Map Modifications ?? {Hmmmm}

meeze said:
I'm on PS2 and a Mac. I downloaded limewire to get good porn for free, and that is all I've installed that wasn't originally on my comp. I know nothing about that stuff. Oh, and my friend walked me through the limewire process. I don't know how to do that stuff.
Click to expand...

The map modification that this post was originally about is a simple texture swap as in replacing the map files with ones that were in-effect drawn on. It's not a executable or application running so it's not a third party program.

If you enjoy taking the time to markup your maps or drawing on a notepad where things are, it's the same thing.

They do not give you maps that you do not have already in game(that I would agree would be cheating).

I'm off to watch Veronica Mars with more then 6 people in the room, please notify the MPAA that I am breaking fair-use with my store bought DVDs. Toodles.
 
Argus/Leech King have a 24 hour window GIMS?

Why are you people still arguing this? You are wrong, you are breaking TOS. Once again the difference between you and I mistaya since you say that it's you harmlessley break TOS and I harmfully break TOS is that I am not acting as if I am doing anything wrong and you are.
 
I distinctly remember there being a note about remaining at the computer in some document. It was cited many times during the whole fishbot scandal. Thats how so many fishbotters got banned, they were afk and a GM caught them.

As for the TOS being a legal document, it is a very grey area. It does not hold up in court in the USA.

edit: vang, i've admitted it was cheating several times. I dont and wont admit it is doing something that would hurt another person.
 
Answa~ said:
The ToS is a legal document. You are breaking laws.
Click to expand...
I'm no lawyer, but a user agrement of this type could not be used to convict someone of breaking the law. These kind of user argreements are about as binding and lawful as the waiver forms you sign to do anything these days. They amount to nothing and aren't worth the paper they are written on. Ask someone working in a hospital how much law those waiver forums carry they have everyone sign. :wink:

I'm not sure if that is the full ToS, it looks to short.
You are wrong, you are breaking TOS.
Click to expand...
Funny, how easy it is to say that when you ignore the other sides argument. :nono: You continue to ignore my entire argument that if we are cheating, so are you. You have yet to disprove that logic.

Actually, could you point out where in the ToS it says this is cheating? These modified maps are not cheat codes or devices.
 
Rones said:
I'm no lawyer, but a user agrement of this type could not be used to convict someone of breaking the law. These kind of user argreements are about as binding and lawful as the waiver forms you sign to do anything these days. They amount to nothing and aren't worth the paper they are written on. Ask someone working in a hospital how much law those waiver forums carry they have everyone sign. :wink:

I'm not sure if that is the full ToS, it looks to short.

Funny, how easy it is to say that when you ignore the other sides argument. :nono: You continue to ignore my entire argument that if we are cheating, so are you. You have yet to disprove that logic.

Actually, could you point out where in the ToS it says this is cheating? These modified maps are not cheat codes or devices.
Click to expand...


You quoted me saying it was breaking TOS.
 
vang said:
You quoted me saying it was breaking TOS.
Click to expand...
No, no I didn't. Feel free to recheck my posts. However, the TOS is right there, so you shouldn't have trouble just quoting the violation straight from that.
 
Quote:
You are wrong, you are breaking TOS.

Funny, how easy it is to say that when you ignore the other sides argument. You continue to ignore my entire argument that if we are cheating, so are you. You have yet to disprove that logic.

Actually, could you point out where in the ToS it says this is cheating? These modified maps are not cheat codes or devices.
 
If replacing .dat files is cheating, then surely replacing .map files is cheating?
 
You fail at quoting and reading. Try rereading what I wrote. If the map mod is cheating, then you are also cheating. I did not say it violated the ToS.

The more we discuss it the more I realize cheating in game is not defined by the ToS. The ToS is focused on non-gameplay for the most part. Thus, the definition of cheating falls outside the ToS. So even if we did break the ToS, it isn't necessarily cheating. Again, I will pose my previous statement for you to disprove:

If someone is cheating, someone must be cheated.
If no one is being cheated, no one is cheating.
 
Tiael said:
Proves that I didn't read the ToS
Click to expand...

I never read it, but always inferred that since GMs can remove afk players that it was there. Oh well I fucked up there :)

Thanks for posting it though, I love how it lists what really is cheating and what isn't... oh SE it's vague as usual you silly goose!
 
Mind you the whole TOS covers POL, among other things, what I just posted was from FFXI user agreement, not Playonline Member Agreement, Playonline Viewer and Tetra Master Software License agreement, FFXI software license agreement, etc.
 
Last edited:
You quoted me saying that you were BREAKING TOS then you respond to my quote and spin it around by saying "actually, you could point out in TOS where it says this is CHEATING?" Once again you quoted me saying "Breaking TOS" then respond to this saying "Explain how this is cheating"

and now that it took me 3 posts to clear that up:

I am not breaking TOS, you are breaking TOS. Therefore I am NOT breaking RULES SET BY SE, YOU ARE.

What have we here? Oh Webster. com ftw Mr. Wise guy.

and I quote :

"Main Entry: 1cheat
Pronunciation: 'chEt
Function: verb
transitive senses
1 : to deprive of something valuable by the use of deceit or fraud
2 : to influence or lead by deceit, trick, or artifice
3 : to elude or thwart by or as if by outwitting <cheat death>
intransitive senses
1 a : to practice fraud or trickery b : to violate rules dishonestly (as at cards or on an examination)
2 : to be sexually unfaithful -- usually used with on
- cheat·er noun"


Please read 1b to the class, oh fuck it since you will try to argue your way out of this too I will do it for you.

"TO VIOLATE RULES DISHONESTLY"

You, Sir, are violating rules. You sir, by definition are also CHEATING.

Good day.
 
Btw I do not like taking a tone with you Rones but your stubborn persistence even though everyone can see you are wrong is wearing on me at the moment.

Nothing personal =)
 
Vang said:
You quoted me saying that you were BREAKING TOS
Click to expand...
No, I didn't. I'll repeat that quote for you and bold where I said TOS.
Rones said:
Funny, how easy it is to say that when you ignore the other sides argument. You continue to ignore my entire argument that if we are cheating, so are you. You have yet to disprove that logic.

Actually, could you point out where in the ToS it says this is cheating? These modified maps are not cheat codes or devices.
Click to expand...
Now point out please exactly where I said we were 'breaking the ToS'? I just don't see it.
Please read 1b to the class
Click to expand...
There is no 1b. :old:
I am not breaking TOS, you are breaking TOS. Therefore I am NOT breaking RULES SET BY SE, YOU ARE.
Click to expand...
Since you ignored my last post, I'll repeat it. Please quote where in the ToS that the map edit is violating? Additionaly, in my previous post you ignored that I pointed out SE doesn't set the rules in the ToS for gameplay for the most part. Thus the definition of cheating becomes more abstract. That is how we arrive at my definiton of cheating: "Cheating characteristically is employed to create an unfair advantage." By that definition of cheating, if you find us guilty of cheating, then you must also find yourself guilty of cheating for having the same unfair advantage.

If we are cheating, who is being cheated?
 
according to GM's, any action taking other then the services provided by SE (like bazaaring, lfg, autorun) is strictly not allowed.

As in, using a turbo controller to claim monsters is not allowed as it's not a service provided by SE. Windower is not allowed because it's not a service provided by SE. .dat swapping is not allowed because it's not a service provided by SE.

So, sadly, I'd have to say that if you ONLY do what's allowed by SE, Vang is partly right, although he is wrong on the turbo controller part.

But by the definition on "cheating", I'd have to say Vang is wrong. Because looking up maps online is just as much cheating as replacing those maps with the in-game maps.
 
vang said:
What have we here? Oh Webster. com ftw Mr. Wise guy.

and I quote :

"Main Entry: 1cheat
Pronunciation: 'chEt
Function: verb
transitive senses
1 : to deprive of something valuable by the use of deceit or fraud
2 : to influence or lead by deceit, trick, or artifice
3 : to elude or thwart by or as if by outwitting <cheat death>
intransitive senses
1 a : to practice fraud or trickery b : to violate rules dishonestly (as at cards or on an examination)
2 : to be sexually unfaithful -- usually used with on
- cheat·er noun"


Please read 1b to the class, oh fuck it since you will try to argue your way out of this too I will do it for you.

"TO VIOLATE RULES DISHONESTLY"

You, Sir, are violating rules. You sir, by definition are also CHEATING.

Good day.
Click to expand...

I am NOT getting into the middle of you two goin' back and forth, but I will point out that there is indeed a 1B. I will also say that at a glance, it is easy to miss.

Please continue boys.
 
Kat said:
I am NOT getting into the middle of you two goin' back and forth, but I will point out that there is indeed a 1B. I will also say that at a glance, it is easy to miss.

Please continue boys.
Click to expand...
Ah so there is. Was expecting a new line for it.
But by the definition on "cheating", I'd have to say Vang is wrong. Because looking up maps online is just as much cheating as replacing those maps with the in-game maps.
Click to expand...
Someone gets it. :biggrin:
any action taking other then the services provided by SE (like bazaaring, lfg, autorun) is strictly not allowed.
Click to expand...
That is rather vague. How do they define service? Is using windows a service because it is not provided by SE? What about my mouse? What about my video card drivers?
 
Uzor said:
according to GM's, any action taking other then the services provided by SE (like bazaaring, lfg, autorun) is strictly not allowed.

As in, using a turbo controller to claim monsters is not allowed as it's not a service provided by SE. Windower is not allowed because it's not a service provided by SE. .dat swapping is not allowed because it's not a service provided by SE.

So, sadly, I'd have to say that if you ONLY do what's allowed by SE, Vang is partly right, although he is wrong on the turbo controller part.

But by the definition on "cheating", I'd have to say Vang is wrong. Because looking up maps online is just as much cheating as replacing those maps with the in-game maps.
Click to expand...


According to GM's I am also entitled to beat up small children... Please SHOW us where GMs say turbo controllers are breaking TOS then you will have ground to stand on. Simple heresay does not work here Uzor, gonna have to do better than that =)

But the simple fact of the matter is, and I do not know how many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many times I HAVE TO STRESS this enough. You are using a windower to run this map program correct? So you ARE breaking Tos by using Windower to run this program and once again by Webster. Com's definition ARE cheating.

I don't give a shit if Windower cures Aids, you are still breaking TOS.

What the hell else is there to be said? This is ridiculous repeating myself this many times.
 
I just want to add one more thing here. When we used to play Diabolo there was a maphack. I admit I used it. I didn't hack anything else or dup or anything like that but I did use the map. Well for quite a few years there was nothing ever done about it. Then all of a sudden after about 3 years of playing they decided to ban all accounts that used maphack.

I knew full well I was cheating persay while using the maphack. In that situation as in this one, it didn't hurt any other people to use it, but it was against the agreement. When it got out of hand is when they started banning accounts. I was very lucky (as were Heather and Eli) we never got caught.

I guess I'm basically agreeing with Vang on this where he says own up to it being cheating because it IS cheating, and IF you get caught, then so be it. Same as Mistaya has said.

So, okay, I admit it!!! I'm a cheater!!! I use the map thingy.

Well now, I feel better^^.

No Vang, no windower for the map. I cannot use windower or fraps on my comp. It doesn't give you any maps you don't already have, it just shows you a tad better where stuff is. For example KRT. It literally says King Ramperres Tomb. As I said in my first post, you know how I am with getting lost ingame. It just helps me find stuff a tad better.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top