merit parties), is that the camp "wanders;" that is, they're moving to the mob instead of pulling the mob back to a set camp.

Doing that sort of makes resting hard, and is the very reason that Brd/whm and/or Rdm/Whm are generally preferred as the healers in those setups.

 

[Suragata]

The problem with that, Sura, is that the more non-tp'ers you throw in the mix, the further you move away from the concept of a tp burn.

Furthermore, I believe that a popular merit burn method(at least I've heard of this happening in the old sky merit parties), is that the camp "wanders;" that is, they're moving to the mob instead of pulling the mob back to a set camp.

Doing that sort of makes resting hard, and is the very reason that Brd/whm and/or Rdm/Whm are generally preferred as the healers in those setups.

I'm sorry reau, I always seem to base things on my own experiences. That, my friend, is where my confusion sets in whenever others bring proof of alternate methods. Our pt was consisted of the members listed in my last post, and the warp from normal exp pt to tpburn was the transition needed to attain the 8k an hr. I am so unclear on some points, i should be slapped lol.

 

[Calais]

What if the party wasnt initially a TPburn? It started as war nin cor blm whm drg. When the whm left, we had to wait to get the rdm seeking (only healer avail), and then the cor dced, so we got a brd, then the nin dced, got another war to help tank, then the blm had to leave, so we grabbed a third war. It started out as a normal exp pt, and I guess you could say it ended as a tpburn.

My post wasn't really directed at you Sura, was just in general. And at 67 (I assume that's the level of the party) you can't really burn like you can at a 75 merit party. Either way, I don't really understand the point of your reply so I'm just going to end this on a happy note with Billy Zane.

 

[Blackmagik]

My post wasn't really directed at you Sura, was just in general. And at 67 (I assume that's the level of the party) you can't really burn like you can at a 75 merit party. Either way, I don't really understand the point of your reply so I'm just going to end this on a happy note with Billy Zane.

BILLYZANE WOOOOOOOOO! HES SO DREAMY! amirite? well, i know you love him cal

 

[Suragata]

My post wasn't really directed at you Sura, was just in general. And at 67 (I assume that's the level of the party) you can't really burn like you can at a 75 merit party. Either way, I don't really understand the point of your reply so I'm just going to end this on a happy note with Billy Zane.

lol billy zane always tickles my gut, but anyway. The reason i replied saying what i did was because I thought u were targetting my post lol. Also it was somewhat of a detail that i left out which i knew would be slapped eventually. The setup we had at the start, and the speed of how our tp was going, the blm could MB at the drop of a hat, and he hardly had to rest as much as was said by Shyr. I guess we all make mistakes, mine just seems to be misconception.

 

[Shyrra]

If you've got a standard party setup in the mid-60s, sure, get a BLM, the nice 1k burst is good to see, and not that bad. I was referring to merits... seeing as how that's what the OP was about, Flans are a merit camp. Meriting, if you've got 3 WAR, a DRG, a BRD, and a RDM, or whatever setup you describe.. You'd have to be a lunatic to replace any of those 4 melee with a BLM.

 

[Suragata]

If you've got a standard party setup in the mid-60s, sure, get a BLM, the nice 1k burst is good to see, and not that bad. I was referring to merits... seeing as how that's what the OP was about, Flans are a merit camp. Meriting, if you've got 3 WAR, a DRG, a BRD, and a RDM, or whatever setup you describe.. You'd have to be a lunatic to replace any of those 4 melee with a BLM.

Agreed, and I understand that we were on different terms and I drifted off of the grounds of which made your arguement relevant. I never seem to keep on the same grounds >.<

 

[Botosai]

Perhaps thats your way of saying "hypocrit" but I shit you not when i say what i said was the truth. 8k an hr is quite decent if you ask me, and a nice 500-600 wheeling thrust kept up with the wars' inconsistant 300-700 rampages. Also i worked as a nice hate-distributer in some instances. Seeing chain 7s in a few times was nice as well, so I wouldn't say i slowed the pt down at all, but you making that comment has derailed the topic at hand and caused me to drift off into space, thanks.

wtf kind of War were you partying with? Those numbers are really low for rampage, try getting a better warrior next time <.<

 

[Mishaela]

Wow. If we're gonna make Puddings immune to melee, can we make Spinners immune to nukes so BLM parties can't round up a dozen or two of em and -ga spam em for ~6000xp in 15mins? Sounds like a fair trade.

 

[Suragata]

wtf kind of War were you partying with? Those numbers are really low for rampage, try getting a better warrior next time <.<

Notice I had 3 wars in the party. 2 of them had 30-60 acc added, and the other i didnt bother checking kuz they all looked the same. But anyway, Rampage is a multi-hit WS as you know, and if berserk and warcry and the buffs are all up, and aggressor isnt up, and so many things that happen too often occur, there will be a short amount of damage once and a while from each of the wars, and it all adds up.

EDIT: I did however see a few 800s in that party and one 1015 in the last party i had (not the same one). I dont doubt war is a superb DD but DRG is up to par when you plug in wyvern additional damage and jumps (if they hit lolz).

 

[delsus]

Notice I had 3 wars in the party. 2 of them had 30-60 acc added, and the other i didnt bother checking kuz they all looked the same. But anyway, Rampage is a multi-hit WS as you know, and if berserk and warcry and the buffs are all up, and aggressor isnt up, and so many things that happen too often occur, there will be a short amount of damage once and a while from each of the wars, and it all adds up.

EDIT: I did however see a few 800s in that party and one 1015 in the last party i had (not the same one). I dont doubt war is a superb DD but DRG is up to par when you plug in wyvern additional damage and jumps (if they hit lolz).

If you double attack, get 1-5 crits in. Get a lucky shot. Tons of things heck seen tons of relic WS do shitty on some things. Games is alot of luck

 

[Suragata]

If you double attack, get 1-5 crits in. Get a lucky shot. Tons of things heck seen tons of relic WS do shitty on some things. Games is alot of luck

For once i can QFT kuz i finally looked it up on wikipedia XD

 

[Araelus]

Wow. If we're gonna make Puddings immune to melee, can we make Spinners immune to nukes so BLM parties can't round up a dozen or two of em and -ga spam em for ~6000xp in 15mins? Sounds like a fair trade.

That sounds fair, actually... at the same time they could fix the SMN 2hr trick. It's easy to gather up tons of mobs on a high level and have 2~3 Summoners BP. Chain [however many mobs you gathered] in three seconds or less of combat.

I understand that the -ga line is designed to do AoE damage, but I could double spell damage output in the 60s by having a second Lesser Colibri nearby (and hoping the ranger tanks could pull it off me, haha). That seems to bring them up in terms of damage::MP but being able to do that with 10+ mobs is a problem.

Regardless, the thread title was kind of intented to be a flame. I don't really expect or want SE to increase the melee damage percent down on any mobs, just for people to use common sense in terms of what they xp on.

"Use common sense" isn't a flameboard title unless I add "fsking idiots" to it. :biggrin:

heck seen tons of relic WS do shitty on some things. Games is alot of luck

Famously, Discordian's first Knights of Round missed a Darter.

 

[Calais]

BILLYZANE WOOOOOOOOO! HES SO DREAMY! amirite? well, i know you love him cal

But I'd give him up for you if you'd only come merit with us again. *tear*

Wow. If we're gonna make Puddings immune to melee, can we make Spinners immune to nukes so BLM parties can't round up a dozen or two of em and -ga spam em for ~6000xp in 15mins? Sounds like a fair trade.

I've actually never heard of that...so now I've got to go try it. Training VT mobs doesn't sound very healthy though. >_>

 

[Mishaela]

That sounds fair, actually... at the same time they could fix the SMN 2hr trick. It's easy to gather up tons of mobs on a high level and have 2~3 Summoners BP. Chain [however many mobs you gathered] in three seconds or less of combat.

You're joking, right? Avatar 2h has an absurdly high resist rate post-70, and will rarely break 1000 damage in addition to costing the SMN's entire MP pool. Not to mention that three SMNs will at the very best drop the spiders by 2/3 their HP if they don't resist. Then the hoarde kills the avatars and resumes ripping apart the SMNs, unless you have some form of sleep that'll last long enough for the SMNs to get their MP back. Granted, 5 SMNs might be able to pull this off but even then once their 2h is done, the party is pretty much over.

You really can't compare BLMs able to consistantly clear close to three dozen spiders in 5 minutes for as long as they please (barring the 16 minute repops) to SMNs being able to clear them in 2-3 minutes once every 2 hours at soonest =/


Not to mention it'd make Fenrir and Super-Prime fights a total joke, as well as SMN mobs in Dynamis (as if sleeping the avatar and zerging the SMN wasn't already easy)

 

[hellstorm]

You have remeber that tp burn party are built to kill t-vt mobs as fast as they can get as much exp as possible. For normal setup it base on getting higher lvl mobs VT- IT mobs and chain 5-6 them to get as much exp out of each mob. On a T-VT mob a decent cannin can get the mob down in 15-20 sec flat. Meaning that by time blm stands up and start casting burst the mob is dead before the spell is casted. A melee whould not have to rest and one less person a rdm has to refresh which means ~250 extra mp they can use to heal with, not like they have to because with /nin the mob dead before shadows die. If you in a balance party at 75 fighting IT then blm is good 6th. Only places you that though is the range, sky(golems), and trees in caedarva mire, and trolls.

As for other blm spots there always sky or krt the old places that blm cannon use to go to.

 

[Araelus]

You're joking, right? Avatar 2h has an absurdly high resist rate post-70, and will rarely break 1000 damage in addition to costing the SMN's entire MP pool.

...

You really can't compare BLMs able to consistantly clear close to three dozen spiders in 5 minutes for as long as they please (barring the 16 minute repops) to SMNs being able to clear them in 2-3 minutes once every 2 hours at soonest =/

I was mostly kidding, Mish. ; ; Didn't mean to pick a fight with you...

The "2hr trick" is wonderful for levelling SMN from 1 to 20 or so, however, if you can pull it off. I never did... stories from Cythe. ~_~;

I understand why you thought I meant "high level SMN" - I mean gather the train on a high level alternate... since the monsters used for this are level 20-30 or so. My fault for horrendous wording.

 

[Shyrra]

Mish, I don't understand how BLMs could survive the 30mob train that you're speaking of... and how do they do enough damage to kill them? With 5 BLMs nuking Ga-3 on 30mobs.... the damage would be weak... Please, fill me in, it seems highly unlikely that this strategy works...

 

[Araelus]

Well, Shyrra, if all those BLMs had Enfeebling merited (like I do coff coff ... go go weakened Elemental) they could SleepgaII the train, huh.

And then die when the -ga got resisted. -_-;