Continuing here.
I already made it clear that your childish inuendos and retorts are wasted on me, yet you continued nonetheless. (See: "Get over yourself" and "panties in a knot".) I assume you're trying to impress the readers, so let's continue here to avoid that. You know, so we can actually discuss it like adults.
You said:
You still need to get over yourself. I still don't even get why you're trying to demonize this whole new batch of testing or my long-held opinions on the weapon skills. I wasn't even bragging about my opinion being proved right, so your panties couldn't have gotten in a knot over that. Obviously I'm not the only one who made the same observation(look in this thread, even), I'd wager most SAM's did, since Gekko's pretty much the only thing they ever use when not trying to skill chain.
I don't get how i'm 'demonizing' anything. The evidence is a tiny sample, with 1 player, 1 type of mob, and a span of 3 levels within the mobs. It needs much more testing, and nobody is in the position right now to state that one WS is better than the other in regard to YGK. People can say they suspect one may be stronger, but it's ignorant to blindly believe the evidence in it's current state.
Me said:
Anyway, I think what you're missing is that this is far from conclusive evidence.
You said:
Considering all of the testing so far has shown that gekko is more powerful, it's incredibly difficult to believe that he's just been having bad luck with Kasha/Yukikaze and that more testing is going to bring them right back up.
Fact is, "all of the testing so far" is minor with regard to Gekko being stronger. In fact, tests have been done before by people such as Keiko and Rukenshin (extensive and experienced testers/players) whom have found there to be absolutely no difference in damage properties between Yuki, Kasha and Gekko.
This fable that the order is Gekko > Yuki > Kasha has been around a long time, and is mostly down to this placebo effect. One person says Gekko is more powerful, so people believe it is. They start believing they're seeing bigger numbers more often for Gekko, just because of this rumour that it is. That's what I meant by the placebo effect, and it would explain your speculation of accuracy differences. It would also explain Gunnerx's views of Acc, Att and DA with YGK too.
Me said:
You mentioned that there was an accuracy difference in Kasha/Gekko, which is false. If you think you're able to make that kind of observation which turns out to be wrong, what makes you think you're able of claiming that one is stronger than the other?
You said:
I can't make any observations of merit if I've ever been wrong about something before?
Point is, you eye-balled that damage increase in gekko the exact same way you eye-balled that accuracy boost (and apparent accuracy decrease in Kasha?). One was 100% false, yet you believed it to be there. What makes you justified to believe this new theory, just because it matches with another of your eye-ball predictions? It could be just as false. I myself on the other hand am using raw evidence that prove that there are the exact same STR and TP mods for YGK in my favour. I don't believe some new, minor testing is going to prove it wrong so easily. If the raw stats are to be proven wrong, then let it be done by several testers, with a lot more data. Until then, i'm not moving my view -- and neither should anyone else who sees reason.
Me said:
You haven't done tests yourself, you've just made random observations which lead you to believe one is stronger. (The same observations you used to claim this accuracy difference.)
You said:
Yeah, I did make those observations, but they weren't random. It was a trend that I'd noticed playing samurai for so long. Just because I might(hey, this requires further testing!) be wrong about one trend, doesn't mean that my observations about any other trends are automatically invalid.
As I said above, if you've noticed these 2 trends over these many years of playing SAM and one is completely false -- you obviously can't make valid observations. Therefore, you can't use your own experiences as evidence to support this new data. Now do you understand what I mean?
Me said:
He's wrong about the accuracy, and he's not in the position to claim one 'always has been stronger' than the other, until further testing has been done. It's not up to me to provide testing against it. YGK always have had the exact same mods, that's my evidence. I'm not claiming that this new evidence is all wrong, but it's certainly not certain yet.
And here comes another cheeky couple of phrases: "Ah, the cop out" & "(or your head up your ass)" which wasn't necessary either. Just realise nobody's going to give you a green dot for that sweet-talk anymore, and stop doing it.
You said:
"I can't believe someone else was correct about something, so it can't be right; but I'm not going to get off my ass and actually prove it wrong." Yeah, they have a burden of proof to show that Gekko is stronger; but just sticking your fingers in your ears and saying "la la la, needs way more testing, la la la;" is neither an effective rebuttal nor is even remotely useful.
You may or may not be correct about it. For all we know, Tachi: Jinpu could be found to be able to secretly crit or something. The point is, there's a chance you, and this new testing are incorrect -- and it's a large one at that. Previous, far more extensive testing has shown no difference. Then this one guy in Boyahda with barely 100 data samples comes along and you believe it in a shot. Of course I haven't done the testing myself, but I've read previous tests that have been done. Have you? I don't think so, judging by your stubborn belief in this new testing. In criminal law, the burden of proof is on the defendant. Here's your claim about Gekko, the burden of proof is on you. When something new is suggested, it isn't instantly believed then attempted to be proven wrong, is it?
You said:
I'm loving the blatant morph in your argument since I shut you down earlier. First, it's a "placebo effect" which doesn't even make sense that it could have happened. Now the difference is either not there at all or so slight it's nothing to care about and I'm still oh so wrong even though one of my long-held beliefs on these weapon skills is being proven right by new testing. Yes, more testing is needed, but you're completely dismissing the initial testing, which is far from insignificant. At this point, that additional testing will most likely only give a more accurate depiction of the defense ignoring that Gekko does; it's nigh impossible that it'll change the results enough for the original conclusions to be invalid.
"Shut me down"? How old are you, seriously? It was first, and always has been the case of placebo effect that you believe Gekko to be more accurate. Most likely this is the case for the damage increase too, but we both can't be sure yet. I'm not "completely dismissing" the new testing, but i'm not blindly and ignorantly instantly believing it either. Until further testing is done, i'm standing by my former belief that YGK are equal. I'm prepared to be proven wrong, but not by this brief testing here, nor by your "long-held beliefs" of which some have been entirely false (See: accuracy boost).
You said:
I'm getting the feeling that you've been going around telling everyone that Kasha/Yukikaze was stronger, or something like that.
No. When people claim one to be stronger, I respond that they have identical mods and are equal damage. That's the common belief, it's been extensively tested until now. I'll hold it until equally extensive tests have been carried out for the counter-argument. That's not being stubborn, that's being wise, and not ignorant. I'm open-minded to new ideas, but it takes more than this minor testing.
You said:
Yes, testing is not complete; but so far all of the testing done has proved the guy's claims to be correct. Seriously, you're not coming off as a conservative player, or someone doubtful of this guy's snake oil idea; you're just coming off as a prick who's refusing to believe what's being reported by someone else and is pointlessly attacking anyone who agrees with him.
I never 'attacked' you. I'm arguing against your belief in this new data, which you justify by basically saying that you knew it all along. That's not a valid reason. And as I said before here, you obviously can't make accurate observations about the performance of weapon skills anyway.
End of story, don't bother posting in that thread anymore if it's to do with this.
