Michael J. Fox

[decidence]

Yea the debt is to the hoes for payin all their military bills. However you won't ever see that money in your lifetime... and the government knows that.

 

[Archmage]

Well it's illegal to use the data found from immoral research methods - a point of much debate, like for example the data the Nazis found from experimenting on Jews in concentration camp. If you feel that abortion is immoral then you think that the data gained from research on aborted feti is immoral to use.

So medical students shouldn't learn from the bodies of people who were murdered because murder is immoral, even if studying someone who died from something like a gunshot wound helps understand the damage the projectile does better and may allow someone who suffers a similar wound to be saved next time?

What about harvesting organs from victims of crimes? They're only dead because of an immoral act, so anyone who could be helped via organ transplant from them should be told "Sorry, TS, you can't benefit from an immoral act"?

Regardless of what you consider immoral or not in regards to abortion the fact of the matter is that the abortion has already occured, you have a fetus that will otherwise be disposed of as "biological waste", shouldn't some good come of what remains?

 

[Fellina]

The difference is that adults have the cognitive ability to choose to donate their bodies to research. Organ donors, cadavers for medical testing/dissection, all have been donated by consenting adults who understood what was going on when they signed the dotted line. How they died is moot- it's the choices they made while living that makes their donations moral.

I feel that using embryos and aborted fetuses in research is immoral because they weren't given the choice to be donated. The whole argument comes down to when you believe those cells cease to be property and become and individual with their own rights and freedoms. I believe it should be at conception. Many people disagree with me. Which is their right to do.

The real issue, for me, is that I don't want my tax dollars to support the harvesting of embryos for research. If someone wants to privately fund a study using discarded embryos, I may disagree with it morally, but as long as it's not my money they are using to pay for it, then they have the right to research all they want. Add to this the fact that all the data I've seen on stem cell research indicates that the greatest potential is in adult stem cells, and not embryos. People seem to think that embryos are the only place stems cells are found, and that's flat out wrong. You have stem cells in your body right now. There are stem cells in umbilical cord blood. And yes, there are stem cells in embryos. Of the three, the greatest breakthroughs have been made with adult cells. The least have been made with embryos. You can read all about it here.

 

[decidence]

Interesting article, however I personally don't care where the Stem Cells come from, the research needs to be done in my opinion. Whether is't embryo's that will be thrown in the trash or adults condoning their own Stem Cells being removed.

 

[Raesvelg]

Interesting article, however I personally don't care where the Stem Cells come from, the research needs to be done in my opinion. Whether is't embryo's that will be thrown in the trash or adults condoning their own Stem Cells being removed.

Others, however, DO care, which is why we find ourselves in this particular debate. Personally, the prospect of using fetal stem cells doesn't bother me in the slightest, I'm also pro-Abortion (not pro-choice, screw that, I wanna abort more babies) and considered slightly amoral by most folks.

That doesn't mean I'm right, of course.

 

[Chasym]

i saw a video biography of MJF recently, and they stated in it that he does go off his meds during some of his cases and speeches, he said he does it so they can see what the disease really does to people.
Yeah it would be better if he took the meds, but it would feel alot better to live with a cure where you dont have to pop pills everyday just to try and live normally. you also gotta think that im sure its not easy for him to come out and publically display himself this way, it takes alot of courage to show your weakness. Showing people what a disease does to people in an attempt that in some hope someday he will, or someone else will be able to wake up one day and not need to take meds to escape the disease is all a worthy reason of showing the true effects.
as someone said earlier on, if i had the disease i would do it too.
I respect MJF more than any other known person out there, always have. He seems to be the most down to earth, go for the goal person i can think of.

im also not against stemcell.

 

[Fellina]

Interesting article, however I personally don't care where the Stem Cells come from, the research needs to be done in my opinion. Whether is't embryo's that will be thrown in the trash or adults condoning their own Stem Cells being removed.

I agree the research needs to be done; and in fact it is being done. But if the studies done so far indicate that we have as good or a better chance of finding cures using adult stem cells, then why the hell should the government take my tax money and use it to harvest embryos? I'm not against stem cell research. I'm just against government-funded research using unethical (to me) methods; especially when there are alternatives that are more promising.

 

[Westyle]

Mandatory Abortion Laws.

I don't see why you people keep making these annoying things. Sure they're cute for the first 3 years but then they're a great annoyance over the next 15.

 

[Stouter]

I agree the research needs to be done; and in fact it is being done. But if the studies done so far indicate that we have as good or a better chance of finding cures using adult stem cells, then why the hell should the government take my tax money and use it to harvest embryos? I'm not against stem cell research. I'm just against government-funded research using unethical (to me) methods; especially when there are alternatives that are more promising.

If you find using embryos that were deemed unfit for implantation at a fertility clinic to be immoral, what would your stance of fertility clinics in general be?

They put sperm and egg together (playing god by creating life you could say) and they let more than half of the embryos (which are people in the opinion of anti-abortionists) die. Several times more embryos die at fertility clinics than abortion clinics, why is there nobody outside them holding up signs with pictures of dead fetuses on them?

If it's immoral, there should be a law against it. Some jews would say eating pork is immoral, so is it right for the government for give subsidies to hog farmers?

 

[Fellina]

Morality for the most part is a matter of perspective and opinion. Some morals are more widely accepted than others. I don't want to go into my own personal moral code too much for fear of derailing the thread, but to me individual freedom and choice is paramount. I don't personally agree with abortion or fertility clinics- I feel adoption for both parties would be a better option. But I'm sure as hell not going to infringe on the rights of other people to choose what to do with their life -born or unborn-, and I certainly don't want my government to do it for me either.

If this legislation doesn't pass, it won't make stem cell research illegal. Thats the last thing I would want. All it would do is prevent embryos from being cloned to create new lines of stem cells using government funding. I just want the government to stay the fuck out of the issue altogether. There is plenty of funding for this research in the private sector. There are plenty of breakthroughs being made in the private sector. Let these people work without Uncle Sam getting all up in their business is all I ask.

 

[Trippyhippy]

I agree the research needs to be done; and in fact it is being done. But if the studies done so far indicate that we have as good or a better chance of finding cures using adult stem cells, then why the hell should the government take my tax money and use it to harvest embryos? I'm not against stem cell research. I'm just against government-funded research using unethical (to me) methods; especially when there are alternatives that are more promising.

I think it's unethical to not try using every method possible.

My grandmother has Parkinsons Disease, and I would love to see a cure for it developed in her life.

You feel your ethics are more important because they are based on faith. I feel mine are more important because they are based on logic.

So what wins, faith or logic?

 

[Farys]

I don't think it all comes down to a question of logic vs faith. You can have both.

You care for your grandmother because of love and love is an act of faith in its own.

In my opinion, the debate is more about what is most important to us : to cure disease people neglecting the idea maybe fetuses have a "soul" or rights or to preserve those fetuses not knowing if they have soul or rights.

The same goes with the right to abort. I prefer medical surveillance over abortion than some poor girl using his mom's needle to kill her fetus (and herself in the process).

 

[Trippyhippy]

I don't think it all comes down to a question of logic vs faith. You can have both.

Faith is a belief that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence. So by definition, you can not have both. Of course, that is just one definition from http://www.thefreedictionary.com

You care for your grandmother because of love and love is an act of faith in its own.

I care for my Grandmother because she has earned my trust. Faith is no more than trust that has not been earned.

In my opinion, the debate is more about what is most important to us : to cure disease people neglecting the idea maybe fetuses have a "soul" or rights or to preserve those fetuses not knowing if they have soul or rights.

The same goes with the right to abort. I prefer medical surveillance over abortion than some poor girl using his mom's needle to kill her fetus (and herself in the process).

So it's wrong to not help in every way possible, but it may be wrong to help in the particular way that is stem cell research from a fetus.

Basiclly, that comes down to it being the lesser of two evils.

 

[Raesvelg]

It's more a question of opposing ethical views than "faith vs logic". Yes, faith can play into what you percieve to be ethical behavior, but not necessarily. It's entirely possible to be an atheist and be pro-life, simply choosing to define the beginning of human life as the moment of conception rather than picking an arbitrary point during gestation. Note that we frequently prosecute people for the murder of unborn children, so long as the death was not with the consent of the mother.

See the problem there?

So for those who view it as unethical to harvest embryos (or murder children, in another view), then your "logic" is highly flawed, whether they're religious or not.

 

[Firestreak]

It's a question of individual rights to me. If you consider it immoral to eat pork and I don't, I still have the right because it doesn't affect anyone but myself. The argument with abortion is that by performing abortion you take away the right to live of a human fetus. Not sure when exactly I'd say the fetus attains the status that I'd say it should have that right. If you think conception then logically the idea that it's alright to use the fetus for spare parts because "you" don't find it immoral kind of seems strange. What if I dont' find it immoral to use you for spare parts when you go to the hospital for a checkup and several people need organ transplants?

Not saying I'm totally against stem-cell research, just presenting the argument.