morrigan's robe on quetz.

Since there is already a sacrifice being made, (read: RDM Chainspell nuke the stone and then die) it could easily be done by a THF&BLM combo instead. Only the THF would die, while the BLM nukes the extension.
But that, as I said earlier, doubles the chance of screw ups. Additionally, a RDM chainspell nuking never fails. Its also a very fast, efficient and safe way.

I still fail to realize why you care to show how stupid and inefficient our way of dealing with the first extention is. It works for us, and we never need to use our 2-hours anyway. So its not a waste. Seriously, why are you trying to convince us otherways are better when our way is just as good as any other way? I fail to understand that.
 
If you want to use benediction, yes. you can use it. however, you're not using it to do any good. We use 1 chainspell out of the 4 we have available to kill the extention in the most easy efficient way. It also saves time, which would do more god then popping Benediction for the hell of it.

And using it to cure al ot of people is also a use-it-because-its-available situation. Because after Mijin Gakure, the mob is almost dead, and and won't use any other AoE's. so the same could be acomplished with Curagas and normal cures. So that would also be a "use it just because its available" situation.

Also, to help nuke a group of mosnters would be the very same argument you shot Pchan down for earlier. Its also the very thing you're preaching against on the extention.

And no, its not flawed. Driving to buy gas woudl be the easy way out, since there are numerous other options. You can get the extention by suicide pulling it and then nuking it. However, chainspell nuking it is the easy way out.

And I already showed why its just as efficient, but you ignore those. Feel free to go back and look through the thread if you're that hellbent on proving me wrong.
Benediction cures people, that's not good anymore? You've got to be the shitties whm ever if you don't think keeping people alive is a good use of your 2 hour.

Apparently you missed the part about "doing something that you can't normally do without using a 2 hour." Nuking a group of monsters down is something you can't do without chainspell, try actually reading everything written, instead of just parts of sentances. One of the NM's in Xarc fires off Mijin and doesn't die, so the mob isn't always dead afterwards. Plus, it's not hard at all to believe that something might wake up and start killing people.

Your gas example is wrong because you're only looking to one aspect of the situation, how to get the extension/gas. You're completely ignoring the second half of the situation, how long it takes before you can do it again, and that's how your example is wrong. With the gas, you can drive anywhere instantly, with the 2 hour you have to wait. I guess this explains why you think a 2 hour ability is just as efficient as a 5-minute ability, you're not bothering to think more than 5 seconds into the future.

You've shown that chainspell is effective, not efficient. Efficient is not just in the amount of time it takes, but also in how you manage your resources. I'd say killing the entire thing is the most efficient, while it takes the longest, it uses up the least amount of resources and means you don't have to kill them later on. Hell, you're only saving a couple seconds from having 2 blm kill the stone, or having a thf pull and people killing the stone; so it's not noticeably faster either; and if you had a ranger, it'd actually be slower than just barrage.

pchan said:
You need to define what exactly is "wasting" a 2H
Apparently I only have to define it for you, everyone else seems to be understanding just fine. You are wasting the 2 hour by using it in place of multiple other means to accomplish the exact same thing in slightly more time. That's like using a Mercedez to haul around manure, when you have a beat-up truck at your disposal; it's overkill and not the best option.
 
Nevermind, I'm still quite hung over from this weekend and I'm at work at the moment. Looking back on my past pull of that extension, (and the only one I've made) Gladdy was showing me where to stand to make the kill without aggro. He walked too close and aggro'd the eyes, I quickly hit my RA macro and one shot the extension with Barrage. We both died, but there was time between aggroing the eyes and the spawned mobs chasing after.

Considering the time it took for the mobs spawned by the eyes to attack and kill him - then me afterwards, I'm now fully confident about one BLM being able to nuke the stone down. Even if it takes 2 IV spells. Two BLM could easily kill that extension without dying before the stone does.

There is no way you can do that. You need to be at casting range to kill the stone. Being at casting range means being very close to the eyes, meaning eyes aggroing, meaning 20 mobs smashing you before you finish casting.
 
Benediction cures people, that's not good anymore? You've got to be the shitties whm ever if you don't think keeping people alive is a good use of your 2 hour.
If you have MP, you might aswell cure. So benediction doesn't do any good in that case. Sure, you can throw it out randomly, I don't care, but there's the off chance you get hate and die, in which case it would slow you down.

Apparently you missed the part about "doing something that you can't normally do without using a 2 hour." Nuking a group of monsters down is something you can't do without chainspell, try actually reading everything written, instead of just parts of sentances. One of the NM's in Xarc fires off Mijin and doesn't die, so the mob isn't always dead afterwards. Plus, it's not hard at all to believe that something might wake up and start killing people.
Yeah, because waking mobs up to nuke them in a bad situation is really a good way of using your 2-hour.
Your gas example is wrong because you're only looking to one aspect of the situation, how to get the extension/gas. You're completely ignoring the second half of the situation, how long it takes before you can do it again, and that's how your example is wrong. With the gas, you can drive anywhere instantly, with the 2 hour you have to wait. I guess this explains why you think a 2 hour ability is just as efficient as a 5-minute ability, you're not bothering to think more than 5 seconds into the future.
Your benediction theory is flawed because you're only looking at 1 aspect of the situation, that you'll actually need that persons 2-hour later. You're completely ignoring the second half of the situation, how low the chance is you'll actually need it, and the fact that you rarely ever use your 2-hour, and that is how your example is flawed. With chainspell, you can nuke it fast, efficient and safe, with the gas, you can just drive to buy more gas instead of saving untill an emergency, or walkign to buy the gas.

I guess that explains why you think using 1 chainspell is so ineficient, you're assumign your shell is so bad that they'll actually need the 2-hour.
You've shown that chainspell is effective, not efficient. Efficient is not just in the amount of time it takes, but also in how you manage your resources. I'd say killing the entire thing is the most efficient, while it takes the longest, it uses up the least amount of resources and means you don't have to kill them later on. Hell, you're only saving a couple seconds from having 2 blm kill the stone, or having a thf pull and people killing the stone; so it's not noticeably faster either; and if you had a ranger, it'd actually be slower than just barrage.
If it is effective, safe and fast, it is efficient. Yes, it is how you manage your resources. We don't want to kill it all, because its safer. I'd rather not risking a wipe when you can just suicide pull it and farm easier pulls later. Chainspelling it is a good way of using our resources since we never, ever use 2-hours otherwise. And yes, it would be faster with a RNG, nut we don't have one. Hence, we're doing the easiest way.

Apparently I only have to define it for you, everyone else seems to be understanding just fine. You are wasting the 2 hour by using it in place of multiple other means to accomplish the exact same thing in slightly more time. That's like using a Mercedez to haul around manure, when you have a beat-up truck at your disposal; it's overkill and not the best option.
No, we're not using it in multiple other ways. We're using it in one way in the start. That's 1/24+ 2-hours used. We don't accomplish the same thing in slightly more time. We accomplish it in slightly less time. Yes, it is overkill, and it is a good option sicne its safe and easy. It also saves time (unless you use a RNg, in which case that would be faster).

You still didn't asnwer why you're even bothering to try and explain why, in your opinion, the way another shell runs their Dynamis runs is less efficient. It works good for us, and it neither a waste of resources nor is it stupid for us. Our shell is good, we don't assume that we'll have to use all 4 RDMes chainspells during a run. If you assume you'll have to use all 4 chainspells to wake mobs up to nuke, or to raise people because you wipe a lot, that's your problem. And in that case I do feel sorry for you. Mayeb its time to look for a better shell?
 
I never said chainspell raise is it's only use, you could use a 2hr to throw out instant cures to keep a lot of people alive after a Mijin/Astral Flow; or to help nuke a group of monsters. Just something that couldn't be easily accomplished without using a 2 hour ability.

Your gas example is flawed, in that you're going to be using the gas either way; but you're going to be getting new gas with that usage. That example is akin to blowing your 2 hour so you can get a revitalizer more than anything relevant in this thread.

The whole point is how inefficient it is to use a 2 hour ability when you can do the exact same thing in multiple ways without the 2 hour. You've yet to actually show how using a 2 hour is in any way nearly as efficient as any of the other methods aside from barrage, since you don't have a ranger.

If the LS get astral flowed, either the rdm dies and cant heal, either it survives and cant heal since other are dead.

Nothing is more efficient than killing fast the first stone so either CS nuke it or use ranger. All other way implie more downtime.
 
Let me sum it up:
Chainspell nuking the first extention is useless, because
  1. You need to go in with the assumption you'll need 4 RDMes to chainspell raise people in the middle of the run. If you don't make this assumption, you're not thinking ahead more then 5 seconds.
  2. It is a much better use of resources to chainspell resisted nukes on a group of sleeping demons.
  3. You could use something else to kill it.
Yes, you could use some oter way of killing them. But we don't, because we like this way. Did I miss any reasons? 'cause I'm going to bed. I expect a compiled list in the morning.
 
There is no way you can do that. You need to be at casting range to kill the stone. Being at casting range means being very close to the eyes, meaning eyes aggroing, meaning 20 mobs smashing you before you finish casting.

Can anyone else confirm that on the first extension there is ABSOLUTELY no way to get close enough in range to nuke the eyes without catching aggro from them first? I don't even think thats true....
 
im almost sure its true . if its not thats great. It could be possible using eye pathing and taking advantege but well it would amount to waste some time. The stone is usually down before i even enter the zone.

also barajjatt mentionned many ways of killing it and i just see 4 or 5:

1. suicide pull (long cause it requires 2 people, may fail)
2. rdm chainsell nuke.
3. ranger barrage ( can miss very rarely i read somewhere, or rng 2H).
4. sam/thf flee and ws it.
5. just kill those mobs if your ls can.
 
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hellstorm said:
ihasabucketrp3copy.jpg

Very good!
 
There is no way you can do that. You need to be at casting range to kill the stone. Being at casting range means being very close to the eyes, meaning eyes aggroing, meaning 20 mobs smashing you before you finish casting.

2 BLM/RDMs could easily kill it before getting killed. If it takes a RDM 10 seconds to do it, 2 BLMs can easily kill it in 10 seconds also. It doesn't take 10 seconds to cast Thunder IV. Eyes cast when they aggro for one, and the Demons that pop aren't going to get there that quickly.

This thread should be renamed Pointless Dynamis Xarcabard discussion.
 
im almost sure its true . if its not thats great. It could be possible using eye pathing and taking advantege but well it would amount to waste some time. The stone is usually down before i even enter the zone.

I seriously doubt it is considering every other eye in Xarcabard can be nuked without getting aggro before the spell goes off. And 2-3 Blm with a timed nuke would take it out no problem and it would be just as fast as chainspell nuking if not safer.

Again if anyone can confirm pchan's claims, it would help.
 
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But that, as I said earlier, doubles the chance of screw ups. Additionally, a RDM chainspell nuking never fails. Its also a very fast, efficient and safe way.

:( screwing up sac pulls?
 
im almost sure its true . if its not thats great. It could be possible using eye pathing and taking advantege but well it would amount to waste some time. The stone is usually down before i even enter the zone.

also barajjatt mentionned many ways of killing it and i just see 4 or 5:

1. suicide pull (long cause it requires 2 people, may fail)
2. rdm chainsell nuke.
3. ranger barrage ( can miss very rarely i read somewhere, or rng 2H).
4. sam/thf flee and ws it.
5. just kill those mobs if your ls can.
4 or 5 is many.
 
I seriously doubt it is considering every other eye in Xarcabard can be nuked without getting aggro before the spell goes off. And 2-3 Blm with a timed nuke would take it out no problem and it would be just as fast as chainspell nuking if not safer.

Again if anyone can confirm pchan's claims, it would help.
2-3 means 2-3 BLMEs that die, instead of a lonely RDM. 2-3 BLMes also means 2-3 people that you have to trade hourglass to and enter.
 
2 BLM/RDMs could easily kill it before getting killed. If it takes a RDM 10 seconds to do it, 2 BLMs can easily kill it in 10 seconds also. It doesn't take 10 seconds to cast Thunder IV. Eyes cast when they aggro for one, and the Demons that pop aren't going to get there that quickly.

This thread should be renamed Pointless Dynamis Xarcabard discussion.

I think you should try out your idea before saying it would work. Chainspell is a must because of "instant" casting. Even with mob smashing you the spell is casted. Thats why this 2H is STRONG. Instant cast, instant recast. And even if it works it implies the 2 BLM dieing, and you'll be short of 2 BLM for the second extension which is harder.
 
then you got 2 people die instead of 1. Hence why 1 rdm 2h id better.
 
:( screwing up sac pulls?

sometime sac pull screw for unknown reason. For example the sac will aggro everything and run in some direction. the claimer claims the stone and kill it or bring to camp. however sometimes the claimer will have hate from the train after killing the stone, for some reason, which means he will die, as well as wipe the shell if he went back to camp.
 
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