New Y/G/K testing...Gekko the best now? Insight Thread.

[Xzerper]

http://www.bluegartrls.com/forum/ffxi-standard-discussion/68018-yuki-gekko-kasha-attack-bonus-testing.html

Read it, and discuss.

 

[Bajaratt]

It never was not the best?

I always considered Gekko to have an attack boost, but an accuracy penalty since it hit harder but missed more than Kasha. Kasha was the reverse, since it missed less often, but didn't hit quite as hard. Good to see numbers to back it up though.

 

[Grandphoenix]

this was the stuff redshift was talking about a month or 2 ago no?

 

[Bajaratt]

No, he was talking about accuracy; this is about attack.

 

[Gunnerx]

My personal thoughts have always been that in merit parties on my SAM, Yuki would DA the most often (maybe luck) and have higher DMG just by that. Gekko would be more consistent with DMG, and i'd usually miss Kasha the most and be least effective.

I personally don't care about other peoples testing because everyone has different gear in different situations and what works for someone may not work for someone else... etc

 

[Diabllos]

Needs much further testing. The only supposed difference is a very minor one, and is down to a %DEF ignored, not accuracy, DA and other shit.

Baj/Gunner: You're experiencing what's called the placebo effect.

 

[Bajaratt]

Needs much further testing. The only supposed difference is a very minor one, and is down to a %DEF ignored, not accuracy, DA and other shit.

Baj/Gunner: You're experiencing what's called the placebo effect.

So I just willed Gekko to be stronger, and it turns out I was right all along is a "placebo effect"? Awesome, now I'm going to will a naked, horny Angelina Jolie on my bed when I get home form work.

 

[Bladewind]

So I just willed Gekko to be stronger, and it turns out I was right all along is a "placebo effect"? Awesome, now I'm going to will a naked, horny Angelina Jolie on my bed when I get home form work.

Careful now, last time Angelina Jolie got horny, Brad Pitt ended up adopting 4 African kids.

 

[Diabllos]

So I just willed Gekko to be stronger, and it turns out I was right all along is a "placebo effect"? Awesome, now I'm going to will a naked, horny Angelina Jolie on my bed when I get home form work.

It's a common misconception that Gekko is stronger. Then some minor testing comes along that shows an incredibly small difference which may or may not be true (requires extensive testing). Even if it is true, the supposed difference is barely noticeable if noticed at all. This difference between Gekko and Kasha you suggest, with accuracy and attack boost is most probably total fluke. Hence, you're experiencing the placebo effect by perceiving it as stronger, when it's not (perhaps marginely if this data is true, but even then nothing is suggested about accuracy).

 

[Bajaratt]

It's a common misconception that Gekko is stronger.

Obviously not, according to these results. Hell, most SAM's use Gekko when they're not trying to skillchain on anything, and many that I've talked to over the years did it because they thought gekko was stronger too. It seems to be a misconception that you know what you're talking about.

Then some minor testing comes along that shows an incredibly small difference which may or may not be true (requires extensive testing). Even if it is true, the supposed difference is barely noticeable if noticed at all.

Looking at the results posted, there's a hell of a lot more than a "slight difference" in them. Yes, it'll require more testing to mete out a more accurate figure, but he's got a decent sample already of weapon skills and they're all backing up his original post.

This difference between Gekko and Kasha you suggest, with accuracy and attack boost is most probably total fluke.Hence, you're experiencing the placebo effect by perceiving it as stronger, when it's not (perhaps marginely if this data is true, but even then nothing is suggested about accuracy).

It's not a placebo effect when you're right. Hell, isn't not even a placebo effect when your opinion has absolutely no influence on the outcome. Me thinking there was a difference doesn't change math equations or facts. Don't use terms that you have no idea what they mean, especially when they have no application to what's being discussed.

I had a theory, and it looks like I was right all along. There is no placebo effect at all; that's called being correct. I was wrong about the attack boost as the mechanic for Gekko being stronger; but that was because I didn't know/care about all of the other crap in the damage calculations, so an attack boost was the easiest explanation that carried the same meaning.

I don't even know why you're trying to demonize my theory. I didn't go around yelling at everybody that Gekko was the best; it was just a personal observation that I'd made years ago and it has held true ever since. Now, there's hard evidence to back up my theory; so I was right, get over it and yourself.

 

[ds083roadkill]

(stuff)Now, there's hard evidence to back up my theory; so I was right, get over it and yourself.

this may work with underage girlfriends, but not on the intranets.

bitch bitch bitch your wrong bitch bitch bitch bad grammer bitch bitch bitch thread lock

 

[Diabllos]

I always considered Gekko to have an attack boost, but an accuracy penalty since it hit harder but missed more than Kasha. Kasha was the reverse, since it missed less often, but didn't hit quite as hard. Good to see numbers to back it up though.

This was wrong.

Needs much further testing. The only supposed difference is a very minor one, and is down to a %DEF ignored, not accuracy, DA and other shit. Even if it is true, the supposed difference is barely noticeable if noticed at all.

This was right.

Now, there's hard evidence to back up my theory; so I was right, get over it and yourself.

This was wrong.

And by the way, you can cut the childish cute-talking. It's wasted on me, and nobody's going to rep you up for it anymore.

 

[Bajaratt]

This was wrong.

Wrong in that it was a different aspect of the damage formula, but that's irrelevant because I already explain why I said attack boost. The only important part was that I was still right about Gekko doing more damage.

This was right.

Right about the mechanics, wrong about the "barely noticeable" part; which is the important part.

This was wrong.

Only if you can't read. I predicted years ago that Gekko was more powerful, now there's evidence that supports my prediction. It takes a special breed of idiot to not see that as being correct; even if it's not a massive boost, it's still correct.

And by the way, you can cut the childish cute-talking. It's wasted on me, and nobody's going to rep you up for it anymore.

I guess I should start using smaller words, maybe that'll work.

 

[Diabllos]

I guess I should start using smaller words, maybe that'll work.

Smaller words? I meant this part:

so I was right, get over it and yourself.

Anyway, I think what you're missing is that this is far from conclusive evidence.

You mentioned that there was an accuracy difference in Kasha/Gekko, which is false. If you think you're able to make that kind of observation which turns out to be wrong, what makes you think you're able of claiming that one is stronger than the other? You haven't done tests yourself, you've just made random observations which lead you to believe one is stronger. (The same observations you used to claim this accuracy difference.)

In fact, weren't you the same person who claimed YGK could crit too?

 

[Uzor]

Bajaratt never mentioned an acc boost to Gekko. He said it did more damage, be it through attack or otherwise.

I don't see why you're arguing with his opinions stating he's wrong when you don't have any proof to back up your claims anyway, Diabllos, when there's evidence in that thread (albeit very small evidence, and I agree more testing is needed). However, as you have no evidence at all, you should go gather some yourself instead of whining about it.

 

[Diabllos]

Bajaratt never mentioned an acc boost to Gekko.

I didn't say 'boost', I said difference. And yes, he did. Read.

I always considered Gekko to have an attack boost, but an accuracy penalty since it hit harder but missed more than Kasha.

It's so typical you, lol. It's the "The Sky isn't blue!" "Yes it is.." "I always said it was blue!" instance, yet again.

I don't see why you're arguing with his opinions stating he's wrong when you don't have any proof to back up your claims anyway, Diabllos, when there's evidence in that thread. However, as you have no evidence at all, you should go gather some yourself

He's wrong about the accuracy, and he's not in the position to claim one 'always has been stronger' than the other, until further testing has been done. It's not up to me to provide testing against it. YGK always have had the exact same mods, that's my evidence. I'm not claiming that this new evidence is all wrong, but it's certainly not certain yet.

 

[Bajaratt]

Smaller words? I meant this part:

You still need to get over yourself. I still don't even get why you're trying to demonize this whole new batch of testing or my long-held opinions on the weapon skills. I wasn't even bragging about my opinion being proved right, so your panties couldn't have gotten in a knot over that. Obviously I'm not the only one who made the same observation(look in this thread, even), I'd wager most SAM's did, since Gekko's pretty much the only thing they ever use when not trying to skill chain.

Anyway, I think what you're missing is that this is far from conclusive evidence.

Considering all of the testing so far has shown that gekko is more powerful, it's incredibly difficult to believe that he's just been having bad luck with Kasha/Yukikaze and that more testing is going to bring them right back up.

You mentioned that there was an accuracy difference in Kasha/Gekko, which is false. If you think you're able to make that kind of observation which turns out to be wrong, what makes you think you're able of claiming that one is stronger than the other?

You can not be serious. I can't make any observations of merit if I've ever been wrong about something before?

You haven't done tests yourself, you've just made random observations which lead you to believe one is stronger. (The same observations you used to claim this accuracy difference.)

Yeah, I did make those observations, but they weren't random. It was a trend that I'd noticed playing samurai for so long. Just because I might(hey, this requires further testing!) be wrong about one trend, doesn't mean that my observations about any other trends are automatically invalid.

e's wrong about the accuracy, and he's not in the position to claim one 'always has been stronger' than the other, until further testing has been done. It's not up to me to provide testing against it. YGK always have had the exact same mods, that's my evidence. I'm not claiming that this new evidence is all wrong, but it's certainly not certain yet.

Ah, the cop out. "I can't believe someone else was correct about something, so it can't be right; but I'm not going to get off my ass and actually prove it wrong." Yeah, they have a burden of proof to show that Gekko is stronger; but just sticking your fingers in your ears(or your head up your ass) and saying "la la la, needs way more testing, la la la;" is neither an effective rebuttal nor is even remotely useful.

I'm loving the blatant morph in your argument since I shut you down earlier. First, it's a "placebo effect" which doesn't even make sense that it could have happened. Now the difference is either not there at all or so slight it's nothing to care about and I'm still oh so wrong even though one of my long-held beliefs on these weapon skills is being proven right by new testing. Yes, more testing is needed, but you're completely dismissing the initial testing, which is far from insignificant. At this point, that additional testing will most likely only give a more accurate depiction of the defense ignoring that Gekko does; it's nigh impossible that it'll change the results enough for the original conclusions to be invalid.

I'm getting the feeling that you've been going around telling everyone that Kasha/Yukikaze was stronger, or something like that. That's about the only thing I can think of why you'd be so adamant to deny what this new batch of testing is showing. Yes, testing is not complete; but so far all of the testing done has proved the guy's claims to be correct. Seriously, you're not coming off as a conservative player, or someone doubtful of this guy's snake oil idea; you're just coming off as a prick who's refusing to believe what's being reported by someone else and is pointlessly attacking anyone who agrees with him.

 

[Diabllos]

Continuing in PMs to you Baj, this thread doesn't need anymore essays cluttering it up.

 

[Bladewind]

Regardless of actuall WS damage, isn't Gekko the best now because it can make darkness with Rana?

I realise people don't s/c much anymore but i think that's a pretty powerful solo ability.

 

[Uzor]

I didn't say 'boost', I said difference. And yes, he did. Read.It's so typical you, lol. It's the "The Sky isn't blue!" "Yes it is.." "I always said it was blue!" instance, yet again.

He's wrong about the accuracy, and he's not in the position to claim one 'always has been stronger' than the other, until further testing has been done. It's not up to me to provide testing against it. YGK always have had the exact same mods, that's my evidence. I'm not claiming that this new evidence is all wrong, but it's certainly not certain yet.

When I said "He didn't mention an acc boost", I was actually referring to you saying he stated he had an acc. boost.

Oh, and the "The sky is blue!" deal you mentioned was in regards to people claiming I contradicted myself. Please so mention where in the quoted part I contradicted myself. I bet it will be quite hard for you to find.

It's a common misconception that Gekko is stronger. Then some minor testing comes along that shows an incredibly small difference which may or may not be true (requires extensive testing). Even if it is true, the supposed difference is barely noticeable if noticed at all. This difference between Gekko and Kasha you suggest, with accuracy and attack boost is most probably total fluke. Hence, you're experiencing the placebo effect by perceiving it as stronger, when it's not (perhaps marginely if this data is true, but even then nothing is suggested about accuracy).

Again, he didn't say accuracy boost. You did. He said accuracy penalty, there's a huge difference.

And we all know the reason you brought it to PM's, whether you admit to it or not.