Braydon said:
better necro had paid up then i waste my time reading 8 pages of ppl in denial.
better necro had paid up then i waste my time reading 8 pages of ppl in denial.
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Skaw your cracking me up just admit that you could possibly be wrong.
So everybody here actually is an angel and plays by the rules?
:?:
:?:
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Just to clean up all the tangents.
1) In Konschat Highlands. As far as I know, from leveling Leather crafting with four Freinds, Ezikiel included and Bonecrafting on 2, there are 2 rams each on 10 minute cycles that have a 3-6 second margin of error. You can kill one and kill another 2 minutes later wait 8 minutes and kill the first again 2 minutes later kill the second, etc... I have indeed gotten them close enough to have killed on and seen the other on widescan as well.(2 Tremor Rams in the Widescan list) I have not seen 2 alive at the same time however, and I will not comment on La Theine.
2) Daggers: Depending on your beliefs weather or not you want to do your job as a melee or a freak thief looking to prove to yourself you are a Damage dealer.... With a Dagger in main hand, as a Warrior sub, if you were to match that dagger in your off hand with the same delay, you would get a 10%-15%(It's still debated) haste benefit with subbing Ninja After level 50. Assume the following:
Dagger 1: Damage 25, Delay 195. TP = 5Tp/Hit
Dagger 2: Damage 25, Delay 195.
Total Weapon Delay: 390
Ninja sub Bonus: 331.5 - 351 (10 TP/Hit.Pair)
TP in 6,000 Units: 170 - 180 TP.
Damage from 17-18 Swing Sets at ~roughly 40-60 damage a swing set: 680 - 1,080. +WS.
Dagger 1: Damage 25, Delay 195. Tp = 5Tp/Hit
Dagger 2: Damage 21, Delay 150. Tp = 5Tp/Hit
Total Weapon Delay: 345
Ninja sub Bonus: 293.25 - 310.5 (10 TP/Hit.Pair)
TP in 6,000 Units: 193.26 - 204.6
Damage from 19-20 Swing Sets a ~roughly 38-56 damage a swing set + 1-20 damage from Wind Effect: 741 - 1,520. +WS.
The thing that makes this dagger particularly good is it's speed. It's the Damage per Unit of time that makes it worth it's weight. Even in a Single handed Weapon Scenario, it shines. Imagine this Dagger with a full set of Hecatomb Armor... Suddenly the added slow effect doesn't seem all that bad...
Daggers:
Blau Dolch: Delay 175 @ 22 damage. (7.42 DPS)
the catch: Before 100TP it is a 28 Base Damage Dagger with an added Hidden effect of +16 Attack.
Martial Knife: Delay 186 @ 23 damage. (7.42 DPS)
The Catch: It adds an additional 100TP Bonus to your WS.
Stylet: Delay 195 @ 25 damage (7.69 DPS)
The Catch: When used in a SATA settup, all it's stat bonuses basically promote the Dagger to be a 31 Base Damage dagger, as well it modifies All Thief Weaponskills based on Dex. (I.E. It's a 33 Base damage dagger used in SATA+Shark Bite)
Harpe: Delay 210 @ 29 damage (8.29 DPS)
Awesome Base Damage Dagger with No BS....orspeed for that matter.
Sirocco kukri: 150 @ 21 damage (8.40 DSP)
Out preforms all daggers Except the Perseus Harp and Mandau. If you Include the Added Effect, you out preform any and all Daggers except the Mandau. Please note you will accumulate faster, or more TP in the meantime.
Carry on.
1) In Konschat Highlands. As far as I know, from leveling Leather crafting with four Freinds, Ezikiel included and Bonecrafting on 2, there are 2 rams each on 10 minute cycles that have a 3-6 second margin of error. You can kill one and kill another 2 minutes later wait 8 minutes and kill the first again 2 minutes later kill the second, etc... I have indeed gotten them close enough to have killed on and seen the other on widescan as well.(2 Tremor Rams in the Widescan list) I have not seen 2 alive at the same time however, and I will not comment on La Theine.
2) Daggers: Depending on your beliefs weather or not you want to do your job as a melee or a freak thief looking to prove to yourself you are a Damage dealer.... With a Dagger in main hand, as a Warrior sub, if you were to match that dagger in your off hand with the same delay, you would get a 10%-15%(It's still debated) haste benefit with subbing Ninja After level 50. Assume the following:
Dagger 1: Damage 25, Delay 195. TP = 5Tp/Hit
Dagger 2: Damage 25, Delay 195.
Total Weapon Delay: 390
Ninja sub Bonus: 331.5 - 351 (10 TP/Hit.Pair)
TP in 6,000 Units: 170 - 180 TP.
Damage from 17-18 Swing Sets at ~roughly 40-60 damage a swing set: 680 - 1,080. +WS.
Dagger 1: Damage 25, Delay 195. Tp = 5Tp/Hit
Dagger 2: Damage 21, Delay 150. Tp = 5Tp/Hit
Total Weapon Delay: 345
Ninja sub Bonus: 293.25 - 310.5 (10 TP/Hit.Pair)
TP in 6,000 Units: 193.26 - 204.6
Damage from 19-20 Swing Sets a ~roughly 38-56 damage a swing set + 1-20 damage from Wind Effect: 741 - 1,520. +WS.
The thing that makes this dagger particularly good is it's speed. It's the Damage per Unit of time that makes it worth it's weight. Even in a Single handed Weapon Scenario, it shines. Imagine this Dagger with a full set of Hecatomb Armor... Suddenly the added slow effect doesn't seem all that bad...
Daggers:
Blau Dolch: Delay 175 @ 22 damage. (7.42 DPS)
the catch: Before 100TP it is a 28 Base Damage Dagger with an added Hidden effect of +16 Attack.
Martial Knife: Delay 186 @ 23 damage. (7.42 DPS)
The Catch: It adds an additional 100TP Bonus to your WS.
Stylet: Delay 195 @ 25 damage (7.69 DPS)
The Catch: When used in a SATA settup, all it's stat bonuses basically promote the Dagger to be a 31 Base Damage dagger, as well it modifies All Thief Weaponskills based on Dex. (I.E. It's a 33 Base damage dagger used in SATA+Shark Bite)
Harpe: Delay 210 @ 29 damage (8.29 DPS)
Awesome Base Damage Dagger with No BS....orspeed for that matter.
Sirocco kukri: 150 @ 21 damage (8.40 DSP)
Out preforms all daggers Except the Perseus Harp and Mandau. If you Include the Added Effect, you out preform any and all Daggers except the Mandau. Please note you will accumulate faster, or more TP in the meantime.
Carry on.
Eh, DPS ratings aren't really all that useful to determine what to use in this game, Phraust. Damage ranges are relatively large, despite the weapon type, and you often aren't going to hit for your high end all the time. Higher damage on weapons doubles as having a higher minimum damage as well, which pushes what your average damage in your range up.
You could have a 10/60 weapon, but you aren't going to be doing any damage, much less punch through some defense and vitality to see anything over 0 at the end game, and 1 damage more on a weapon doesn't equate out to 1 damage more dealt.
You could have a 10/60 weapon, but you aren't going to be doing any damage, much less punch through some defense and vitality to see anything over 0 at the end game, and 1 damage more on a weapon doesn't equate out to 1 damage more dealt.
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Well None the less, a Thief's role later on is to set up a Skillchain for the BLMs to dothier Duty. The Sirrocco Kukri makes that job so much easier. [In the Off Hand]
If you really want to have a stand on the knife I suggest you level the job that uses it. It would clear up some of the beliefs you tend to hold about the Thief job, and the Weapons we find to be best for the situation, and on that note it is a widely accepted understanding that every situation the only thing you can factor in is the need for fast TP. Thieves were looking for a Device that enabled them to fill in the gaps in thier abilities. And for those thieves that weren't blind, this Knife alone solved a lot of the problems over all.
From a Damage/Time perspective, it surpasses all knives, enabling both more oprotunities for Triple and double attacks to fire, an just a good ratio(in my opinion an unfair ratio) of Damage to Delay.
From the perspective of us getting Hosed on Sky armor and cursed gear, if you wear a full set of Hecatomb armor and wield this dagger chances are you will be quite the formidable opponent. Most of the damage calculations are basted on Str to Vit, and Attack to Defence. Where yes, there is a 'Base Damage' There is no 'Kernal' for Defence to challenge. [As far as i know]
From the perspective of Thieves getting hosed on hitting 0's, no matter what, it happens inevitably... And to Have at leats some damage occur, is nice. You fight Genbu for 20 minutes to an hour, those little 10-20 damage Wind hits add up.
Even the fact it's Rare/Ex was a nice little boon. Go watch all the none thief Jobs Camping thief knife. [don't give me that bullshit about that they are doing it cause thief is a secondary job, or they got a Thief friend etc... it's bullshit. If they had a thief Job, they would use it for it's TH-II, and the same if they had a friend.] It removes the profit mongers from just being there for personal gain.
Anyways I kinda got off on a rant there.
Point being, from a thief's perspective and from those that understand the thief job(Belive me, it's fewer than you think) this knife is definately in the top 3 combat knives Next to the Stylet, and Mandau, and is the #1 Offhand Knife next to the Blau Dolch.
If you really want to have a stand on the knife I suggest you level the job that uses it. It would clear up some of the beliefs you tend to hold about the Thief job, and the Weapons we find to be best for the situation, and on that note it is a widely accepted understanding that every situation the only thing you can factor in is the need for fast TP. Thieves were looking for a Device that enabled them to fill in the gaps in thier abilities. And for those thieves that weren't blind, this Knife alone solved a lot of the problems over all.
From a Damage/Time perspective, it surpasses all knives, enabling both more oprotunities for Triple and double attacks to fire, an just a good ratio(in my opinion an unfair ratio) of Damage to Delay.
From the perspective of us getting Hosed on Sky armor and cursed gear, if you wear a full set of Hecatomb armor and wield this dagger chances are you will be quite the formidable opponent. Most of the damage calculations are basted on Str to Vit, and Attack to Defence. Where yes, there is a 'Base Damage' There is no 'Kernal' for Defence to challenge. [As far as i know]
From the perspective of Thieves getting hosed on hitting 0's, no matter what, it happens inevitably... And to Have at leats some damage occur, is nice. You fight Genbu for 20 minutes to an hour, those little 10-20 damage Wind hits add up.
Even the fact it's Rare/Ex was a nice little boon. Go watch all the none thief Jobs Camping thief knife. [don't give me that bullshit about that they are doing it cause thief is a secondary job, or they got a Thief friend etc... it's bullshit. If they had a thief Job, they would use it for it's TH-II, and the same if they had a friend.] It removes the profit mongers from just being there for personal gain.
Anyways I kinda got off on a rant there.
Point being, from a thief's perspective and from those that understand the thief job(Belive me, it's fewer than you think) this knife is definately in the top 3 combat knives Next to the Stylet, and Mandau, and is the #1 Offhand Knife next to the Blau Dolch.
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/cheer phraust
Damn I need you to write my chemistry papers.
Damn I need you to write my chemistry papers.
I guess the wound hasn't healed from when Skaw made you look like a dumbass, huh?
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_Neosquall_ said:
Was that directed at me?
I always liked Skaw as far as I can remember.
Phraust said:
I believe he was talking to Ugotjacked.
Yeah I was talking to Ugotjacked, hehe. Sorry for the confusion.
Good post there though, Phraust. I just know that at the end, those dreaded 0's occur more often than wanted, and that equipping anything with less damage than whats readily availble, albeit faster delay, is pretty much double-bladed sword. You're lowering your minimum damage range, so those 0's are going to jump up a bit, even if you are gaining TP at a faster rate on those hits that do damage.
The way I figure it is that damage dealt from overcoming VIT is factored by STR along with your weapons listed damage. Thats why even though you can have a moderate weapon in regards to damage, the less STR you have, the chances of you connecting for a decent amount amount of damage is nill. Viceversa, all the STR in the world isn't going to make a 1 Damage weapon more powerful beyond a point. The two work together to beat out VIT.
And I can attest to greedy people. Spent 3 weeks camping Morbolger because of that reason.
The way I figure it is that damage dealt from overcoming VIT is factored by STR along with your weapons listed damage. Thats why even though you can have a moderate weapon in regards to damage, the less STR you have, the chances of you connecting for a decent amount amount of damage is nill. Viceversa, all the STR in the world isn't going to make a 1 Damage weapon more powerful beyond a point. The two work together to beat out VIT.
And I can attest to greedy people. Spent 3 weeks camping Morbolger because of that reason.
Darkdante said:
Doesn't make tele claiming alright. When you use third party to get what you want ingame it's about as low as you can go. I would definately put this underneath MPKing for claim for sure.
The only thing even comparable is gilbuyers and christ knows none will ever fess up to that.
Darkdante said:
Dunno about everyone else, but I even disabled the Party TP plugin on my windower.
I have NEVER mpk'd anyone for any reason.
I have never bought gil.
I have never done anything to get kicked out of a party. (there is that one time Krono disbanded a party I made after I gave him leader whilst I was afk)
I guess that makes me an angel that plays by the rules.
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Skaw's posts in the same thread... enough said. When Phraust points out that hes dead wrong he seems to agree that yea that knife is decent but wont admit that yep hes dead wrong. I smell troll.
And dont call me a cheerleader if anyone is a cheerleader it would be you who is constantly sucking skaws dick ingame and off game.
Ugotjacked said:
I don't even talk to Neosquall. Ever. I think I partied with him once.. like, a year and a half ago.
And I wouldn't say I'm wrong. Infact, I am right to an extent. The lower damage will pop up more 0s, compared to using something equal level with higher damage, unless offset by a truck of Strength(Hecatomb.) But atleast Phraust backed up the knifes defense with more than "THE PARSERS SAY SO!!!!!!!!1"
So did Ezi.
Both of them totally pwned you on the subject, and you still wont admit you're wrong.
And you flamed Elemmire for going on exactly like you are now....
Both of them totally pwned you on the subject, and you still wont admit you're wrong.
And you flamed Elemmire for going on exactly like you are now....
TiyaKelth said:
Do people listen to you? Do you even listen to yourself?
Ezi only said it's the best offhand because of the delay and the all-the-time 1-20 wind. I even asked why not use the Bart because of the higher base damage and the high water damage effect.
Then he just listed a bunch of knives(with no comparison between them) and said that the parsers prove it out performs, yet didn't show any links. So theres no way I know if the TP gain will offset the lower damage/no beneficial stats to SA, TA, or Weaponskill damage.
Phraust gave proof. So yes, I'm wrong about the dagger.
If you're calling me out on being wrong that you'll see more 0's with the knife due to a decrease in minimum damage for your damage range, you're a retard, because it will occur more often(even though you will do atleast 1 from the wind, you'll gain 0 TP on that strike.) It's simple game mechanics, any melee with knowledge about the damage system could tell you that can happen. And again, I even said you can avoid it with a good deal of strength.
Ezikiel said:
If you had read that post of Ezi's instead of skimming over it, and then going on about totally unrelated things trying to make Ezi look bad, you could have saved Phraust a lot of time making those posts.