New jobs, Valkurm, PLing, Blue Mages

First off, thank you Shaidalyn for seeing the point I was trying to make about PLing the new jobs. It's not that I don't think the players know what to do, it's that I don't think they know what to do with those jobs, because they're rushing through their levels, without even enough time to -make- mistakes to learn from, when at a level where making mistakes isn't really all that bad. I have no problems with Power-Leveling people that know how to do their role. Like if I take a BLM or WHM through dunes, I wouldn't mind being powerleveled, since I've performed both those roles (nuking and main healing) in parties before, so I know what to do there. (Granted, being Powerleveled while a white mage -really- sucks -.-) but BLU, COR and PUP aren't the typical jobs, there aren't really any other jobs that are that close to it so people can't really say "Well I leveled suchandsuch job, and since it's the same as BLU, I don't need to learn anything new". I guess maybe BST is somewhat related to BLU, but about as much as COR is related to BRD, or PUP is related to SMN.

I didn't say that Blue Mages complaining -must- be gilbuyers, although I admit from what I typed up, it wasn't that clear what I meant and could probably be interpreted that way. What I meant is people that are too impatient to actually go out and get their abilities, which takes time to do, much like farming or hunting rare drops, probably are used to having things handed to them (ie buying gil, getting gil from other people) if they've absolutely -never- had to do the same thing before for their equipment or spells. Someone who's never had to farm before because they've been able to just buy everything, or get it for free, wouldn't want to play a job where they can't just buy what they need. So maybe just forget about that comment and replace it with "Gilbuyers are bad Blue Mages". Better?

Maybe I -don't- know how to perform in a party as a Blue Mage, but I understand how the job can work, and the way I solo it, would be the same way it would work in a party. Damage dealing jobs don't exactly have to change roles much when they go from soloing to partying, aside from adjusting to prevent stealing hate. Maybe making an assumption that the current Blue Mages are bad was wrong, but I've seen terrible people in the dunes before. Red Mages that run up with a sword and whack the mob (not that that's a problem in itself, but when that's -all- they do, even when the tank needs a Cure, it's a problem). Black Mages that overnuke, then blame everyone else when they die. Maybe I just got stuck in a "I can do things better than them, and have" attitude, and assumed that the Blue Mages I was hearing about in the dunes were part of the majority.

My LS leader (one of them anyways), Zerayla, was talking about being in a party with a Blue Mage that couldn't deal damage, and I figured with as many people rushing for the job as there are, that players like that wouldn't be uncommon. And like I said in my first post, being asked to main heal as a BLU/RDM -by- a Blue Mage, shows there's probably very little understanding of the job by a lot of people. From its ability set, healing anyone but themselves isn't really an option, and being asked to main heal over a rdm, or a blm/whm, just isn't right. None of those (rdm, blm/whm, blu/rdm) are made for healing, but both the rdm and blm/whm have better healing skill, and the blm/whm definately has more MP, more than likely.
 
I've got to agree with Zaltana on the whole PL'ing newbies thing coming to haunt us all later...we're experiencing it now even. But by the same token I did PL an LS member's party because they had no healers at all for their level thanks to them all leveling new jobs. It worked out though because the one newbie in the party was so bad he got replaced by a long-time player with several 60+ jobs...no chance he was a newb lol.
 
Oh god Zalt taking up shorthand makes me cry. >< Noooooobicorn!

Really though, anyone who participates in PLing this hoarde of new jobs that no one barely knows anything about, are hereby giving up any and all rights they have to whine about high-level noobs...because really, by PLing people on the new jobs no one knows much about, you're basically just prmoting high-level noobism, y'know?
 
I don't really think it will be a problem... Hell, when I started BLU, no one really knew wtf a BLU was supposed to do, and I figured it out in the very first exp party I joined... Currently lvl 27 with every spell I can have up to 30, and aiming for 32 today.

Really, learning blue magic is not as hard as people make it sound <.<; Pre-16 it takes a while, but after that you learn them in maybe a try or two with capped Blue Magic, unless your luck just plain-out sucks. I'd quite honestly be more worried about Fafnir suddenly popping in Valkurm and eating everyone alive <.<;

Either way, there will *ALWAYS* be some noobish BLU's, COR's and PUP's at higher lvls, just like how there will always be some noobish people of any other job, PL'd or not.
 
So, since I was a warrior, ninja and red mage on Hades, it would be ok for me to be power leveled with those jobs just because I already know how to use them properly?

(This isnt a request. Just a question.)
 
What is the frikin' point of knowing your job fully if everyone wants the same spells in the end...

RDM- Refresh all mages, Dispel and stay in that corner and help heal!
BRD- Mages: Ballads, Melee: Acc+Pwr Ups and run back and forth to keep them up. Plus, help heal!
SMN- Fenrir Buffs, Stoneskin, AA and stay in that corner and help heal! o, you can DD w/Avatar too...

Plus what is being said here is what was being said when NIN and the other jobs came out. Look where NIN is now...

Taking about BLU, i'm 23 and i have all the avialable spells yet. Plus i learned <Bombtoss> and <Screwdriver> respectively at lvl 16 (those are lvl 28 and 26 spells). Learning a spell 12 lvls above yours is something that makes you look forward to learning more. The BLU Job is addictive!

How i sell myself when I go to PTs? I'm a support job. I deal lots of damage and can heal myself and my PT. That way i help both Melee and Healers. The WHM felt secure on when to go heal because i did <Healing Breeze> and helped Heal whenever was needed. I did good dmg with <Bludgeon> and enfeebled the mob with <Wild Oats>. When the puller got a link (he brought 2 Pugils) I slept the other with <Sheep Song>. The overall feel was that of an Uber Job waiting to be Nerfed. I hope that is not the future of the new jobs.

I won't even get started with COR and their 450+ EXP with <Corsair's Roll>... powerful Job, powerful job indeed.
 
Negorissimo said:
How i sell myself when I go to PTs? I'm a support job. I deal lots of damage and can heal myself and my PT. That way i help both Melee and Healers. The WHM felt secure on when to go heal because i did <Healing Breeze> and helped Heal whenever was needed. I did good dmg with <Bludgeon> and enfeebled the mob with <Wild Oats>. When the puller got a link (he brought 2 Pugils) I slept the other with <Sheep Song>. The overall feel was that of an Uber Job waiting to be Nerfed. I hope that is not the future of the new jobs.

I won't even get started with COR and their 450+ EXP with <Corsair's Roll>... powerful Job, powerful job indeed.
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Yup, all of the new jobs are powerfull. Got 5,700 exp an hour in Qufim and Yuhtunga with PLD SMN BLU COR... got from 20 to 27 in a couple of hours.

And yeah, I hope we won't get nerfed, but I think its inevitable (sp?) <.<;
 
Uzor said:
Yup, all of the new jobs are powerfull. Got 5,700 exp an hour in Qufim and Yuhtunga with PLD SMN BLU COR... got from 20 to 27 in a couple of hours.

And yeah, I hope we won't get nerfed, but I think its inevitable (sp?) <.<;
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Only if you all keep complaining and someone from SE happens to stumble upon this thread by some miracelous, near non-existant chance.
 
I powerleveled some of my mates who are high leveled at quite a few jobs. Mainly i seen Puppet Master develope from an early stage. It was level 9, 14 and 20 to 30. The Pamama would die pretty easily and then there is the 11 minutes or so a puppet master has to wait before they can bring out another puppet. The person i PL'ed to 30 who is the same Puppet Master, eventually got a better feel for the job, and the doll never died. Of caorse at a higher level the doll was able to do more.

Yuhtanga jungle (however you say it) the set up was this.

PUP/WAR
BLU/NIN
COR/I don't know what it was
SMN/WHM
RDM/BLM
NIN/WAR
[RDM/BLM PL]

((PUP/WAR)) (Hand-to-Hand weapon for the record) seemingly can generate alot of enmity, and actually hold it, and take alot of abuse. With only the PT's healing support. Yes many a time i would watch them walk on their own.
(The PUP always was the tank or the secondary in whatever PT it was in. Before the COR showed up (who never tanked for the sake of claearity for what i am saying), there was a WAR there, and before that a NIN (when there was 2 NIN's in the setup. The PUP was also pulling. Not with the puppet, but with his self. He always came back in tact, and this is probably part of the reason why the Puppet was always there now.


((BLU/NIN)) Over the span of 7 levels i watched this guy. I can swear i tossed him a 'cure 1', 3 or 4 times total when i found a scratch in his HP metre. He too took part in tanking once a blue moon. At level 26 on in Yutunga (the east side of the jungle) That is damn good.

((COR/?)) I won't lie and say i understand this job. It melee'd non stop and did it's things i don't understand. in terms of developments i'm clueless. Maybe it has to do with not looking into this job class, and not partying with one at this point of time.

((NIN & SMN & RDM)) Only difference is, these guys have got to party with, and witness the many scenes of other people's learning curves and outcomes, before the tackle becoming the job. That is a very clear vision, compared to reading and trying out the new stuff. What makes the 3 new jobs so great at this point of time, is the freedom to make mistakes and learn the job freely (the fun way of playing the game). When the do's and don't are on the table. You can look back and see what you have learned from you're earliest days of playing to now.

Every job is given their capabilities for a reason. Simply use it, and you'll know your role in a party. Over do it, and there will be downtime. Use it unwisely and the battles will be long and deadly.

At high levels there is no downtime unless there is a slip up. At low levels there is no choice but to over do it, and rest inbetween every few battles. Power leveling eliminates this, and does not mean someone will miss out what they are capable of doing. It means you don't have to stare at the screen for 3 or so minutes, doing nothing. What the players do miss out on, are those death defying battles that end off with the Party in a critical state. Not good when it happens too much, but can be fun at times.

In this 'low level' PT's case, it was when the mages and SMN were resting, the battle would continue, and in all cases include everyones partake. It was so good just like in the higher levels, i wish i was able to drop an MB.

The PUP tanked, the NIN tanked, and the BLU tanked a little, and yes, the PL'RDM tanked, until the mob was provoked.

This very thread displays players who claim to have had smashing success in their level up parties comprised with COR, PUP, and BLU. I myself have seen such greatness before my very eyes.

I took out the downtime, and the playing experience remained very constant. I cannot kill the mob, but i watched the mobs drop like flies.
 
I personally like these novelty parties. Some, such as my recent one with five blue mages and one white mage, worked out really well, and even when we switched out one of the BLUs with a PUP the party went really well. Although I hope that not every party in the Dunes and beyond will be like that, it's fun to try these things out. With the BLUs playing multiple roles(DD, Tank, etc.) you get to see what really works and what fails horribly. IMO, maybe later BLU will be an effective tank when Metallic Body and Cocoon become more advanced.
 
like uzor said, its inevitable that a nerf will come. i mean seriously. the last 2 parties i had(which lasted many hours each time) was comprised of 4 blu, a healer, and a voker. it was non stop. blu blast through all mobs very quick. in my opinion, a blu manaburn will put blm burns to shame
 
Powerlevelling is not that much of a damper on learning. Sure it takes less time, but if you can't figure out how to play a job after a few fights it probably won't sink in after 100. All pling does is speed shit up a little bit so you don't waste forever. All jobs can do pretty much anything before level 30. Once you get higher than that then you should really be falling into your place in a party and thats when PLing might be harmful.
 
Umm... XBox 360 has brought out a few players who have never played before (or have but are starting over). How quickly would you invite a Rank10 12BLU/6WHATEVERTHEFUCKTHEYWANTTOSUB over a Rank1 12WHM without a sub?
 
MajorHavoc said:
Umm... XBox 360 has brought out a few players who have never played before (or have but are starting over). How quickly would you invite a Rank10 12BLU/6WHATEVERTHEFUCKTHEYWANTTOSUB over a Rank1 12WHM without a sub?
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Sorry I hit submit instead of preview... Anyways, there are others looking for parties I think that many of the lowbie "New Job" players are overlooking the fact that there ARE new people on the server. In which case, PL'ing can be a bad, BAD thing.
 
You can break the trend and level a different job. You shouldn't complain about so many people leveling the new jobs when you are doing the exact same thing yourself.
 
Zaltana said:
true as that statement may be, think about the other half of the equasion. the noobs that are getting a free ride cause of the PL. i for one agree that all the PLsthat have shown up in the dunes will come back to haunt us later. while im certain the old schoolers that are lvling the new jobs will be more then able to adjust. but i worry that we're gonna see a new wave of lvl 50+ players that still dont know how to do something as simple as lining up sata. i invited a lvl 60 thf once that couldnt sata properly to save his life (and yes he got picked off quite often).
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hows this ish? :biggrin:
 
--PLs. I don't think they hurt anyone in the dunes. Believe it or not, I would say that they can even *help* the learning white mage. As most know, I was a fresh out've the box white mage. This being back when your party consisted of an insane amount of warriors. The PLs I had guided me into doing my job without it being so overwhelming. Learning basic game commands and learning to focus on entire parties can be difficult fresh out've the box. I don't see where this ever caused me to suffer "later on."

--Job Police. This is a time where it's okay to experiment with playing. Give it a while before you say that every "Blue Mage" is a tank, a healer, or whatever way your ideal blue mage should be played. If people are having fun, I would say that is awesome. I remember being in an LS conversation with someone about a BLM/NIN and he was prepaired to honestly disband if the person did not change their sub to the traditional white mage. I told him to go ahead and give it a try because of the NIN's Int bonus and shadows. End results was that although unorthadox the EXP was great and the BLM performed even better than he could've imagined.

--I plan to try out COR. It seems to be not as popular as BLU and perhaps far more upkeep than a BLU, but omg the CS for it was awesome! And to top that off.. I'm not reading the "guides" so if you play with me I'm more than likely not going to play to your expectations and I'm going to most likely change my technique five times over before I find out how I want to play it.

Just bare in mind.. there is more than one way to handle a noob. Not invite them and shun them away from your vet crowd. Invite them and smile when they do something thats "Omfgwtf!" Or, realize that these guys are no different than when you started playing and offer them a hand and a few pro-tips to keep them just as interested as you once were.
 
Sandria said:
--PLs. I don't think they hurt anyone in the dunes. Believe it or not, I would say that they can even *help* the learning white mage. As most know, I was a fresh out've the box white mage. This being back when your party consisted of an insane amount of warriors. The PLs I had guided me into doing my job without it being so overwhelming. Learning basic game commands and learning to focus on entire parties can be difficult fresh out've the box. I don't see where this ever caused me to suffer "later on."

--Job Police. This is a time where it's okay to experiment with playing. Give it a while before you say that every "Blue Mage" is a tank, a healer, or whatever way your ideal blue mage should be played. If people are having fun, I would say that is awesome. I remember being in an LS conversation with someone about a BLM/NIN and he was prepaired to honestly disband if the person did not change their sub to the traditional white mage. I told him to go ahead and give it a try because of the NIN's Int bonus and shadows. End results was that although unorthadox the EXP was great and the BLM performed even better than he could've imagined.
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Power Leveling -- It's possible that I've just had bad experiences with being power-leveled as a white mage, because I know I've had -no- PLed party where teaching the WHM to heal is really 'encouraged'. There may be a few PLs out there who want to help new WHMs learn to do their job, for for the most part, they're just there as favors to friends who want the quickest exp possible, regardless of how it affects anyone else. I've been in a PLed party in Valkurm as a White Mage, where not only was I unable to heal, because the power-leveler was able to take care of everything before I could, but I was yelled at by the (terrible) party leader for casting Banish instead of Cure. I just ignored them though because casting Cure was a waste of MP in that party. Definately -not- a good 'learning party' for a newly partying white mage, so it was a good thing I had done it before, otherwise I wouldn't know what to expect.

"Job Police" -- Hoping this wasn't directed at me, since I didn't say anything about people experimenting with the new jobs being bad. The only problem I had were with people who were rushing the jobs without taking the time to prepare to do a decent job. Hearing about Blue Mages that deal little to no damage in a party bothered me, which spawned the whole idea for the original post, because I don't want to see a few weeks from now "Blue Mages can't deal damage, I've been in a few parties with them and they suck." I really don't care what people use as their BLU sub, as long as it's not something that'd be near-useless. BLU/RNG or BLU/DRG? What's the point? But I could care less if people use subs that are actually useful. Currently I'm using BLU/RDM, and plan to stay that way, although I've yet to party as my Blue Mage, sticking to soloing for exp and abilities.
 
You're right, honestly. I think I was fortunate at the time. My first PLs (way back when) were mentors. One in particular was just very nice. I think she spent that time to level her healing magic as well as assist new players. Although others were simply wanting to ease me into the job. Going from playing solo to being responcible for 6 party members is no easy task. And not all party leaders are "great".. you get the good with the bad.

The job police is not exactly directed to you in particular. I wouldn't worry about the reputation of the "blue mage" job. It's already earned its respect by many so far. Don't be too concerned with the "bad" ones. The last /sea all I did of Blu came up with over 200 players. That on an off peak time. You will have too many "good ones" struggling for party invites that the "bad ones" will get shuffled along with their flags up until they improve or get lucky.

My concern is just that "what's the point of a blu/rng or a blu/drg" mentality. Don't get me wrong.. the combination prolly does not work. It's when it carries over to "what's the point of a blu/rdm".. You do it because it's fun. I am sure its just a different type of fun that thse other players are having.:)
 
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