Haste and Dual wield reduction are 2 totally different things. And I'm curious where you got this caps at 95% thing. Were you able to reach that and prove this? Otherwise like all others have been telling me to do, show me proof. So far I have been showing proof backing up my statements. Please before people start posting more of this stuff, post proof, unless there is some unwritten rule where I am the only one that has to do this. Even if this were true have your 2 BRDs sing 2xMarch, Minuet 4 and Blade Madrigal. You still achieve a decent accuracy rating, attain an even higher swing rate and hit like a truck. If I were partying with 2Handers that don't need Madrigal at all and can still eat attack food without making their accuracy suffer than yes, I would eat sushi. Shit is SITUATIONAL.
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If you are being this much of a stickler for a 2x brd party, then yes, chances are you could get away with meat, but at the loss of a second march song which i didn't even think was debatable, but whatev.
In other news, that second bard is pretty much a waste of a party slot unless your first bard sucks. There were only a few brds i was willing to party with on my War. My Drk was lucky to have 1 bard much less two. Its all a matter of perspective i suppose.
Also, friends don't let friends merit in the mire.
In other news, that second bard is pretty much a waste of a party slot unless your first bard sucks. There were only a few brds i was willing to party with on my War. My Drk was lucky to have 1 bard much less two. Its all a matter of perspective i suppose.
Also, friends don't let friends merit in the mire.
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Not like it matters as I could use club main if i wanted...but I rarely if ever use an axe anymore. I used PCC when using Axe, now with Torque + Perdu Hangar, I have a 225+236 base delay...
If sword were EVER an issue, I wouldn't have had not only the highest dmg in any party where I didn't first voke, but also the highest accuracy.
Plain and simple, if you did happen to cap out at 25k/hour with a dual bard setup eating meat, you would have done monumentally better had you used the proper song + Food combination.
Neisan's point was that the accuracy numbers you're trying to achieve with your mathematic theory are the ACTUAL accuracy numbers I'm achieving eating sushi with a decidedly higher 'Accuracy' quotient than you. Subtract 7 from the accuracy total if you want for Ridill, my 'accuracy number' is still decidedly above yours. And guess what, With that accuracy number, the Ridill still attacks 2-3 times. With your wikipedia math, you could also surpass 100% accuracy, which guess what folks, isn't possible. What you're forgetting the main point of this discussion was, is that the PT SETUP YOU MENTIONED USING THE SONGS/FOOD YOU MENTIONED COULD NOT ACHIEVE 25K/HOUR. I can and have many times, with posts so old they're not even searchable on the boards anymore.
If you want to show me something, have someone parse your party. While parsing your party, have them also use the exp/hour plugin. Then have them Screenshot it. Then post it here. I don't know what you're trying to prove by giving people shitty information, and arguing with people who have been consistently achieving the exp/hour you 'capped' at (another lol) since the expansion came out. So maybe instead of arguing with people who know, that you're right in the most ridiculous of circumstances, say thank you that we took the time to prove it to you that your wrong, change your game, and actually learn what a real consistant merit cannon is all about.
If sword were EVER an issue, I wouldn't have had not only the highest dmg in any party where I didn't first voke, but also the highest accuracy.
Plain and simple, if you did happen to cap out at 25k/hour with a dual bard setup eating meat, you would have done monumentally better had you used the proper song + Food combination.
Neisan's point was that the accuracy numbers you're trying to achieve with your mathematic theory are the ACTUAL accuracy numbers I'm achieving eating sushi with a decidedly higher 'Accuracy' quotient than you. Subtract 7 from the accuracy total if you want for Ridill, my 'accuracy number' is still decidedly above yours. And guess what, With that accuracy number, the Ridill still attacks 2-3 times. With your wikipedia math, you could also surpass 100% accuracy, which guess what folks, isn't possible. What you're forgetting the main point of this discussion was, is that the PT SETUP YOU MENTIONED USING THE SONGS/FOOD YOU MENTIONED COULD NOT ACHIEVE 25K/HOUR. I can and have many times, with posts so old they're not even searchable on the boards anymore.
If you want to show me something, have someone parse your party. While parsing your party, have them also use the exp/hour plugin. Then have them Screenshot it. Then post it here. I don't know what you're trying to prove by giving people shitty information, and arguing with people who have been consistently achieving the exp/hour you 'capped' at (another lol) since the expansion came out. So maybe instead of arguing with people who know, that you're right in the most ridiculous of circumstances, say thank you that we took the time to prove it to you that your wrong, change your game, and actually learn what a real consistant merit cannon is all about.
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You're basing your opinions on mobs that are a joke to fight, and aren't indicative of the good camps. I didn't say that it was all of your problem, only part of it. If you're going to try to base your results on fighting pussy mobs like Colbiri and Imps and try to compare that to fighting Mamool's, then you're just stupid. The mire sucks ass for merits, the ONLY time you can get remotely good exp is when it's empty or when you're lucky enough that the other parties are too stupid to go for the imps. Even then, Mamool will net you another 10k/hour easy.
First off, I never said 2 bards was bad, only that you are depending on that second bard to cover up your failings. If you can't do with 1 bard what you can do with 2 in an exp party, then it is a problem with YOU, not the setup. I've done 2x bard before, pulled in the same amount of exp as with a single bard party, it was a nice change of pace, but nothing remotely groundbreaking.
Kirin burning also uses 3 bards, not 2; of course you'd do two minuets, madrigals and marches with that setup. That also has absolutely nothing to do with what you would do for exp.
Apparently you're the only one doing selective reading. I already addressed the numbers you were using from lolwiki; you're using theoretical numbers and treating them like they're gospel when in practice they're much different. That's why Vorpal Blade, despite being much better than Rampage on paper, is a weaker weapon skill.
Posting a theoretical formula(just a reminder, that forumla IS still a theory since we don't know the exact one SE used in the game) is a far cry short of posting actual results, which Jamal has already done and they proved you wrong. Since we're talking about practice, not theory, you could post all the formula's you want and they wouldn't mean a thing since you're not taking actual results into account.
In short, stop talking about things you know nothing about and are only guessing at. Learn to listen to those who are doing it and have been doing it for a long time, they do know more than you.
On the rare occasions I have the time to merit, I always party with some of the best players on the server; because they know how to get good exp and they want to get good exp. They all use sushi for those merits, even with 2 bards; hitting for 5 less damage per hit but hitting 5% more often generates much better damage over time than the other way around.
But for their gear, they're always using as much haste gear as they can get, except for the monks who usually wear usukane or dune boots; but everyone else is wearing all the haste they can find. That's why we get that 30k/hour, and unlike you, we're not guessing about that number.
And you'd hit noticeably less than if you used sushi with the second minuet. There's a reason 2x minuet/march is the standard for 2x bard parties, because it works the best. Stop thinking you can reinvent the wheel by pulling arguments out of your ass.
So now you only want to look to when you have a second bard to make up for your shortcomings. Hell, why not only look to a 3x bard party where you can get all three songs on while you're at it.
Back to the original topic, even if you're getting the same accuracy with your setup(you're not, but let's just suppose), then you would STILL gain more benefit from wearing Genbu's Kabuto for a weapon skill than Optical hat, because accuracy would be much less of an issue.
Yes Jamal I admit your WAR is more leet than mine. But unlike some, camping DA for up to 3 hours at a time while doing absolutely nothing wasn't my idea of fun in this game. I have stepped foot into the Aery once to see what it was like and that will mostly likely be the last time.
But highest accuracy in any party? I guess you must have accuracy coming out of your ass since not even 2 handers with A+ skills can keep up with you according to your magical numbers.
Wait what? When was this the main arguement? This all started cause I asked what someone used for food, attack or sushi. And you kept going on about how I had no clue what I was talking about and that I shouldn't even think about suggesting using attack food on Mamools. Neisan helped me prove otherwise.
Serious question here. If my party capping at 25k is so lol what have you capped at? No I know you will not lie even though you will have no numbers to prove you are right. Of course if I say something I am automatically wrong. You have mountains of information proving I am, in fact wrong, unless of course I agree with you. Where was this info proving me wrong again? But yea, seriously, what have you capped at? And what uber setup did you use?
Again I will say it...selective reading anyone? I mention the Mire ONCE and all of a sudden you say I'm basing all my opinions on some stupid Imps. I don't even need a BRD to eat attack food there. Not once did I ever mention fighting Colibri either. Again I will say it...SELECTIVE READING ANYONE?
My tests that I used were based on Mamools. If you read the entire thread you would of noticed this. Selective reading anyone?
Bajarratts awesome party would be singing 2xMinuet and 2xMarch while eating sushi.
My WAR with Sushi - 420.325 accuracy w/o Aggressor
With Minuetx2 - 114 attack
Marchx2 + Haste - 30% (would be 35% but my WAR already has 20% in gear and Haste caps at 50%)
My crappy party would have BRDs singing Madrigalx2 Minuetx1 and Marchx1
My WAR with Madrigalx2 - 425 accuracy w/o Aggressor
With Minuet IV and bonus from Hedgehog Pie - 156 attack
Marchx1 and Haste - 26%
So what shortcomings again? According to these FACTUAL numbers I have 4 more accuracy in the 2nd set and 42 more attack. I will have 4% less haste but is 4 accuracy and 42 attack worth 4% haste? If it is we all might as well start buying Blitz rings lol. I did not pull these numbers from Wiki. These are actual numbers.
Now lets say I really wanna put up big numbers. Let's see what numbers I can come up with using Red Curry as food.
My WAR with Madrigalx2 - 420 accuracy w/o Aggressor
With Minuet IV and bonus from Red Curry - 216 attack
Marchx1 and Haste - 26%
If I use Red Curry I will have 112 more attack than in your uber setup and the exact same accuracy...
Now you can get even more xp than your 30k an hour parties! But of course no one questions Baja when he states he gets 30k an hour. Go figure.
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Your entire post about the Mamool's was pulled from Wiki's formula's, you gave no information on direct party experience other than those mire/colbiri parties. It's not selective reading when the only direct example is the one being referenced. What you're doing is selective reading though, because you're completely ignoring other parts of the same post so that you can "selectively read" something you can try to bullshit your way through. You're still completely ignoring how even if you're right, you're only proving how you were wrong to begin with; that Genbu's Kabuto is a better option for weapon skills since you don't need the accuracy.
Then you need to get much better gear if Sushi is only giving you 40 accuracy. Hell, I'm betting the attack wouldn't be as big of a difference if your gear improved either.
And you're still depending on that second bard so that you're not gimping yourself by eating meat. That dependency is the major flaw in your position. Yeah, you can do ANYTHING with any gear if you have enough bards to carry you through; that doesn't mean that it's a smart option.
Edit: the other thing you're not considering is that if someone is hitting the haste cap, they're going to swap out their +haste gear for +attack/accuracy gear; something you're not accounting for at all in your little formulas.
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God you're retarded. I'm only answering your 'serious' question. When I said 'lol' it was because that was a one hour period during a party that averaged as a whole 18-20k per hour as you stated earlier. If getting ONE hour of experience that hit 25k ONE time is your basis for using meat, look at the other hours of the party.
When we party, we don't have one hour that is 5-7k/hour over our average, perhaps, just in that hour, you got incredibly LUCKY. The rest of your pt, is just how I depicted it, 16-18k/hour. This is the only thing I"m arguing...you told people you could get said exp/hour, then tried to justify it with your accuracy formula bullshit. This was your first post where I jumped in:
You then disagreed with my factually proven evidence, and stated your parties 'capped' at 25k/hour here as defense of your meat is better:
Couple of other cleanup notes:
Yes, my accuracy would be better than a 2-hander because they can get away with eating meat without madrigal. If the 2-hander used sushi, it would be a waste. THIS is where meat is beneficial.
My exp doesn't 'cap' one time. My parties are ALWAYS 23-26k depending who is available, and its consistancy at those numbers, not one hour 20k, the next 25k, then 18k in the final hour. 4x NIN or /NIN melee that aren't retarded, a good brd (including one you're also arguing with) and a good WHM. We pumped out these numbers pre-2-hand update, post 2-hand update, whenever, wherever you want. If you want to know why i'm comparing my gear to yours, its because you're claiming you can get exp/hour that you can't.
If you'd like, I can have a party setup for you that you will undoubtedly place last in a parse for, to see the vast difference in ability so that you see why I'm laughing at your 'cap' at 25k/hour claim. Its always been about efficiency and consistancy, and if you're driving a cap up 5-7k from your total exp/hour from that fight, your numbers are completely off the board.
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Please show me where I said I do all my partying in the Mire/Colibri.
TP Gear
Main: Woodsville
Sub: Maneater +5 acc
Ammo: Fire Bomblet +6 acc
Head: Turban
Body: Haubergeon NQ +10 acc +5 DEX
Hands: Dusk gloves
Legs: Byakko's Haidate +15 DEX
Feet: Unicorn leggings
Neck: PCC +10 acc
Waist: Swift belt +3 acc
Ears: Brutal/Supp
Rings: Rajas/Sniper's +5 DEX +5 acc
Back: Forager's
That is what I TP in. Please tell me what I am missing that is so groundbreaking in the accuracy department besides an Ebody.
So I drop 5% in haste so I don't waste the 2nd march, what gear do you suggest I use to make up for 112 attack that I lose from not eatting Red Curry?
Wrong. This is where you jumped in. This is what the original arguement was about. Nice try though.
You said you had 102 DEX with a Rajas on. If you were to use a GA you would only get a 26 accuracy bonus that dual wielders don't get. So it's ok for a 2 Hander who only got a 26 accuracy bonus from DEX and 7 accuracy from skill/gear assuming you have CAPPED GA merits to use meat, but when I suggest using Blade Madrigal for +31 acc I'm retarded? (in a 2xBRD party, like I said earlier, shit is SITUATIONAL)
Baja is this other party member corrrect? Well he said he can get 30k/hr and he made it sound like it's something he does all the time. You say 26k/hr, which is it? And if it is 30k an hour please tell me what I am doing wrong to only get 18k/hr. Please tell me what gear I am missing that will boost my xp/hr 12k.
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Baja isn't the other member. I've partied with him once, but that's it. You forgot to respond to my challenge dipshit. Take it or leave it. Stop throwing numbers around and back them up. Here's your chance, prove Jamal wrong. I've already confirmed a couple of party members.
What challenge? That you can outparse me? Did I ever say that you couldn't? If it will make you feel better I will merit with you so you can beat me in a parse. Date and time? Weeknights would be best for me. Preferable Monday. If not Monday let me know and we'll work something out.
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Not just that I'll beat you, but everyone in the party will handily beat you. Two sessions, one with bard using mad/min, one with march/min.
Monday is New Years Eve, I as I'm sure others have plans then. PM me with your availability, and I'll work things out. Also, if you would like to supply other party members so you don't feel its weighted against you, I'm open to that. But melee's are designated by me.
Oh yea sorry forgot about New Years Eve. Maybe the following Monday? But get whomever you want, I have nothing to prove. I know what I did and how much xp I got months ago, but apparently since I am not in Jamals circle of friends there is absolutely no way I can consistently get 18k+/hr.
Oh and if it is only one BRD I would prefer Min/mar. Like I said earlier, shit is situational. And yes I will be eating sushi in this setup. And will this be a sponge parse like you did many months ago? Or will everyone have to go NIN or /NIN?
Oh and if it is only one BRD I would prefer Min/mar. Like I said earlier, shit is situational. And yes I will be eating sushi in this setup. And will this be a sponge parse like you did many months ago? Or will everyone have to go NIN or /NIN?
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18k an hour is believable. 25k/hour is what i have the problem with, which is the number you through out right away in your defense. It has nothing to do with my circle of friends, you showed your gear, I told you what you could expect with that. Exceptions (aka your 25k hour) do not make rules, consistency does.
We're doing a dual-weild + h2h parse, so yes, it will be /nin. Subjobs have no bearing on this. If we have another week to come up with it, details can be ironed out at a later date.
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For my contribution to the selective reading fad, I'd like to point out that most bards, while I agree they get merits easily, do not tend to spend them on Madrigal. Lullaby recast is *practically* (not entirely, but practically) a given for bard group 1 merits, and since Minuet gets vastly more usage than Madrigal, Minuet effect is almost always merited over Madrigal effect. Some bards opt for Finale recast over boosting buffs as well. Lullaby/Minuet and Lullaby/Finale are the most popular combos (Lullaby/Minuet being pretty much the standard).
Even though I agree that boosting a buff by 5 acc is generally more helpful than boosting a buff by 5 att, it doesn't really matter when - as already established in this topic - Madrigal gets very little use in merits, outside of THF mobs and colibri parties.
There do exist bards who merit Madrigal, I'm sure - but I'm also pretty confident that they're something of a minority. So in general, while I'd agree with your assumption that the bard is using the instrument, I would *not* agree with your assumption that the bard has Madrigal merited.
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Has anyone actually -tested- Paluhwan Khazagand's crit rate bonus? With destroyers, p body, maxed crit merits, and being a mithra, I was a critmaster of disaster in merit parties.
I imagine if P body gives enough crit bonus, it could surpass Shura Togi for TPing...does anyone know how much crit it gives?
I imagine if P body gives enough crit bonus, it could surpass Shura Togi for TPing...does anyone know how much crit it gives?
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I read somewhere on QCDN (around the time ToAU came out) and someone had actually parsed its effect on crits. I'm near 100% in remembering that more than one person actually got less crits then they usually did by wearing it, but that very easily could have been fixed since i don't play anymore.