MND vs INT???

[marstonia]

Howdy All!

I was wondering...

Could someone please explain to me the difference between MND and INT?
(or point me to an online reference)

THANKS!:
biggrin:

 

[Sarion]

MND = White Magic
INT = Black Magic

Rumor, not sure, MND = defense vs ALL magic
OR
MND = defense vs white
INT = defense vs dark
I do not believe the latter ;p

 

[Bajaratt]

MND refers to white magic, INT to black magic. MND also deals with magic defense.

 

[metachronism]

As far as I'm aware, mnd does not do anything with relation to black magic--conversely, int does nothing for white magic. This can easily be demonstrated by:

nuke->raise int->same nuke->higher damage
nuke->lower mob int (burn)->same nuke->higher damage

I believe the same can be said with mnd and spells like banish:

banish->raise mnd->banish->higher damage
banish->shock->banish->higher damage (haven't confirmed this one)

 

[Prothall]

I tried using those elemental debuffs to do more damage. Not worth it IMO.

 

[Lavi]

MND effects WHM based spells and INT BLM based spells. A BLM would be wise to load up on INT for nuking and a WHM would benefit from extra mind although after a certain extent, WHMs ignore +MND gear and go directly for +MP. RDM are the middle of the road and use both INT and MND to enhance the potency of their enfeebles. Again, if a WHM can use the enfeeble, add MND, if BLM can then get more INT.

Now as for magic resistance, I have found that INT improves resisting nuke damage in a similar fashing to INT increasing damage on nukes. If I add a little INT, I will take less damage from nukes and increase the damage of my BLM nukes. However, it has been my experience (although I'm not positive) that MND does help increase resistance, but not in the same fashion as INT. INT will reduce the damage only a few points while MND will cause the resists that you see when nuking a mob (1/2 damage, 1/4, 1/8, etc.).

 

[Lavi]

I tried using those elemental debuffs to do more damage. Not worth it IMO.

Elemental debuffs are amazing when used properly. I have seen a NIN having trouble straight tanking Amikiri even with bard evasion songs but with the elemental debuffs, was able to much more noticeably as well as land more hits too.

The usefullness of elemental debuffs depends on your party setup, player's gear, along with many other factors. I usually wait a single fight to determine what debuffs I will use. If I think the NIN can't hold shadows, I use rasp (-DEX). Melee aren't hitting accurately enough for me, I will use frost (-AGI). The party is melee heavy and they have very good accuracy? Choke (-VIT). Party is mage heavy or I am doing the bulk of the damage? Burn (-INT). You should also note that the elemental debuffs do not all stack. Burn (fire based) and Drown (water based) do not stack, but Burn and Choke (wind based) do. So two conflicting elements cannot be cast on the same mob and a total of 3 elemental debuffs can be cast on a mob at one time (excluding dia and bio which I am not sure if they are considered an elemental debuff).


Note: I would not suggest using burn in a manaburn party as sometimes the mobs need to be slept and using a DoT can be very fatal plus you are wasting time casting one spell when you should be using casting a nuke.

 

[Blackchaoshero]

ok... to fully explain int.. here's how... Elemental Spell Damage work!

Elemental_Spell_Damage = [ (IDF * Spell_Multiplier) + SDC ] * Magic_Attack_Bonus * Day_Weather_Modifier

IDF = Int Difference factor = INTcaster - INTenemy
SDC = Spell Damage Constant these can be found at...
http://www.iluvitar.com/sections/ffxi/ -the source of this calculation.

IDF is how int affects elemental magic.

I have reason to believe though no calculations to be more than vague that black magic enfeebles is a something like Caster int + skill level vs enemy int and Mind(magic defense) but that's just guesswork. i know giving the mob burn(lowers int) seems to reliably make black magic enfeebles stick more.


MND... well... ya, baj is a whm... listen to him

 

[Blackchaoshero]

Elemental debuffs are amazing when used properly. I have seen a NIN having trouble straight tanking Amikiri even with bard evasion songs but with the elemental debuffs, was able to much more noticeably as well as land more hits too.

The usefullness of elemental debuffs depends on your party setup, player's gear, along with many other factors. I usually wait a single fight to determine what debuffs I will use. If I think the NIN can't hold shadows, I use rasp (-DEX). Melee aren't hitting accurately enough for me, I will use frost (-AGI). The party is melee heavy and they have very good accuracy? Choke (-VIT). Party is mage heavy or I am doing the bulk of the damage? Burn (-INT). You should also note that the elemental debuffs do not all stack. Burn (fire based) and Drown (water based) do not stack, but Burn and Choke (wind based) do. So two conflicting elements cannot be cast on the same mob and a total of 3 elemental debuffs can be cast on a mob at one time (excluding dia and bio which I am not sure if they are considered an elemental debuff).


Note: I would not suggest using burn in a manaburn party as sometimes the mobs need to be slept and using a DoT can be very fatal plus you are wasting time casting one spell when you should be using casting a nuke.

beat me to the punch but hell, i'll post twice in a row....

1. Burn (fire, -Int) Choke (air -Vit) Shock (lightning -Mnd) stack
2. Frost (ice -Agi) Rasp (earth -Dex) Drown (water -Str)
Bio and dia are not elemental debuffs... the elemental debuffs are called that because they use "Elemental magic" as their skill.

Using DoT's in a manaburn really won't be done because the whole concept is it dies in one volley or is close enough that... something fast like drain(for maximum DMG/MP efficiency) will finish it.

 

[Vilurum]

Whether you call Bio and Dia "elemental debuffs" or not, despite that they work just like them (decrease to an enemy statistic plus damage over time), they still don't stack.

Bio II overwrites everything but itself. Dia II overwrites everything but itself and Bio II. Bio overwrites Dia, and Dia overwrites nothing. (Bio II > Dia II > Bio > Dia, in other words.)

You do not get messages from such overwritings (and barring elemental immunity, the spells will always "work" in the sense of doing their initial 0-or-very-low damage, so you won't get resists either), but you can easily go out and test them either a. in ballista, b. by finding some RDM mob that will use both on you and looking at your status icons, c. by using both on some mob (wimpy enough that it won't hurt you much, strong enough to live out the damage over time until something wears) and observing which wear-off message you do and do *not* get.

Not to mention the presence (or absence, say, due to being replaced with Bio) of Dia on a mob can be determined with the check command, if it changes the mob from high defense to normal defense, or normal defense to low defense.

 

[Uzor]

MND increase the effectivness of enfeebles, raises accruacy of them slightly, increases potency of Stoneskin (it caps at 350 though), and increases potency of cures. Whether or not it helps you resist nukes is not certain.

INT raises the damage of nukes, raises accuracy of them slightly, and helps you reduce damage taken by INT based spells. It also raises potency and accuracy of INT based enfeebles.

That's the difference in a nutshell.

 

[marstonia]

Thanks All for responding

Thanks everybody that really cleared things up.
Special props go to Blackchaoshero for an awesome site...there's a lot of great information there laid out in a no-nonsense sort of way.
THANKS!
artytime:

 

[Elemmire]

we should really just sticky topics like these that get asked a lot x.x

 

[Blackchaoshero]

Thanks everybody that really cleared things up.
Special props go to Blackchaoshero for an awesome site...there's a lot of great information there laid out in a no-nonsense sort of way.
THANKS!

np ^^

we should really just sticky topics like these that get asked a lot x.x

if we stickied all the topics like that we'd have to go to the third page of every forum to see a new thread.

 

[Elemmire]

np ^^


if we stickied all the topics like that we'd have to go to the third page of every forum to see a new thread.

then maybe we should have some sort of way to seek out threads or posts by giving a phrase describing the thread or maybe a phrase found in the thread... hmm or maybe we could some how look up things by users.. oh what would this magical function be though?

 

[Blackchaoshero]

a Sticky-worthy posts section all of it's own?

 

[Vilurum]

Search forums -> MND

"Sorry - no matches. Please try some different terms."

I'm guessing it has a minimum letter requirement. Which does, quite tragically, negate that idea. (Not to mention MND and INT can be referred to in lots of places, without explaining what they actually do. So you'd get quite a lot of unhelpful results even if it did work.)

 

[Winklewil]

INT raises the damage of nukes, raises accuracy of them slightly, and helps you reduce damage taken by INT based spells. It also raises potency and accuracy of INT based enfeebles.

This isn't quite true. It's a common belief, I know, even among very experienced people. This might be due, in part, to the fact that there is a VERY fringe group of people that still maintain that INT plays a minimal part in accuracy ... there's kind of still a controversy about it. Even they will confess, however, that if it's true, it's such a piddly difference it's hardly worth mentioning.

Nevertheless, as is evident from extensive testing by both the red mage and black mage community at Allakhazam, Somepage, KillingIfrit, and others, I'd say that it's almost completely certain by now that neither INT nor MND have any effect whatsoever on magic accuracy. That is to say, they won't help with resists. The only thing they have an effect on is potency.

The only factors that come into play for elemental magic (nukes) accuracy:

1) Your elemental magic skill.
2) Elemental resistances in the mob.
3) Elemental bonuses due to day/weather.

That's it. INT is damage, and damage alone.



MND, likewise, has no effect on enfeebling accuracy. It has an effect on enfeebling potency. This means boosting your MND while casting Paralyze won't help with your resist rate, but the added MND will make the effect proc more often once it does land. To help with resists, you've got to boost enfeebling skill and do what you can to get around ice resistances ... wear an Ice Staff, burst it, etc...

 

[Blackchaoshero]

This isn't quite true. It's a common belief, I know, even among very experienced people. This might be due, in part, to the fact that there is a VERY fringe group of people that still maintain that INT plays a minimal part in accuracy ... there's kind of still a controversy about it. Even they will confess, however, that if it's true, it's such a piddly difference it's hardly worth mentioning.

Nevertheless, as is evident from extensive testing by both the red mage and black mage community at Allakhazam, Somepage, KillingIfrit, and others, I'd say that it's almost completely certain by now that neither INT nor MND have any effect whatsoever on magic accuracy. That is to say, they won't help with resists. The only thing they have an effect on is potency.

The only factors that come into play for elemental magic (nukes) accuracy:

1) Your elemental magic skill.
2) Elemental resistances in the mob.
3) Elemental bonuses due to day/weather.

That's it. INT is damage, and damage alone.



MND, likewise, has no effect on enfeebling accuracy. It has an effect on enfeebling potency. This means boosting your MND while casting Paralyze won't help with your resist rate, but the added MND will make the effect proc more often once it does land. To help with resists, you've got to boost enfeebling skill and do what you can to get around ice resistances ... wear an Ice Staff, burst it, etc...

I've proved conclusively with a parser i get resisted less with higher int.

 

[pchan]

The only factors that come into play for elemental magic (nukes) accuracy:

1) Your elemental magic skill.
2) Elemental resistances in the mob.
3) Elemental bonuses due to day/weather.

you forget one thing that is stronger than magic skill : magic accuracy, e.g. elemental staff, elemental seal and various gear.