Natal

[Bajaratt]

I believe they said they dont intend on making this a MS only technology.. So toss the fan shit away Baj.

The fact that you still need a remote to play the wii makes it nothing innovative to me Baj.. I know you are a fan of the system so that is where this conversation ends. I dont need to deal with an agressive wii mote weilder.

Love the classic backtrack while attempting(and failing) to brush aside legitimate points; although usually I get that from the PS3 fanboys. The fact that I'm a fan of the Wii does nothing to undermine my points, despite your inability to refute them. If anything, it reinforces them; since I'm familiar with what's going to happen to the technology, since it's been going on for 2 years with the Wii. Although, I do appreciate the blatant Wii bashing.

 

[TheOsyris]

Love the classic backtrack while attempting(and failing) to brush aside legitimate points; although usually I get that from the PS3 fanboys. The fact that I'm a fan of the Wii does nothing to undermine my points, despite your inability to refute them. If anything, it reinforces them; since I'm familiar with what's going to happen to the technology, since it's been going on for 2 years with the Wii. Although, I do appreciate the blatant Wii bashing.

There is no brushing anything here buddy. There was nothing to fight against in your points, they are your opinions... I will tend to dissagree with everything you say so why should i bother? My opinion is different, oh say it aint so.

You are looking for something that i am not giving. Go fuck yourself Baj.. Thats all you are getting from me.

The technology displayed by Natal is impressive and thats back to where we are. There is no proof of anything we speculate yet involving this tech because we have no idea just how far advanced this is compared to regular motion sensing cameras and mics.

Thank you, come again.

 

[Eleibfrid]

The presentation on Natal has been far more impressive than anything I've seen on the Wii thus far.

It won't be out for months, but from the demonstrations of the games, the paint, Mylo, and the simple thing of just browsing for the menus, I'd highly doubt that MS wouldn't dump lots of money for developers to correctly utilize this technology and at least put a few decent games out for it. May not be super hardcore, but I'd be willing to bet that there would be less shovelware out for it due compared to the Wii simply because Natal won't come standard. If MS wants this thing to sell, they'd be smart enough to develop worthy enough titles to use Natal with properly. Not a 360 version of Chicken Shoot.

It is more advanced than the Wii/wiimote simply because there was no real controller. I didn't see any type of special gloves on anyone or body hardware (maybe a fingertip sensor but it was nothing noticeable.) The demonstrations shows 1:1 motion. Whereas the Wii is coming out with Wii Sports Resort that includes a motion sensing enhancer for the wiimote. Wasn't wii's sensing technology supposed to be complete without that extra accessory?

 

[Halifirien]

The big surprise at the end of the Milo demo? He turns into Seaman and swallows your soul.

 

[TheOsyris]

Not to mention elei.. Sony has sorta stamped their mark on the next gen of gaming. That would be Blu-ray. Its not NEEDED now but for the next gen i couldnt see it work without it...

I would think other then XBLs continued growth, MS is looking for their next big NEEDED contribution.

The freaking douche with the glasses that gave the demo said it was not just a MS thing.. They want all companies to invest in it for the next gen i am sure.

 

[Bajaratt]

There is no brushing anything here buddy. There was nothing to fight against in your points, they are your opinions... I will tend to dissagree with everything you say so why should i bother? My opinion is different, oh say it aint so.

So when they're said against the Wii, they're perfectly legitimate claims and are factual, but when brought up against Microsoft's motion capturing, it's pure opinion and is completely worthless and not worth addressing? But hey, if you want to act like you're the "big man" just because you don't have anything worthwhile to respond with to a legitimate observation of the likely limitations other than just "it's microsoft so it'll be awesome!" go right ahead.

You are looking for something that i am not giving.

Indeed, I'm looking for intelligent discourse and no fanboyism, both of which you're definitely not providing.

This is not, and never was a Wii vs. 360 thread/discussion. Stop trying to make it one.

 

[TheOsyris]

So when they're said against the Wii, they're perfectly legitimate claims and are factual, but when brought up against Microsoft's motion capturing, it's pure opinion and is completely worthless and not worth addressing? But hey, if you want to act like you're the "big man" just because you don't have anything worthwhile to respond with to a legitimate observation of the likely limitations other than just "it's microsoft so it'll be awesome!" go right ahead.


Indeed, I'm looking for intelligent discourse and no fanboyism, both of which you're definitely not providing.

My god i just dont want to respond to you but i cant help myself. Again Baj... Go fuck yourself.

If Sony made Natal it would be equally impressive to me.
If Nintendo made Natal it would have also.. Fact is MS made it.

I mean fuck what opinion of yours am i supposed to argue against?

You think the wii is a great technology? ok

You think Natal will be very limited due to our current tech? ok

What else? I dissagree with both above... What the fuck else do you want me to say.

You are a fucking nintendo solder weilding the wii mote like a light saber.. I have read previous posts from you and probably argued with you in the past about dumb irrelevant shit... Like our opinions that will not change.

Im fine with you feeling the way you do man and fuck you shouldnt care either way. Now let the thread get back to Project Natal and stop making it about me and you right now.

 

[Firestreak]

So I missed the press conference but I've sorta been catching myself up. I saw this fake looking trailer and I was not very impressed, then I saw this demonstration of this Milo game and I am very impressed. One thing I hope they do with this is NOT make wii-like games. I don't want to play crappy party games and I want want to play traditional games with motion controls jammed into them.

What I want is games like that Milo demonstration... with like.. the old school adventure stuff. That could be a lot of fun.

There's no denying this tech is cool, my only jab at it is gonna be that it's 4 years into the Xbox 360's lifetime. This isn't gonna get any 3rd party support and Microsoft barely has any first party. As far as I'm concerned this is a demo for the next Xbox and that's cool but let's not compare it to the Wii. I mean, I am not a huge Wii fan and I think this may be better tech, but the Wii is a console, this is an add on. Realistically, this isn't going to be huge. But hey, I will buy one assuming it's not priced outrageously. I think we all knew this tech was possible, I'm surprised it's mass consumer possible.

Sorry if I seem dismissive. I read the hype first and saw the videos after so my expectations were way up there. I'm intending to buy this am just not really wanting to throw all my controllers into the garbage just yet which is what the hype seemed like it was aiming at.

 

[TheOsyris]

So I missed the press conference but I've sorta been catching myself up. I saw this fake looking trailer and I was not very impressed, then I saw this demonstration of this Milo game and I am very impressed. One thing I hope they do with this is NOT make wii-like games. I don't want to play crappy party games and I want want to play traditional games with motion controls jammed into them.

What I want is games like that Milo demonstration... with like.. the old school adventure stuff. That could be a lot of fun.

There's no denying this tech is cool, my only jab at it is gonna be that it's 4 years into the Xbox 360's lifetime. This isn't gonna get any 3rd party support and Microsoft barely has any first party. As far as I'm concerned this is a demo for the next Xbox and that's cool but let's not compare it to the Wii. I mean, I am not a huge Wii fan and I think this may be better tech, but the Wii is a console, this is an add on. Realistically, this isn't going to be huge. But hey, I will buy one assuming it's not priced outrageously. I think we all knew this tech was possible, I'm surprised it's mass consumer possible.

Sorry if I seem dismissive. I read the hype first and saw the videos after so my expectations were way up there. I'm intending to buy this am just not really wanting to throw all my controllers into the garbage just yet which is what the hype seemed like it was aiming at.

I agree its very late for this to be all the rage on the 360.. But like i said i think MS is trying to establish their own "Need" on the next gen of console just as Blu-ray will be. Is this it? I dunno to be honest but i am interested enough to purchase my own.

 

[Bajaratt]

My god i just dont want to respond to you but i cant help myself. Again Baj... Go fuck yourself.

If Sony made Natal it would be equally impressive to me.
If Nintendo made Natal it would have also.. Fact is MS made it.

I mean fuck what opinion of yours am i supposed to argue against?

You think the wii is a great technology? ok

You think Natal will be very limited due to our current tech? ok

What else? I dissagree with both above... What the fuck else do you want me to say.

You are a fucking nintendo solder weilding the wii mote like a light saber.. I have read previous posts from you and probably argued with you in the past about dumb irrelevant shit... Like our opinions that will not change.

Im fine with you feeling the way you do man and fuck you shouldnt care either way. Now let the thread get back to Project Natal and stop making it about me and you right now.

The only person making this a Me vs. you thread is you. The only person making this a Wii vs. 360 thread is you. You're taking this entirely too personally for a simple observation of the games only appealing to the casual crowd. Calm down, and actually bother to understand that I'm not attacking anything, despite your complete misreading into thinking that I am. I've been trying to keep this on track as a discussion for Natal, all you've done is tell me to fuck myself and bash the Wii while blinding saying Natal is better with no justification for it.

Hell, Firestreak said the same thing, essentially(albeit from a different viewpoint/reason), that there wouldn't be much in the way of hardcore game support for Natal; and you're not jumping down his throat about this. So, apparently it's strictly personal to you when I make the same observation.

Natal is a cool addition to the 360, but primarly for the non-gaming aspects. I'm definitely getting one, but I don't plan on there being many "hardcore" games for it. Fun games, games I can play with my family, yes; but nothing remotely hardcore. They didn't show anything hardcore in their reveal, which they definitely would have had they had anything down the pipe as such; that and they outright said that Natal was to help get the casual gamers to play supports my opinion.

So, to you: go fuck yourself and don't stop until you have something worthwhile to say other than jacking off in Microsoft's mouth.

 

[Firestreak]

Well it's kind of interesting, looking at motion control. In a way, I've been mentally conditioned to think of it as "low tech" thanks to the Wii. I sort of got... "this is a new way to play" in exchange for.... all these things you lose.

Will it be 2 Xbox 360's ducked tape together with this Natal thing?

I know you will say "Hell no!" Osy, but look at the facts. Microsoft and Sony both wish they were Nintendo right now, at least, games division wise. Plus, they probably are thinking Xbox 360 is "good enough" tech wise. They'll probably throw in a Blu-ray drive, that'd give them something.

Sony is probably not going to launch PS4 for a while. PS3 I think can be pushed a lot further, I think Killzone 2 just started showing its real potential, so Microsoft is probably not thinking it needs a tech arms race for its next gen since it'll be fighting the PS3 for a while.

But anyway, I hope if this is their next console that they keep a controller as well. That's the big thing. If the Wii also came with gamecube-like controllers... or games supported gamecube controllers(other than just Smash bros) I'd have liked it. If there's a traditional game, that traditional controls work best for... why of god why force me to use motion controls???

But yeah... if MS gives us this, in addition to real controls for next gen, and gives us a real upgrade power wise not a gamecube>wii upgrade, it will be quite awesome.

Not really paying too much attention to the Baj/Osy argument, but from an outsider perspective I think I might be able to sum it up a little to hopefully allow the argument or whatever to disapate and more interesting speculation on Natal, what it means for future gaming, and the next Xbox to go on.

I can sort of see the Nintendo perspective of "hardcore gamers hate the wii and hate motion controllers" ... "until it comes to xbox." Which I may be missing the point but I think that's basically what Baj is trying to say. There's some truth in that but I think there are 2 things that make a lot of us dislike the Wii.

1. Outside of its controller, it's very weak tech.
2. It has the motion controller as its ONLY option.

The Xbox 360 is a high def console that's got pretty damn strong tech in it. And the Natal is an add on so we can still use our old controllers. In this regard, it doesn't disrupt the flow of traditional hardcore gaming. If this is a precursor to the next generation, and the next Xbox takes the same path, the hardcore gamers may very well forsake it as well. Moreso than Nintendo even, because Nintendo has better IPs for motion control than Xbox, so it could bring loyal fans over.

 

[TheOsyris]

Firestreak indeed said something similar and notice what i did to the part similar to yours... I ignored it.. Not that i didnt read it, i did. I did not respond to it because its his opinion and i already stated i feel different.

It amazes me you think someone will not fully support something that they obviously invested a large amount of time and money into already.. Now that is something similar to what Elei said and i agree there. Now i didnt stress how his opinion is similar to mine did i?

Baj seriously get a life. Now i am not full of myself, but am being forced to defend my opinion to you. Leave.. Seriously.

EDIT: Just editing to avoid a back to back post. I can understand those points fire and i would hope for the same. I in no way want controllers removed.. But to have the Natal tech as an addition would be great.

As you know i am very competative in online gaming and i just dont know how the accuracy would come into play with online gaming. Besides that there are just some unanswered things as far as gameplay goes looking at it through our current eyes.. But i am no developer, lets see how they feel about this in the next couple days i guess. They are doing live showings at their booth all E3.

 

[Bajaratt]

Firestreak indeed said something similar and notice what i did to the part similar to yours... I ignored it.. Not that i didnt read it, i did. I did not respond to it because its his opinion and i already stated i feel different.

No, you didn't do the same thing as with my post; in response to my post you attacked my opinion.

It amazes me you think someone will not fully support something that they obviously invested a large amount of time and money into already.

Where you pulled this from, I have no idea, because I damn sure didn't say anything close to this.

Baj seriously get a life. Now i am not full of myself, but am being forced to defend my opinion to you. Leave.. Seriously.

The only one attacking other people's opinions so far is you. The only one who needs a life is you, because you're the only one treating this personally and taking away from discussing of Natal by bashing the Wii and attacking me just because I have a different opinion. The only thing you're doing is keeping the thread off track by attacking people who don't think Natal is sheer perfection and will revolutionize gaming.

 

[Firestreak]

I'm all for "new genres" being invented with new controls. My favorite Wii game, and really one of my favorite games this gen, is Trauma Center. This is a game that needed the wii-mote to exist. Zelda did not need the wii mote. Mario did not need the Wii mote. These were games that were designed with the tradionial controls in mind, altered slightly and used as bad examples to justify the controller. It's just how I feel. I don't want to wave my wii mote to slash instead of just pressing B. It's not like Zelda recognizes it any differently.

Now RPGs I could see myself using Natal for. I don't need precise controls and it wouldn't be physically exerting. I play games to relax. I work out to work out. If I want to play a game while working out, I'll play something designed around that like Wii sports. I don't want to sweat to Final Fantasy.

Fighting games.... well... fighting games are more intense than real life fights. So I don't see how motion capture could be "better". They could do something... like Wii sports boxing, and it could be cool, but it'd be a different genre.

Driving... yeah I dunno. I use a steering wheel, I don't see how pretending to use a steering wheel is better. Saves space or something? Dunno.

FPS... well I can problems but not many solutions. So I figure... right hand aims gun, left hand aims camera... and you can shoot great. I don't see how you'd walk. The accuracy... well, it'll be like PC gamers bitching about controllers.

 

[TheOsyris]

I am just trying to picture the extreme positive.. And here for me it would be Oblivion, Fallout or a Masseffect type of interactive NPC communication driven game using that mylo demo as my visual guide.

 

[Bajaratt]

I am just trying to picture the extreme positive.. And here for me it would be Oblivion, Fallout or a Masseffect type of interactive NPC communication driven game using that mylo demo as my visual guide.

That would be really cool, but then you might have to actually act like how you want your character to act; even if you feel differently. Like, if you just got off a hellish day at work, and are worn out or pissed off, but you need to look pleasant to talk to this NPC, it might back fire. It'd be amazing to see more than smally scripted NPC dialogues though.

Those games still have combat though, and that's where I think Natal wouldn't help the game. I think the best way to implement Natal in that style of game would be to use a controller for the combat, and to use Natal for interacting with NPC's. You can still maintain the emotions(if you can pull them off) and interaction of Natal/Milo, but have the reaction-time and the hardcore capability of the controller when you need it.

 

[Firestreak]

I think it could be better than that. Imagine something like Kings Quest. Things not based around combat rather puzzle solving and exploration...

 

[TheOsyris]

There are hurdles for sure and i have no answer for any of them. I wouldnt want my remote removed at any point for good.. But if they started some type of 1/2 Natal, 1/2 remote game it may lead to bad things.

I just dont know. There are so many positive outlooks for this yet you kinda have to stay even just to not get let down.

 

[Bajaratt]

I'm not sure how it'd lead to bad things, but it'd definitely be easier to transition people to a full-natal hardcore game when they're already used to using it for large aspects of their games.

 

[Firestreak]

Did anyone else play those old adventure PC games when they were little? There was this era where they were the thing. I remember playing Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade... Hugo 2: whodunnit, Kings Quest, Quest for Glory, ext..

I would like to play those old exploration type games that are extinct now.

Shit, imagine a Star Trek game in Natal. You could be captain, and just talk to your crew and give them orders. Or if you walk around and get near a computer then you can control it with motion control. Any phase fights would have to be on rails... and you couldn't control the ship and all of its functions manually alone, but you can't in star trek anyway really. There are steering controls, and tactical controls and science controls separate.