More Privacy Concerns...

[Elemmire]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/03/20/cia-gus-hunt-big-data_n_2917842.html

Even more news I find that disturbs how intrusive and disgusting our privacy policies are in our country. Basically, CIA admitting how much they keep on record of people.

There really needs to be laws against this. No corporations or government should tie data towards an individual in my opinion. At least not without blatantly saying what information will be stored. And the only information that might need be stored would be that to be convenient to the individual, not the corporation or government. It really comes down to the details, but I don't see a reason for say a grocery store to keep data on who buys what. I can see reason for them to take down what's sold, when it's sold, where it's sold, how much it sells for, how much of the item was sold, etc for their own stocking purposes, but there's absolutely no reason to tie who it is sold to or especially why. That's none of their business.

And in this story's case, the government has no business knowing why a person does something if it's not harming others nor do they need to know what someone is doing or where they are at all times. Especially at the bullshit claim of "security." I recall one of our greats in history saying

"Any people who would give up a little freedom for a little security will deserve and receive neither."

I really think it's about time more people get educated about this, stop saying "Well there's no real privacy in the world" as if it's ok because that's the way things are, and start petitioning and writing their congressman and senators against this constant privacy invasion from all facets of power these days.

 

[Morcheeba]

But there is no privacy, those that know about it still put it all out there, and most others don't give a shit what is out there.

 

[Strid]

But there is no privacy

And I feel it worth mentioning as well, that there never, ever has been.

Also, allow me to educate you on writing congressmen and senators: you're not writing to them, you're writing to someone they hired to "read" through their mail. You'd have better luck changing the world by bashing your head into a wall repeatedly.

 

[Elemmire]

You people are so defeatist it's sad

There used to be way more privacy and just because it's the norm atm that privacy is going away doesn't mean that's ok -_- and it's better to at least TRY and write your congressman/senators and encourage others to do the same instead of just giving in. God damn people these days... that's why we're losing more rights and freedoms. Because of the complacency and defeatist attitude of many

 

[alanon]

If you have a facebook/twitter/myspace/etc account, you are a Hypocrite if you complain about privacy....

You can have your privacy, but you have to be willing to make sacrifices to do it. Cut the cord to the internet. Dump your cell phone. Pay with cash.

People do this already.

 

[Elemmire]

I do not have such things actually :O I don't even have a cell phone. Hate the bills. And those aren't valid reasons to excuse the privacy invasion anyways. We shouldn't let companies take down your information they don't need to provide the service to you. The only reason they take it down is to sell it to others later. That's.. fucked up.

 

[Morcheeba]

Like cigarette smoking, people (most), are more than aware of the dangers that having accounts on social networks such as those mentioned, it means they'll likely have little privacy. They do so willingly.

Sorry to be so indifferent, but I'm one of those people who ultimately don't care.. not much anyway. I'm not too worried about what information can be found about me, I don't care that I'm targeted marketing wise.. I just don't care because there's nothing for me to hide really.

I have FB.. I don't have a cell, and that's about it. FB is a rat trap, but I signed up years ago... I use it regularly, and I really don't care that even my back end info has been sold ;p Honest to god.. for me personally, it has no effect. I'm more concerned about privacy on a business/personal level in the sense of employers, current or potential scoping (or even trying) your personal opinions/pictures/party habits on FB. That's another matter.. but still touches on privacy issues, just a different flavour from what you're suggesting.

I do take issue with how companies are allowed to by-pass otherwise sensitive information in some very deceptive ways, but it didn't take long for most everyone to clue into the scandals... those who backed out are free from it, others bitched, shrugged their shoulders and carried on with their instagramfests.

I get where you're coming from, and there should be some lines I suppose, maybe when I've gotten done buying a box of hair dye I shouldn't be asked my postal code (zip)... all for marketing purposes, who buys at this store etc. Or after a purchase at any retail be asked my name, address, numbers, email etc... retail.. clothes! Yes these things kinda bug me. But I like discounts, so I like online coupons and codes.

 

[Strid]

You people are so defeatist it's sad

There used to be way more privacy and just because it's the norm atm that privacy is going away doesn't mean that's ok -_- and it's better to at least TRY and write your congressman/senators and encourage others to do the same instead of just giving in. God damn people these days... that's why we're losing more rights and freedoms. Because of the complacency and defeatist attitude of many

No, defeatist is to give up; I'm a realist and as such I value my time. I also do not wear tin foil hats, they look stupid and I much prefer my education instead. Privacy has always, always, always gone down as technology has improved; it's a simple fact of life. As well, and large in part because of that, it's often times more our own fault that we do not have personal privacy to the level we desire, than that of our government's. Also, you're better off doing other things than writing your congressmen, it's not giving in, it's simply choosing to better allocate your time. Why in the hell would you go to work if you knew you weren't going to be paid? It's stupid, it's pointless, and you wouldn't do it. You'd go do something else, something not stupid, not pointless, and not a waste of your time (but then again that's assuming someone is rational, which probably, you're not).

If you want friggin' hermit level privacy, do as alanon suggest, it's still around and it's easy to come by. However, if you want to participate in modern society (which we all [every. single. person.] have the choice to forgo), you have to give up certain things. This is not a new concept to the U.S. nor anywhere in the world. Every convenience of modern day society has a price, every last one of them and generally for damn good reason. That all said, the government is generally not privacy's worst enemy (especially in the U.S.). Shit, I wouldn't be surprised if there are department stores that know more about you than the government does.

I don't even know why I bother anymore.

 

[Elemmire]

There's being a realist, and there's being a defeatist. Being negative about it is being defeatist. There's being a realist, recognizing the difficulties, but being positive that good changes can come. People don't make a change in the world by being negative and pointing out the bad. And those being positive aren't ignoring the difficulties it takes to achieve something, but they aren't pointing them out in a way that seems like "why bother" as you were kinda doing >.> still doing. And I say it's better to try every single option. It doesn't take that long to write your congressman/senator. It's like the bar minimum. And considering so much of our privacy is collected by the government in less than ideal ways or ways that aren't with our consent? Ya... it is a government issue.

And maybe someone would do the work because it provides other opportunities or because they genuinely enjoy the work they do to the point it's not work to them. Not everything boils down to getting money for people. And you're not being a rational person or a realist, you're being a defeatist. You're being weak. You don't care to even try because it's hard or no immediate benefit you can see. Do you think ANY changes in our world came easy or quickly and those leading it had such a mindset as yours? No. Martin Luther King Jr., Gandhi, Thomas Jefferson, Winston Churchill, or anyone who really brought positive change for a nation or a people had a mindset like yours? Where they were "rational" in the way you are? Not even trying? Nope.

 

[Lanien]

CIA can have their records. Privacy is overrated. If they want to keep track, good for them. I hope the porn on my PC gets them off too.

 

[Strid]

...stuff...

No... just. no. It's like listening/comprehending is beyond you on crap like this.

 

[Morcheeba]

It is no longer some conspiracy or secret that companies are obtaining our information both online and in person, most are offering it up. If you do not want to partake, if you do not want your information being taken and shared for the purpose of consumerism (perhaps I'm being naive with that statement).. don't buy from those companies. Do not purchase online, delete any and every profile you have online. I'm not sure what other methods are being used aside from the obvious to obtain our info.. so without knowing, there's nothing to bitch about.

I'm not a 'defeatist', I know what's being done and the obvious purposes behind it and no, I don't care. It doesn't effect me personally.

You -could- use one of those nifty petition sites that have popped up all over the place before sending a solitary letter to your MP. It's hard to makes waves when you're merely a drop with no other momentum.

If you want your privacy, don't buy into the ever growing technological culture.

 

[Elemmire]

No... just. no. It's like listening/comprehending is beyond you on crap like this.

Simple question. Are you willing to try and even bring change? If no, you're a defeatist. If yes, your posts don't match that >.>

It is no longer some conspiracy or secret that companies are obtaining our information both online and in person, most are offering it up. If you do not want to partake, if you do not want your information being taken and shared for the purpose of consumerism (perhaps I'm being naive with that statement).. don't buy from those companies. Do not purchase online, delete any and every profile you have online. I'm not sure what other methods are being used aside from the obvious to obtain our info.. so without knowing, there's nothing to bitch about.

I'm not a 'defeatist', I know what's being done and the obvious purposes behind it and no, I don't care. It doesn't effect me personally.

You -could- use one of those nifty petition sites that have popped up all over the place before sending a solitary letter to your MP. It's hard to makes waves when you're merely a drop with no other momentum.

If you want your privacy, don't buy into the ever growing technological culture.

There's the problem. Even if you didn't buy into newer stuff you will still have your information scrapped and gathered without your approval. And there's no reason you should have to go to such lengths as to step out of society just to protect your privacy. That's so freaking absolutist it's insane. Why settle for such things? Why not try and make the world better where some information can be gathered, but other can not? Why not try and regulate these things from both the government and the corporations because, let's face it, they don't really need all the information. We don't need Big Brother in the world. It's really frightening how complacent people are these days...

 

[Lanien]

Make the world better? Maybe I am the only one that thinks the world would be better knowing that people who make certain purchases or view certain websites ARE being tracked. If you have nothing to hide, what is the big deal? I like advertising that is directed towards me. I like that the government can track people who view certain websites and can be monitored. Oh no, Google knows I like pictures of cats! How dare they!

And that Benjamin Franklin quote is pretty ridiculous. Freedom for the sake of freedom is a threat to social order. Ideology is nice, but isn't realistic.

 

[Raesvelg]

<Hmmm.>

I'm largely indifferent to corporations knowing what I like to watch/buy/sell/etc. The goal of a corporation is to make money; sure, it's a soulless, emotionless abomination, but the fact remains that like all creatures purely dedicated to its own survival, I can actually trust a corporation to use preference information in a fashion that benefits me, be it through targeted advertising or whatnot. It wants to make money. Using my personal information to somehow oppress me is not in a corporation's best interest. At least not until we reach some sort of cyberpunk dystopian future where the corporations control everything and there are no alternatives.

There are two areas where we get into trouble, however.

The first is government generating massive databases of such information and accessing it at will. The worst I can expect from a corporation would be to decide that "hey, this guy really likes fertilizer and fuel oil, we should send him coupons!"

The government, however, might decide that I'm up to some nefarious purpose, despite the fact that I am, for example, just living on a farm.

Now that's a fairly minor concern of the government database. On the whole, it's even one that most people would be willing to accept if it limits the amount of certain crimes; that sort of online purchase tracking would occasionally head off some murders, bombings, and a whoooooole lot of child abuse.

The worrisome part, however, comes when the technology kicks up a notch, and the government starts tracking movements, monitoring phone calls, and so on. If the CIA could build a database of every single thing happening at all times, rest assured they probably would. They'd have to hide the bloody thing in a fucking nuclear reactor, since that's about the only way to power/cool it, but they would.

And that gets dangerous. Because then we're giving the government a bit too much control; it's roughly the same concern that people on several sides of the gun debate have.

The gun owners don't (for the most part) want to be entered into a massive database of gun owners for fear that such information could be used against them if the laws change in the future.

People who have passed through the hands of the mental health industry don't (for the most part) want to be entered into a massive database of mental patients for exactly the same reason.

They both have good reason to be concerned; information of that type has been used against people in the past, and societal shifts can happen with terrifying speed.

The second concern over the existence of such databases is a lot more pressing.

Security.

Let's be honest; functionally any form of security can be broken with enough patience, time, and processing power. It may take weeks of calling to get through to one poor bastard who just wants the annoying voice on the phone to go away, or weeks of processing time for a computer bigger than most of our homes, or weeks planning an actual physical infiltration of the building where the database is kept, but it's been done repeatedly over the past decade, so we all have to acknowledge that it's possible.

And given the shitstorm that kicked up when PSN got hacked, I think we'd all be a bit more riled up if, for example, the entirety of Amazon's database were stolen.

If we admit that there's no foolproof security, we have to at least ask the question whether or not the convenience and arguable safety offered by these databases is outweighed by the danger of having them fall into the wrong hands.

It's not a simple black & white, good vs bad question. Apathy doesn't help any more than tin-hat conspiracy theories. It's a serious question, and it's one that is going to get a lot more relevant once someone really big gets hacked.

 

[Elemmire]

Make the world better? Maybe I am the only one that thinks the world would be better knowing that people who make certain purchases or view certain websites ARE being tracked. If you have nothing to hide, what is the big deal? I like advertising that is directed towards me. I like that the government can track people who view certain websites and can be monitored. Oh no, Google knows I like pictures of cats! How dare they!

And that Benjamin Franklin quote is pretty ridiculous. Freedom for the sake of freedom is a threat to social order. Ideology is nice, but isn't realistic.

That's nice you don't have a problem with it, but others might not care to be monitored. And you might go "BUT SECURITY" ya and? There's a reason that search and seizures and such were supposed to require a warrant. Because you're not supposed to treat the people as a whole guilty before any proof of such actions. And privacy is something (to some degrees) that's protected under our Bill of Rights (or supposed to be, but being consistently killed). If you're trying to invade on rights because of "Security" you're not even being realistic yourself. Compare the total number of people of the country to those who are criminals (and I mean the "violent crimes"). Statistically speaking? Criminals are a TINY minority.

http://www.nationmaster.com/country/us-united-states/cri-crime

Total Crimes ~ 11,877,218
US population ~ 313,914,040

That's roughly 3.8% (rounding UP) of our population that's a threat. And note, that crime data is fairly old. And crime rates have, mostly, gone down over the years.

That's not even scientifically reasonable as to why you should invade on EVERYONE'S rights for the idea of security.

 

[Lanien]

Following your data would allow me to infer that as privacy is taken away, crime rates have gone down.

 

[Strid]

Simple question. Are you willing to try and even bring change? If no, you're a defeatist. If yes, your posts don't match that >.>

You see, this is exactly my problem with you on these types of topics. Hopefully this will help you (because I do enjoy you, just not on these topics), but really, it's my last attempt at that.

Just because I said writing a senator or congressman is a waste of time doesn't mean a person shouldn't do something else instead. The entire point was lost on you, that I said do something else, something productive, and fruitful; what was that all for? What part of that made you think I was telling someone to completely give up a dream/goal? You see what I'm talking about with you here? I just... I don't know how to talk to people like you about such as this because you don't listen to what you don't want to hear.

 

[Elemmire]

Following your data would allow me to infer that as privacy is taken away, crime rates have gone down.

Ah but that would be incorrect because there are many variables that could account for crime rates going down such as education, economy, entertainment, or various other things. Correlation is not causation.

You see, this is exactly my problem with you on these types of topics. Hopefully this will help you (because I do enjoy you, just not on these topics), but really, it's my last attempt at that.

Just because I said writing a senator or congressman is a waste of time doesn't mean a person shouldn't do something else instead. The entire point was lost on you, that I said do something else, something productive, and fruitful; what was that all for? What part of that made you think I was telling someone to completely give up a dream/goal? You see what I'm talking about with you here? I just... I don't know how to talk to people like you about such as this because you don't listen to what you don't want to hear.

See, then I dunno what you're calling to do x.x I have plenty of energy and drive to do many things while writing my congressman/senator if I have a problem with a law as well as educating others of the problem and ya. I'm not very good at leading people and I don't really want to go to full on protest mode (and certainly don't want violence) so I'm not sure how many other options that would be necessary to help bring change that you could be getting at o.o

 

[Lanien]

And one of those variables is the amount of privacy. Take the tinfoil hat off. If you have nothing to hide, who cares what anyone knows?