Makes Sense To Me

[Raesvelg]

Back to the substance of the debate, then.

Do you, or do you not, support giving driving licenses to the illiterate?

 

[Skaw]

There is a very large difference between speaking, reading, and writing in a different language and being unable to read or write at all. You're placing up a very terrible straw man argument in the same vein as the person that brought up the blind. Should we remove English signs and replace them with symbols? Yes, we should. English is not a federally selected official language of the United States. However, should that come to pass, it still will not help the illiterate take their written driving test if they're incapable of showing that they understand what traffic signs portrayed.

Edit: Yet, the illiterate should still legally be able to acquire a license if they were verbally tutored enough to show that they're able to link the symbols to the correct meanings.

 

[Valandil]

Okay, say you allow a driver's license exam to be taken in a language other than English. Where does it stop? According to the 2000 Census, there are 337 languages spoken in the United States. Since the written exam is a government document, if the Supreme Court, be it state court of the federal one, accepts it as precedent then you are going to have to provide every government document in every possible language. What about textbooks and exams in public secondary schools and universities? Tax documents? Job applications (Equal Opportunity Employment Act)? Loan documents (Equal Opportunity Lending)? At some point you HAVE to say no. Where you define the stopping point, or even not allowing a starting point at all, is an arbitrary decision, but for the sake of functionality is HAS to be made. You cannot justify having SOME government documents in SOME languages, but not other documents or other languages. The 2000 Census also showed that 82% of respondents considered English to be their native tongue and 96% considered themselves to have a fairly functional grasp on the language.

Also, please explain how Person A, who cannot read English because said person is illiterate, is different from Person B, who cannot read English because said person does not speak English. When you're talking about a WRITTEN examination they are, fundamentally, EXACTLY the same. At least if you read the questions aloud to the illiterate person they would, more than likely, be able to understand and answer the questions.

 

[Skaw]

Because ones a language barrier easily circumvented by de-languagizing road signs and the others a learning disability that isn't easily overcome the longer you take to try to beat.

Also, it's the age of Computers and the Internet, people. You don't need physical copies of government/educational texts laying around. So long as it's available somehow for someone who needs it to be able to get it with the simple push of a print button(either from their home PC or from a government one, who gives a shit?)

 

[Duddits]

There is a very large difference between speaking, reading, and writing in a different language and being unable to read or write at all. You're placing up a very terrible straw man argument in the same vein as the person that brought up the blind. Should we remove English signs and replace them with symbols? Yes, we should. English is not a federally selected official language of the United States. However, should that come to pass, it still will not help the illiterate take their written driving test if they're incapable of showing that they understand what traffic signs portrayed.

Edit: Yet, the illiterate should still legally be able to acquire a license if they were verbally tutored enough to show that they're able to link the symbols to the correct meanings.

I can see accommodating people with disabilities but accommodating people that are just too lazy to learn how to read and write? No thank you. If we did it your way, this country's highways would be filled with signs reminding us that we're sharing the road with people that shouldn't be there in the first place. I think most people would agree that this country goes out of its way to teach its citizens how to read and write English, not dumb down road signs for illiterates and foreign citizens that refuse to learn their host nations language.

 

[Grandphoenix]

If you're against people being prejudice to others than you're contradicting yourself by discriminating discrimination.

"Why are you intolerant of my intolerance?"

That kind of thinking is one of the biggest problems blacks had to fight against, and why homosexuals are doing the same thing today. Congratulations - you're part of the problem.

I mean, it may seem easier hating someone over something that has absolutely no impact on my life such as who they blow, the color of their skin, or what language they speak. But maybe it's actually a lot easier to not get grossed out/hemorrhoid-causing angry every time I see two men hugging or a black/brown/asian person sitting in the seat next to me because of (choice of superficial horse crap).

Do you see the logical hypocriticalness of the argument though? What makes either side anymore right? You hate the haters? Hate begets hate in that vicious cycle then.

I normally make the same argument as you say I'm part of, to my students because to see black children slam away at homosexuals is something that just reeks of irony to me.

Growing up as bi-racial and accepted by neither community, I've learned to see race for what it is, a social construct. There's only one thing I'm intolerant of: ignorance. Yet again the human condition is ironic as no matter how old I am or finely educated, there's always something I'll be lacking knowledge in.

 

[Raesvelg]

There is a very large difference between speaking, reading, and writing in a different language and being unable to read or write at all. You're placing up a very terrible straw man argument in the same vein as the person that brought up the blind. Should we remove English signs and replace them with symbols? Yes, we should. English is not a federally selected official language of the United States. However, should that come to pass, it still will not help the illiterate take their written driving test if they're incapable of showing that they understand what traffic signs portrayed.

Edit: Yet, the illiterate should still legally be able to acquire a license if they were verbally tutored enough to show that they're able to link the symbols to the correct meanings.

Ah, but you do realize that there are signs, important signs, that cannot be simply translated into symbols, without forcing everyone to learn an entirely new logographic alphabet at least, at which point we're back to just forcing people to learn English anyway.

You can call it a straw man all you like, but it's no more incorrect than your automatic inference that an insistence on English as an official language automatically equates to racism.

In truth, it automatically equates to culturalism, which is slightly different, in that the ethnic origin of the individual is irrelevant, so long as they hew to the same culture.

And this shit ain't true. IN england everyone is well welcome EXCEPT Americans.

I'd like to say that your ignorance astounds me, but given the rest of what you posted... Nah, not really surprised to read this at all.

Here's a plank from the Conservative party platform. I might also add that the Conservatives currently control the greatest number of seats in Parliament.

We will promote integration into British society. There will be an English language test for anyone coming here from outside the EU to get married.

Sounds real welcoming, doesn't it?

 

[Morcheeba]

Because he says "This is Alabama, we speak English. If you want to live here, learn it." He's suggesting to people they shouldn't live somewhere because they don't fit in to his criteria. It's hate.

I honestly figured you would have been smart enough to not be played by the Driver's Test front, Morcheeba.

So perhaps the real motivation is driven by race, there's no way of really knowing that. Because I feel this is a very real issue here on my roads, the honest truth is I agree with making graduated licensing a stricter process. I'm unsure if you have graduated licensing in the states, but I couldn't possibly believe that this isn't a very real issue on your roads.

 

[ShomeGhuye]

Pffft this thread and Miros himself fail for allowing this crap.

Miros doesn't fail unless he chooses to fail. He's like the Chuck Norris of FFXI.

 

[Miruyasha]

I look at it like you come to the country, you wanna live here, so learn the native tongue. You wouldn't go to another country and expect them to learn english for you just because you speak it. Your in the minority, so you bend to their culture and their ways. Yes I know english is widely spoken almost everywhere but there's still plenty of countries that speak other languages as their primary. People having to take a citizenship test have to learn about our country's history, so why can't they learn the language of the native peoples?

 

[Skaw]

Well, English is far from the native tongue on American soil, so what then? The only thing you're setting out to do is promoting Imperialism even further.

 

[Raesvelg]

Well, English is far from the native tongue on American soil, so what then? The only thing you're setting out to do is promoting Imperialism even further.

It's the native tongue of the dominant culture, and let's not get into that ridiculous "who was there first" argument, since that's a fight that nobody wins.

 

[Miruyasha]

It's the native tongue of the dominant culture, and let's not get into that ridiculous "who was there first" argument, since that's a fight that nobody wins.

Well the Native Americans were here first that we know of. They were the indigenous people when Caucasians landed here but yeah, English is the language of the majority culture in america, that was the point I was trying to get across.

 

[Duddits]

Well the Native Americans were here first that we know of. They were the indigenous people when Caucasians landed here but yeah, English is the language of the majority culture in america, that was the point I was trying to get across.

Although Native Americans were here first, English was not their primary language. Even after the white man stole their land and herded them on to reservations, most of them adapted and learned to speak in the white mans forked tongue.

 

[Arctorus]

I look at it like you come to the country, you wanna live here, so learn the native tongue. You wouldn't go to another country and expect them to learn english for you just because you speak it. Your in the minority, so you bend to their culture and their ways. Yes I know english is widely spoken almost everywhere but there's still plenty of countries that speak other languages as their primary. People having to take a citizenship test have to learn about our country's history, so why can't they learn the language of the native peoples?

To put it simple. The Native language in the USA isn't english.
It is the primary yes it is but not the native.
Which means everything said previously, including what the moron on the video says is wrong.

 

[Duddits]

To put it simple. The Native language in the USA isn't english.
It is the primary yes it is but not the native.
Which means everything said previously, including what the moron on the video says is wrong.

You might want to watch the OP's video again and this time pay attention to what the moron said.

 

[Miruyasha]

While not the NATIVE tongue, it is the predominantly spoken language.

 

[Miros]

Ignore what Arctorus had to say. His rights to this forum have been revoked until further notice. Just go on about in the debate.

 

[Strid]

It's Alabama. They had a Voting Literacy Test(Anti-Black Voting blockade.) It's a WHITES ONLY PLEASE state, filled with WHITES ONLY PLEASE residents. It's not my fault it's an intolerant toilet.

I would expect this of someone who has never spent a lot of time in Alabama, not that there is any good reason to in the first place. What you say is largely false with exception to the areas near the Georgia border, most notably Esom Hill in which had a sign there that read, "Make no stops if you're black" until I was about 10 or so. In order to keep this short, I'll play a bit into the hand of being a racist. In Alabama the black majority showed to me that they were loud, obnoxious, lazy, and most importantly dangerous (trouble). So much so that when I moved to TX and was placed in a huge high school I was worried about all of the Black kids I knew would be there as well (I grew up in a small town that had a 2A school with only 3 blacks who were actually really cool people and ended up doing something with themselves despite their shitty parents). I'm open to anything (not sexually, to cover the jokes) so naturally I didn't go in there where a chip on my shoulder that Alabama Blacks represent all Blacks. Needless to say the Black race in TX represents itself in a totally different manner. While walking the streets of downtown Dallas at night you don't fear for your livelihood even a fraction as much as you would walking through most parts of Birmingham at night, it's like night and day and it has no bearing on policing, it's the way people handle themselves.

 

[Skaw]

What defines lazy in that description, being unemployed? If so, did it ever cross your mind that they might be largely unemployed because of being black? Which would obviously segue to being "trouble"some for most.