Marijuana debate, decriminalized or no?

[Zimzum]

Just an FYI on this issue. Marlboro has a patent to make Marijuana cigs(Don't know why you'd need a patent must be a filter thing). It's only a matter of time until it's here and legal

JP Morgan and Philip Morris have had this since the 50's-60's. They only patented the names of what it would be called.

I heard it's not actually legal in Holland, just decriminalized and the authorities couldn't care less about it. Dunno if that's 100% true or not

Its not legal or decriminalized in Holland, it is only tollerated. And since its not glamorized there, they have less people who actialy smoke it. Mostly its americans filling up the coffee shops. I've been there and will tell you. Do not smoke outside the coffee shops or there will be trouble with the law.

Does one hallucinate while high on marijuana?

No. If they do then it has been laced with something. Eating it as in food "Canibus butter" or Brownies will cause a different kind of high. Eating the plant by itself will not do anything to you as it is not water soluble.


Here is a good story done on ABC a whille ago. the video quality isnt the best but it is pritty accurate on the current drug war.

ABC's A War on Drugs, A War on Ourselves with John Stossel
http://www.pot-tv.net/archive/shows/pottvshowse-1448.html

This site also has other videos, mostly for it. But there are others that show a down side too.

 

[Halifirien]

I support decriminalization. Marijuana's effects doesn't seem much worse than alcohol, as far as I'm concerned. If you can trust people to drink responsibly, you should be able to trust people to hit the bong responsibly. Just provide harsh penalties for people who abuse it and fuck up (like drunk drivers).

Meth is a scourge and I have no problems seeing the pricks who push that stuff locked up. But pot? Nah.

 

[Sneakypants]

People that don't understand maijuana (be honest) and hard drugs simply should not be speaking to this...
i.e. I've never done it, and I don't know anyone who's done meth, but I think it's wrong.

If you have a friend who has smoked pot, but you haven't, outside of, "I don't want to inhale it just because you do", you've got nothing.
If you don't have that experience, don't try speaking of gateway drugs either.

It goes back to being responsible for your actions. You choose to smoke pot. You choose to do crank, etc.

People that smoke weed aren't looking to blow it in your face. They are just doing their thing, and they are fine with other people not doing it. I have to believe they'd go somewhere else if someone was offended by them smoking up. I would. The last thing I'd want to argue about is something that stupid. If it were legal, I would probably still just keep it in my home. There's not much reason to take it everywhere with you, unless that's your whole life and world.

 

[Dowzer]

Ok ok, before I start now.


I smoke two joints before I smoke two joints, and then I smoke two more.

What exactly is the penalty for smoking marijuana anyways? Someone I know claimed it was an 80 dollar fine. If that's all then who even cares.

Personally, I don't see the difference between smoking pot and doing any other kind of drug. It's mostly done to get high, right? Meth? LSD? Cocaine? Alcohol? To get High?

What makes you say this? Have you experienced these substances before?
Please don't make such statements without having the knowledge of what these are capable of.
There is a big difference between smoking a joint and harder drugs. It's not just to 'get high'. For some people, these drugs can help. Consider ecstasy for your boyfriend because he can't get it up infront of your butt-ass ugly face anymore I've known hallucinogens for a while, they are very interesting.

If you are going to eat mushrooms or LSD to get 'high', then you are in for a very long and painfull ride.

These hallucinogens are not for 'enjoying the environment around you & to have a good party'. Mushrooms, LSD, Peyote/Mescaline are not to be fucked with. Whenever I've used these drugs with my friends, we've been well prepared for any expected events. Hallucinogens are used to better yourself and your mind. Throughout my experiences, they give you a chance to see yourself from a 3rd persons view. More or less, you'll sit like a vegetable for 8 hours - contemplating your existance -- which is something a lot of people should do.

Right?

I never knew that filling ones body with poison was a good thing.

Me neither, but it's unavoidable in todays world. Goto Mcdonalds.

Though I suppose you could always use the argument my brother likes to use about prostitution. If it's legal you can control it better right? And hey, then the Bad Dudes™ (drug dealers, pimps, whatever) aren't getting the money and can be spent on good things, right?

The Bad Dudes™ will simply 'export'. Say it with me e-x-p-o-r-t. More so than they do now. A pound of high quality Cannabis from British Columbia can be traded for a pound of cocaine in Washington/Oregon/California, I'm not kidding.

Or you could just say it's medical and everything's a-okay.

But hey, what people do to themselves isn't my concern. I mean, I hate you all anyways.

Right on.

 

[Aerandir]

What seperates Mary Jane from other drugs, including alcohol?

* It is not physically addictive. You might phem for a joint, but it is all in your head. You don't experience a physical withdrawl from it.

* It is not fatal. You can't die from smoking pot, name any other drug that you can say the same thing about.

* It does not impair your judgement as much as any other drug. Yes, your reflexes are jacked up, and your attention span is nil to none, so driving on it is not a good idea.

I could probably go on further, but I think this is enough to demonstrate the difference between mary, and the other drugs out there.

I say we kick it like the 1920's and give alcohol another ban. We legalize pot at the same time, put all the same restirictions on it as alcohol, and call it a day.

Frito Lay sales go up, and Chich and Chong are labeled as gods from there on out.

 

[Shaunessy]

Here's my question to all of you who don't like cigarettes. Or say that smokers are ruining your health. How many of you own/or drive a gas powered vehicle? Everyday people get into their cars and pollute the air many times over then still have to nerve to tell me that smoking my cigarette is killing people.

Now on to pot.

Aerander said:

* It does not impair your judgement as much as any other drug. Yes, your reflexes are jacked up, and your attention span is nil to none, so driving on it is not a good idea.

How is that not imparing your judgment? What about cocain where it speeds up preception? Would it be ok to drive coked out then?

Dowzer said:

These hallucinogens are not for 'enjoying the environment around you & to have a good party'. Mushrooms, LSD, Peyote/Mescaline are not to be fucked with. Whenever I've used these drugs with my friends, we've been well prepared for any expected events. Hallucinogens are used to better yourself and your mind. Throughout my experiences, they give you a chance to see yourself from a 3rd persons view. More or less, you'll sit like a vegetable for 8 hours - contemplating your existance -- which is something a lot of people should do.

How is getting all wacked out on LSD/Mushrooms/Cactus bettering yourself? Oh and you forgot about licking certain toads.

Darkdante said:

Far as I know you don't hallucinate on mariuana

It is a mild hallucinigen and I've seen some people that did say they saw stuff while stoned. Not everyone has the same effect though.

Erinael said:

Hell, marijuana is arguably safer than cigarettes. Arguably.
If you do drugs, then marijuana is the best one.

Only if you eat it. Wether it's cigarettes or pot, if you smoke it you are still ingesting the same thing that causes cancer in smokers

Funny how noone has mentioned caffein as a drug. Coffee makers must have you hooked so bad that you don't even see it, when you drink it you acually feel more tired in the morning unless you get your "bump". All in all though I support the legalization of marijuana, not decriminalization. I feel that in a free society everyone should have the choice to their own vices as long as they accept the punishment for misuse. I feel it would drastically cut down prison costs. Open up new venues for a legal income, and possibly reduce some forms of street crime. There will always be addicts of harder drugs, but with the ability to legally indulge in marijuana and alcohol, and a proper drug education in schools(along with a non-puritan sex ed that really does more harm than good, but that's another story) people will make more positive choices and possibly move us into the 21st century with a clearer vision of advancement. That is just a pipe dream I think though.

 

[Mr.Wonko]

I dislike the fact that marijuana is illegal, but I also can't help but fear what will happen when/if it is legalized. Will huge marijuana farms pop up, covering their crops with the pesticides (and the radioactive elements that go with some of them) that make cigarettes so dangerous? Will it be taxed to an extreme amount?

The fact that, if someone gets caught with marijuana, they go to jail (in Texas, at least, which has harsh possession penalties), I find deplorable. If I'm sitting in my house, listening to music and smoking a bowl, who am I hurting? Pot is not dangerous.

There is an old Bill Hicks routine, and I can't quite remember it exactly, but it was something like: "Ever seen two drunk people get in a fight? Sure. Ever seen two stoned people get in a fight? No, because it is fucking impossible. Here's how it would go. 'Hey buddy!' 'Hey what?' '...hey.' 'oh, hey.'"

 

[Mr.Wonko]

It is a mild hallucinigen and I've seen some people that did say they saw stuff while stoned. Not everyone has the same effect though.

If you had ever smoked pot you would know the answer to this is "no." It may well make you perceive things differently, almost seeing them anew, but it does not dredge up subsonscious artifacts and display them to you. If you smoke some pot, then do some DXM, you will see what I am talking about.

 

[Sneakypants]

Concerned about pesticides? Grown your own. :wink:


To make some corrections with Shaunessy's post:

No Marijuana is NOT a hallucinogen. I have also seen people say they've seen things on pot. They are idiots. Even high on the dankest, you aren't seeing things. You might be imagining things, i.e. your brain comes up with thoughts and ideas that you can get tangled up in. You may think of things you never thought of, and feel almost euphoric, but you're still controlled, with it and driving your thoughts and actions.

Yes, other harmful things exist in the air. Marijuana is of the smallest concern compared to other things that are a regular part of our air.

Yes, cigarettes are worse. Mostly because of the filters and the chemicals within.

Yes, your judgement is impaired compared to a completely sober state. When compared to the state you are in while drunk, let alone wasted on some harder drugs, the detrimental effect to your motor skills is minimal.

Yes, you'd be just as likely to get into an accident driving a car while stoned as you would if you had a couple large cups of coffee or Coke.

No, getting loaded on hard drugs (which has nothing to do with the discussion of marijuana), isn't something to necessarily better yourself. It seems that is looked at from a certain biased and lacking of first hand experience kind of perspective though. Then again, I'm not sure what you do with your time, but who exactly is the judge of whether or not that's good for you, worth while, etc.?



The end of your post is a good read though. You're right about the caffeine. That is more addictive than people realize.

 

[Rahvine]

To make some corrections with Shaunessy's post:

No Marijuana is NOT a hallucinogen. I have also seen people say they've seen things on pot. They are idiots. Even high on the dankest, you aren't seeing things. You might be imagining things, i.e. your brain comes up with thoughts and ideas that you can get tangled up in. You may think of things you never thought of, and feel almost euphoric, but you're still controlled, with it and driving your thoughts and actions.

Now I can make a correction on your post, Marijuana is most assuredly a hallucinogen, look in any textbooks that deal with psychoactive drugs and you will see that this is common knowledge. When grouped into the categories of psychoactive drugs (stimulants, depressants and hallucinogens) Marijuana is set right along with LSD.

I don't really have an oppinion on its legalization, but the excuse of "medicinal use" will be unusable within the next year because a whole batch of medicines aimed to stimulate cannibinoid receptors will be released to the public. After that, then we will see who really needs it for medicinal purposes and who just wanted an excuse to get high.

 

[Kat]

Actually pot "can" be a hallucingen if it's laced with angel dust or something of that sort. But pot by itself is not.

Here's my take on pot. I personally don't smoke it. I did when I was in my teens for a short time, but it never did anything for me but make me wanna sleep and get cotton mouth so bad I just couldn't stand it. Thing is, I know a lot of people who do smoke it, and I've yet to see someone who's a pot smoker get in a brawl, kill someone from driving while high, yada yada. You give this same person a few beers and it's a totally different story.

I've been saying this for years, and still believe it to this day: the only reason pot hasn't already been legalized is because the government can't figure out a way to get the total tax benefits from it. Just my opinion.

 

[Rahvine]

I don't want to get into some stupid argument of "yes it is, no it isn't" But marijuana is a hallucinogen by itself. A mild hallucinogen I'll grant but one nonetheless. Well if you want to be all technical its the THC that is the hallucinogen. But its mild so you don't have a "trip" persay.

Just do a little research on the topic and you will see.

 

[Sneakypants]

To make some corrections with Shaunessy's post:

No Marijuana is NOT a hallucinogen. I have also seen people say they've seen things on pot. They are idiots. Even high on the dankest, you aren't seeing things. You might be imagining things, i.e. your brain comes up with thoughts and ideas that you can get tangled up in. You may think of things you never thought of, and feel almost euphoric, but you're still controlled, with it and driving your thoughts and actions.

Now I can make a correction on your post, Marijuana is most assuredly a hallucinogen, look in any textbooks that deal with psychoactive drugs and you will see that this is common knowledge. When grouped into the categories of psychoactive drugs (stimulants, depressants and hallucinogens) Marijuana is set right along with LSD.

I don't really have an oppinion on its legalization, but the excuse of "medicinal use" will be unusable within the next year because a whole batch of medicines aimed to stimulate cannibinoid receptors will be released to the public. After that, then we will see who really needs it for medicinal purposes and who just wanted an excuse to get high.

Text books are inferior to firsthand experience. Just like street smarts > book smarts. You get places in this world by actually knowing how things work. Why is marijuana NOT to be placed in a group right next to LSD? Anyone who has tried it can tell you. If you have to read a text book to tell you, then it's not even worth discussing with you. It's like trying to teach a mere baby how to drive a forumla 1 car.

Medicinal use will remain a viable "excuse" as you say...
I don't need it for medicinal purposes, but when confronted with the question, I am hard pressed to find a REAL reason why it shouldn't be legal and think, "Why not?!?!"

 

[Erinael]

Something that may be pertinet to the topic if all we're talking about is "decrminialization" that I found while looking for what the penalties for marijuana is.

www.norml.org on minnesota marijuana laws

Decriminalization: The state has decriminalized marijuana to some degree. Typically, decriminalization means no prison time or criminal record for first-time possession of a small amount for personal consumption. The conduct is treated like a minor traffic violation.

Yes, I know there's a huge difference between "hard drugs" and marijuana. Alcohol could probably be argued to be worse to be high on, I doubt anyone's beat their wife while high on pot atleast. My point is that you're still using a drug and you're still getting high. It was hyperbole. My apologies.

Consider ecstasy for your boyfriend because he can't get it up infront of your butt-ass ugly face anymore

Ah, that almost made my day, bud. Thank ya.

It goes back to being responsible for your actions.

Now this is quite true. It's just such a shame that so many people think they can avoid the consequences of their actions.

Really, why isn't marijuana legal when alcohol is. I mean, we've all laughed at the drunk guy pissing on the cop car. And being drunk is just being high on alchohol really.

But then again it isn't our god given right to smoke pot like it is to get drunk and beat our wives.

 

[Sneakypants]

Alcohol could probably be argued to be worse to be high on, I doubt anyone's beat their wife while high on pot atleast.

Could be though...Maybe the wife was telling the pothead he's crazy for smoking because of something she saw in a text book. :lol: :lol:

 

[Zimzum]

What I would like to do is, take everyone from the senate and house of representatives, hell even the president too. Lock them up in a room and have them atleast TRY it once. Just once, and see if these people still have the same theroy on it.

It could be sold and packaged just like cigarettes. I know states like NH and VA have state run liquar stores. It could be sold in places like that or even in local pharmacies or the front desk of a police station. There's many ways to control the sale of it. Alcohol is not supposed to be sold to anyone under 21. But if someone underage really wants to drink or smoke they will find a way to get a hold of it. I know when i was in high school it was easier to get a bag of pot then a pack of cigarettes.

The government could never have a 100% tax control over it as some people would just grow it on there own. Cigarettes are taxed, yet there is no penilty for anyone that grows there own. But due to the time and equipment needed it would simbly be easier for the average person to buy it.

 

[Erinael]

What I would like to do is, take everyone from the senate and house of representatives, hell even the president too. Lock them up in a room and have them atleast TRY it once. Just once, and see if these people still have the same theroy on it.

"I tried it once but never inhaled"? :lol: Really, I wonder how many "politicians" haven't tried it.

But they're a bunch of hypcrits and liars 8)

 

[Rinoah]

Here's my question to all of you who don't like cigarettes. Or say that smokers are ruining your health. How many of you own/or drive a gas powered vehicle? Everyday people get into their cars and pollute the air many times over then still have to nerve to tell me that smoking my cigarette is killing people.

Now on to pot.

Aerander said:

* It does not impair your judgement as much as any other drug. Yes, your reflexes are jacked up, and your attention span is nil to none, so driving on it is not a good idea.

How is that not imparing your judgment? What about cocain where it speeds up preception? Would it be ok to drive coked out then?

Dowzer said:

These hallucinogens are not for 'enjoying the environment around you & to have a good party'. Mushrooms, LSD, Peyote/Mescaline are not to be fucked with. Whenever I've used these drugs with my friends, we've been well prepared for any expected events. Hallucinogens are used to better yourself and your mind. Throughout my experiences, they give you a chance to see yourself from a 3rd persons view. More or less, you'll sit like a vegetable for 8 hours - contemplating your existance -- which is something a lot of people should do.

How is getting all wacked out on LSD/Mushrooms/Cactus bettering yourself? Oh and you forgot about licking certain toads.

Darkdante said:

Far as I know you don't hallucinate on mariuana

It is a mild hallucinigen and I've seen some people that did say they saw stuff while stoned. Not everyone has the same effect though.

Erinael said:

Hell, marijuana is arguably safer than cigarettes. Arguably.
If you do drugs, then marijuana is the best one.

Only if you eat it. Wether it's cigarettes or pot, if you smoke it you are still ingesting the same thing that causes cancer in smokers

Funny how noone has mentioned caffein as a drug. Coffee makers must have you hooked so bad that you don't even see it, when you drink it you acually feel more tired in the morning unless you get your "bump". All in all though I support the legalization of marijuana, not decriminalization. I feel that in a free society everyone should have the choice to their own vices as long as they accept the punishment for misuse. I feel it would drastically cut down prison costs. Open up new venues for a legal income, and possibly reduce some forms of street crime. There will always be addicts of harder drugs, but with the ability to legally indulge in marijuana and alcohol, and a proper drug education in schools(along with a non-puritan sex ed that really does more harm than good, but that's another story) people will make more positive choices and possibly move us into the 21st century with a clearer vision of advancement. That is just a pipe dream I think though.

How many people drive a car indoors and put peoples faces only a few feet from the exhaust? this seems like a pretty supid point to make to me...sure petrol (or diesel) fumes are going to be worse than cigarette smoke but that would be due to the quantity of the fume mostly i would imagine, instead of the chemicals actually being worse than those in cigarettes.

Btw i am pretty sure alcohol is also classified as a halucinagen (sp?)...so i wouldn't put too much faith in what a book says.

Caffiene is such an accepted drug its no wonder it doesn't get mentioned...you don't mention asprin do you? like 1g or something of asprin could kill you yet that wasn't mentioned either.

Also part of the reason alcohol is legal is due to its history. Basically weak beer used to be drank instead of water because the ethanol kills all the bacteria etc in the beer and its safe to drink. I have heard people theorise this is why white people tend to be able to drink more than asians...but meh i can't really comment on that. Anyway ethanol (or alcohol if you prefer) is acceptable because not only do we have a long history with it but it used to (and still is) viewed as healthy in small quantities.

I don't get why you are arguing over pot legalisation when your drinking age is so high >.>...only holiday i have been on when i had to GIVE UP the ability to drink.

 

[Aerandir]

Aerander said:

* It does not impair your judgement as much as any other drug. Yes, your reflexes are jacked up, and your attention span is nil to none, so driving on it is not a good idea.

How is that not imparing your judgment? What about cocain where it speeds up preception? Would it be ok to drive coked out then?

I said it does not impair it AS much. I've been on nearly every drug multiple times, and I have been a pot smoker for 13 years. I can say through first hand experience that Mrs. Soccer Mom would much rather me be high on pot, than any other drug when cruising beside her. Yes, she would prefer for me not to be on any drugs at all, but that isn't what we are talking about.

I don't get why you are arguing over pot legalisation when your drinking age is so high >.>...only holiday i have been on when i had to GIVE UP the ability to drink.

It is called debating, not arguing. I think our drinking age just might have to do with people wanting to legalize pot. I would imagine it would have the same age limitations however. I highly doubt it be sold to 18 year olds like cigs are.

I don't think anyone has mentioned this, but one thing that sucks about pot is it can kill your motivation to do.... well anything that isn't fun. I know when I go sober for a week or two, I end up being a hell of a lot more productive around the house. When I'm high I just want to either play FFXI, watch movie, listen to music, read a book, and last but not least, screw.

 

[Rinoah]

Aerander said:

* It does not impair your judgement as much as any other drug. Yes, your reflexes are jacked up, and your attention span is nil to none, so driving on it is not a good idea.

How is that not imparing your judgment? What about cocain where it speeds up preception? Would it be ok to drive coked out then?

I said it does not impair it AS much. I've been on nearly every drug multiple times, and I have been a pot smoker for 13 years. I can say through first hand experience that Mrs. Soccer Mom would much rather me be high on pot, than any other drug when cruising beside her. Yea, yeah, she would prefer for me not to be on any drugs at all, but that isn't what we are talking about.

I don't get why you are arguing over pot legalisation when your drinking age is so high >.>...only holiday i have been on when i had to GIVE UP the ability to drink.

It is called debating, not arguing. I think our drinking age just might have to do with people wanting to legalize pot. I would imagine it would have the same age limitations however. I highly doubt it be sold to 18 year olds like cigs are.

I don't think anyone has mentioned this, but one thing that sucks about pot is it can kill your motivation to do.... well anything that isn't fun. I know when I go sober for a week or two, I end up being a hell of a lot more productive around the house. When I'm high I just want to either play FFXI, watch movie, listen to music, read a book, and last but not least, screw.

Pfft with no mediator its arguing.

Wait so cigs and alcohol which both damage you more than other people are 18 and 21 yet driving a car where you can run someone over or hit another car and kill someone else is only 15!? what kinda logic is that?

And i should never smoke pot then as i am in a state if permenant lethargy.