Makes Sense To Me

Duddits said:
I think the majority of people would say NO. You still have to pass a test that you have to read regardless what language its in.
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According to Skaw, language can be entirely replaced with appropriate symbology.
 
Raesvelg said:
According to Skaw, language can be entirely replaced with appropriate symbology.
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Makes me curious to see what construction companies may come up with. There are sooo many variables with construction. From the detours they may offer (which often give written instruction i.e. which roads to use to hit the major). To the date in which construction may end. Or that the speeding fines are doubled when road workers are present.

I like pretty pictures, but I'd still be very interested to see what they come up with to communicate such detailed information.
 
Morcheeba said:
Makes me curious to see what construction companies may come up with. There are sooo many variables with construction. From the detours they may offer (which often give written instruction i.e. which roads to use to hit the major). To the date in which construction may end. Or that the speeding fines are doubled when road workers are present.

I like pretty pictures, but I'd still be very interested to see what they come up with to communicate such detailed information.
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Honestly, I've yet to see any such detailed detours in any of the major cities i've been in. Cities that I know well enough, I already know what detours to take if my usual commute is blocked, any other instance, I just follow the guy in front of me :D The only case where I would see this apply is when said people who don't understand english are brand new to the area, but again, I've yet to see detailed instructions when it comes to detours....

To my knowledge, most street signs are somewhat universal, and well known regardless of what country you're in. Stop signs are red octagons almost across the board, as are yield signs, speed limit signs, etc.

Raesvelg said:
Of course, to do so raises the question as to whether or not we are, in fact, giving a bit of a wink-and-nod, and letting someone who is unable to read road signs out onto the road, and as such is incapable of truly passing a written driving test, and as such constitutes a risk to other drivers.

In so doing, we, in effect, create a tyranny of the minority, in which the rights of the majority (safe driving) are suppressed in favor of the privileges of the minority (the ability to drive).

An obvious compromise, then, is to write a hybrid test; one in which all road signs are in English, coupled with a basic English proficiency exam, to drivers who desire to take the test in a language other than English.

In this fashion, we would ensure a basic level of safety, while affording immigrants the privilege of a driver's license without forcing them to fully master a new language, thus allowing them to take full advantage of a society that is largely built around the automobile, most places outside of select urban centers.
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I just love your way with words. See this is one of the best arguments I've seen on this thread so far. I honestly have nothing to say against your point, since it seems to make the best compromise possible.
 
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Hexx said:
Honestly, I've yet to see any such detailed detours in any of the major cities i've been in. Cities that I know well enough, I already know what detours to take if my usual commute is blocked, any other instance, I just follow the guy in front of me :D The only case where I would see this apply is when said people who don't understand english are brand new to the area, but again, I've yet to see detailed instructions when it comes to detours....

To my knowledge, most street signs are somewhat universal, and well known regardless of what country you're in. Stop signs are red octagons almost across the board, as are yield signs, speed limit signs, etc.
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Maybe it's just here lol.

I would love to give you an example, and on any other day I'm sure there would be plently but alas half my families last name is Murphy and boy to we love our law. There is a shit ton of construction everywhere around here but not with any detours involved.

I have seen it myself on many occasion though. Much like this;

'Dundas closed between Islington Ave. & Cawthraw St. Use Dixie Rd North to Dundas W. Construction completion targeted May 2010.'

That is (although totally speculated) a very accurate representation of what you may see on roads here. And when you're in a large metropolitan that overwhelms the most seasoned drivers, a driver that cannot read a sign like that to understand what is happening may be that much more a risk for the rest of us.

Panic is often the cause of accidents on the road and inexperienced or unfamiliar drivers are the most likely to panic.
 
Morcheeba said:
Maybe it's just here lol.

I would love to give you an example, and on any other day I'm sure there would be plently but alas half my families last name is Murphy and boy to we love our law. There is a shit ton of construction everywhere around here but not with any detours involved.

I have seen it myself on many occasion though. Much like this;

'Dundas closed between Islington Ave. & Cawthraw St. Use Dixie Rd North to Dundas W. Construction completion targeted May 2010.'

That is (although totally speculated) a very accurate representation of what you may see on roads here. And when you're in a large metropolitan that overwhelms the most seasoned drivers, a driver that cannot read a sign like that to understand what is happening may be that much more a risk for the rest of us.

Panic is often the cause of accidents on the road and inexperienced or unfamiliar drivers are the most likely to panic.
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I take my previous statement back, I HAVE seen similar notification on the road while driving about in SoCal (southern california), I was under the impression you meant much more detailed than that LOL.
 
and also those electronic signs above highways, or the portable ones construction crews setup beside highways, that list different traffic info and warnings as needed by different circumstances, how exactly are those supposed to display universal symbols?
 
Thelona said:
and also those electronic signs above highways, or the portable ones construction crews setup beside highways, that list different traffic info and warnings as needed by different circumstances, how exactly are those supposed to display universal symbols?
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Only time i've seen any pertinent information on the electronic ones has been when they post about accidents on the road ahead, or in the case of an abducted child, as for construction signs, ive seen them posted along with picture signs that we all know and recognize. Honestly, I would think the solution to this issue couldnt be a broad one, applied to all cities and states, more like it would have to be taken care of regionally depending on the needs of each area. Some parts of the country have a higher concentration of immigrants, and different nationalities within each of those zones.
 
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Hexx said:
I take my previous statement back, I HAVE seen similar notification on the road while driving about in SoCal (southern california), I was under the impression you meant much more detailed than that LOL.
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There are way detailed ones on way to & from work. But I haven't read them enough to have memorized them. Same ones everyday, they say you should exercise your brainpan by switching up your commute.

But yeah. I've seen people react poorly to much less hectic situations on the road.

If we're talking about one of those drivers that aren't too comfortable on the busy streets or highways to begin with being thrown a curve ball, and not understanding what's going on, I wouldn't want to be sharing the road with them. And that's the scenario I keep picturing.
 
Duddits said:
I think the majority of people would say NO. You still have to pass a test that you have to read regardless what language its in.
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That's exactly my point. Not being able to read English, be it signs or a written exam, because you're illiterate, is fundamentally no different from not being able to read English because you can only read, for example, in Spanish.
 
Miros said:
Interesting to note, after looking through the IRS website for a little bit they only offer form 1040 in English. If that's the case, how would this knowledge affect an argument?
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The IRS does have a toll free line to assist Spanish speaking individuals through the process though. I dunno man, seems pretty multilingual friendly to me.

Georgebobbilly said:
Skaw, the issue isn't about immigrants. it's about people not speaking the language that everything in this country, including it's road signs, are written in.


The rest of your post is irrelevant as it's a logical fallacy.
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The issue is about immigrants, as first generation immigrants are going to be your primary pool of people who aren't speaking English. The rest? A very low minority of second generation immigrants.

Your entire adult existance is a logical fallacy if you're seriously that incapable of noticing it.
 
Skaw said:
Atleast I'm bigoted against intolerance, something inherently evil, rather than someone for something as trivial as how they communicate. Hell, what about those who can speak and read English, but feel much more comfortable or confident taking a test in their native tongue?
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This. I apologize if something to this effect has been said already. I have a pretty good command of french, I've been studying it since 7th grade. That being said, if given a choice between taking a test in English or in French for something as important as being able to drive, I'd much rather take it in English. I'm fairly certain I can figure out what the French road signs say when you get right down to it. However test taking does not always come easily to people.

I'd also like to point out that I know a native born English speaker here in NY who can't read. He has a license anyway. Apparently he can get by puzzling out the pictures.
 
Skaw said:
The IRS does have a toll free line to assist Spanish speaking individuals through the process though. I dunno man, seems pretty multilingual friendly to me.



The issue is about immigrants, as first generation immigrants are going to be your primary pool of people who aren't speaking English. The rest? A very low minority of second generation immigrants.

Your entire adult existance is a logical fallacy if you're seriously that incapable of noticing it.
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So you only care about the immigrants, not surprising. See while most of us here are talking about everyone who can't speak english, you limit yourself to a portion of the people being targeted. and yes before you go off on a tirade about the none english speaking people being targeted of course they are being targeted everyone already knows it.

No it isn't about immigrants, it's about none english speaking people living in America, you seem to be a little nationalist against your own nation there.

Also, again, the insulting people thing, only making you look more desperate.
 
Dido said:
I'd also like to point out that I know a native born English speaker here in NY who can't read. He has a license anyway. Apparently he can get by puzzling out the pictures.
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Unless his drivers license test contained nothing but pictures which I highly doubt, he either cheated somehow or the person at the DMV screwed up.
 
Georgebobbilly said:
So you only care about the immigrants, not surprising. See while most of us here are talking about everyone who can't speak english, you limit yourself to a portion of the people being targeted. and yes before you go off on a tirade about the none english speaking people being targeted of course they are being targeted everyone already knows it.

No it isn't about immigrants, it's about none english speaking people living in America, you seem to be a little nationalist against your own nation there.

Also, again, the insulting people thing, only making you look more desperate.
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Nationalist against my own nation who touts being a melting pot of immigrants by siding with the immigrants..?

Can I have some of that pot, bro?

Please, tell me of any non-immigrant, non-English speaking citizens of the United States. Such a creature of mythology must be found.
 
Duddits said:
Unless his drivers license test contained nothing but pictures which I highly doubt, he either cheated somehow or the person at the DMV screwed up.
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Unfortunately I can't ask him. But test taking abilities aside he's a good driver with a clean record, otherwise we wouldn't be able to allow him to drive for our company. Which he does every day.
 
Skaw said:
Nationalist against my own nation who touts being a melting pot of immigrants by siding with the immigrants..?

Can I have some of that pot, bro?

Please, tell me of any non-immigrant, non-English speaking citizens of the United States. Such a creature of mythology must be found.
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try the mountains where they are so far gone from the rest of civilization they have forgotten the native tongue, or you can try a deeply ethnic neighborhood where the kids don't go to school you'll find some there. BTW things that exist are not creatures of mythology, and you yourself admited to there existence allow me to refresh your oh so short memory.

short memory said:
first generation immigrants are going to be your primary pool of people who aren't speaking English. The rest? A very low minority of second generation immigrants.
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Georgebobbilly said:
none english speaking people
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Not really trying to be the grammar gestapo here but I think the word you're looking for here is "non" as in "non english speaking people". None means "Are there anymore doughnuts? No, I'm sorry, there are "none" left.
 
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