Next update on EXP

[Sdävtaker]

Simple question Ronith. If they changed nothing except decided to make it less exp from level 1 to your level, how would you feel about it?
Or how about if they took every expensive item you own and made them easier to get? It's effort, completely wasted.

BTW they already did that im 52 THF and the only way to get compansate on gil the leveling as main was picklock astral rings when u hit 50......
i was 49 and..... no more astral rings on oztroja :-(
stop crying!

 

[CubsWoo]

You keep talking like having to XP slightly (there's that word again, slightly) less than the people before somehow devalues what level 75 'is.' The XP you're 'losing' in this case is, I think, a small price to pay for being able to be at that level for weeks and months and in some cases years now.

Do we gain anything from being level 75 as opposed to level 50, if it takes the same effort? Or do we simply get more instant gratifications from fast levels?

Yes, because despite the 'effort' a level 75 can do more things and be more places in the grand scope of the game than a level 50 can. If I spend X amount of time getting gil for a Peacock Charm and player B spends that same amount of time leveling their job, at the end of that time I have a peacock charm and they have 15 levels on me. Now, sure, I have that charm, but all I can do with it is the same things the other person did 15 levels ago, while the person who put less 'effort' into their job and just put their nose to the XP grind can fight more mobs, camp more NMs, and begin more endgame content. If that's what you mean by 'instant gratification' then I suppose you're right but 'effort' does not always mean XP.

All this is doing, in the scheme of balance, is cutting off the tail end of the game.You have to understand this... you can't be given anything, because when something gets easier to do, the value of doing it is less. All this update does is two things.

1: You are no longer allowed to put as much effort into your character's leveling. It gets done sooner.

I'm 'allowed' to put as much effort as I want into my character. There's always something else you need to make it better (merits, God gear, AF2, random 20+ million gil items) that all require 'effort' to get.

2. If you already put that effort it, it's gone.

No, it isn't, because you already have the fruits of that effort. When endgame gear becomes three times as expensive because of more demand, your savings is a result of that effort. When you have God Gear X and now it's too camped to acquire, that's a result of the effort. When you can get to the endgame CoP missions and the new 75s are still stuck on 3-5, that's a result of your effort. I don't have much of anything 'done' in this game despite my effort, because my effort has been focused on things other than level grinding. To me, XP is a means to an end.

 

[Elemmire]

ya...frankly..when..I'm..done..with..the..other..crafts..to..60..I..wanna...take..goldsmithing..to..100..cause..of..the..challenge...
and..I..liked..the..challenge..of..leveling..just...don't..like..the..deleveling..thing....Exp..loss..ok..but..delevel..is..depressing

 

[Sabia]

This game is for more likely to lose players from lack of endgame content than it is level grind. It is now a more aged MMO with a large max level population with not much to do for them. This is simply just not the kind of change the game needs to keep players in. Some shit in this game is broken (ie, needing ~20,000 dynamis money for fully upgraded relic when about 100-200 drop total per clearing max, for example), but the levelling is not. If they want to pump players into the high level like an intimate encounter with "Big Chuck" in a prison shower once their endgame content is more accessible then I think many people would not be as annoyed.

I'm noticing that the biggest complaint about FFXI that people have is "It takes too long, I don't have that kind of time to invest in a game" and I do agree with them. I'm excited about the update. If they were making Mobs easier to kill or gods weak shit I'd be pissed off but everything's just as hard it's just you can do it sooner. I've given up drawing and playing any other games, watching casual TV and watching movies just to get my ass to 55....that's a big chunk of my life and I'd like a little bit of it back.

I'm good friends with a lot of people in this game and it pisses me off to no end that I can't have fun with them because I'll be a burden. The games not a pissing contest, it's a game and if SE can make it a bit more fun I'm on it like a fat kid on a smartie.

 

[Liefe]

and one more thing:

THis isn't good to me not because of how fast I can hit 75. This is good because now I can hit level 60-70 faster. At this point in time I don't give a damn about end game content. I care about doing missions, and playing with people in my linkshell that i enjoy helping who have helped me. I can't do a lot of missions because I'm not level 60 yet. Shit, i get left out of a LOT of things because of my level, and like i said before, that is hindered because of TIME.

This isn't just about getting your job to 75, all you high level people. This is about getting your job to a level that you can be included with people in doing A WHOLE SHIT LOAD OF OTHER THINGS THERE IS TO DO IN THE GAME BESIDES END GAME STUFF AND GET LEVEL 75.

Get over yourselves, honestly. I understand that you are pissed about the leveling, but games change. I understand that you are worried about the amount of end game things there are to do. But this in time, will change also. Just freaking realize that you are WAY ahead of yourselves in the assumptions you are making about what the consequences of this are going to be.

What is it exactly you expect to be doing at ~70? Sitting around Jeuno in the tavern wearing the summerfest gear eating bretzels and exchanging LOLs? Please. Games revolve around content which the end levels are very much missing.

 

[Falsey]

Just to follow up on what Sabia said, I really want 75 for doing things other than the typical HNM / God hunting. Of course I'd love to try some of that out too (and Dynamis, etc), but really the main reason I want 75 with any job is the chance to do some of the quests and missions that I currently can't do.

The sad thing is that I can imagine the scenario where most players sit and zoom through Missions 6-1 thru rank 10 just mashing on the enter key to skip the "annoying" cutscenes as quickly as they can. That's such a huge waste of this game in my opinion. I actually like seeing new plotscenes or doing obscure quests to see some little tiny yet interesting plot. I'll happily accept my neat reward from doing a quest, but the plot and the fun of going through the motions is more interesting to me.

Until you've done every single quest and mission in the game, I can't see how anyone could possibly be bored with this game. Hell, give me your lvl 75 character so I can go do some of the quests that you can't be bothered to do! :twisted:

I think this is very well put, good job Rappa. Pretty much covered all the basics of what I was thinking too.

 

[Firestreak]

Cubswoo you would be correct under the idea that extra exp is automatically weighed towards next level or towards merit points. Unfortunately that's not possible.
If it was true and fair, then not only would people who are level 75 get free merits, but level 50-75 get exp towards next level. However, for some people, that's not possible because they'd slam face first into Genkai.
so we must agree by that logic, there is no compensation to already level 75s. And then by that logic, you're simply taking the entire end of the game and bringing it closer to the beginning. Hence people are screwed over.
they could very easily have added in more mid level content. If you noticed, CoP seems mainly focused around level 30-50.
AF2 earlier? Sure why not? Go ahead, make dynamis for level 20 for all I care. I don't mind people having fun. Go ahead Panda, make it possible to get rank 10 at level 15, doesn't affect me in the slightest. Why don't you learn Raise 3 at level 30? It doesn't affect me if you want to put the effort into gods and dynamis and whatever now or later. I mind that the effort put into leveling previously is going to be erased. I don't like my exp getting erased.

 

[Elemmire]

I..think..Svina..put..it..best...do...you...really...wanna..get..more..gilsellers..to..75..faster?..anyway...I..worked..my..ass...off
to..get..to..75...and..now...to..see..it's..only..gonna..get..easier..for...everyone..else..kinda..depresses..me...seems..unfair..since
I...worked...so..hard..for..so...long..and..now..people..can..do..it..in..less..time...(still..working..hard..that..is..but..just..less..time)

 

[CubsWoo]

You act like this is going to encourage gilsellers to get 75 - I think it was in their plans anyway.

 

[Arturus]

SE is realizing that they are losing a huge chunk of their customer base to other MMORPGs because a lot of people just don't have the time to get anything done in this game.

Now that is dead on the mark.

I honestly am not sure if this will prove to be a good decission or a bad decission for SE but I think it was clearly made with money in mind and gameplay was a distant second factor in the decission. I have spent part of the morning doing some research on SE and going through what little financial information is available through Hover's and some other online sources. Sadly, I have been unable to get my hands on a financial report for the company. However, S.E. runs with a fiscal year end in March, so they just posted their fourth quarter results for their fiscal year. They have very clearly recognized they are BLEEDING Market Share. But the company is by no means in trouble they posted huge gains in both sales and profits this last year (2003 to 2004).

Annual Sales:
2002: 187.2 million
2003: 182.5 million
2004: 598.3 million

2004 Sales: % of total
Japan 70
North America 25
Europe 3
Asia 2
Total 100


2004 Sales: % of total
Games
Offline 60
Online 14
Publication 15
Mobile phone content 5
Other 6
Total 100

Honestly we need more information to figure out what is really going on with these numbers but online gaming makes up 14% of 598.3million in sales. While it is not their biggest piece of business it is certainly a large portion of their annual income. The discussions everyone is having about what it will do to the game play and those already at 75 shows how split the players are on this.

However, in S.E.'s eyes I think none of that matters; they are looking at keeping the most people playing and paying possible. I think they have decided that there is greater profit in trying to keep people from quitting in the mid 50's-60's.

FFXI does not exist to keep us happy at night when we get home from work or school. FFXI exists to make money period, no other reason. I think S.E. does not care how many high level players they piss off so long as the end result is more paying accounts and greater revenue from this line of business.

I don't think it is at all a coincidence that this announcement came a few days after their "Return to Vanadiel" campaign started.

 

[Rappa]

Gilseller accounts are logged in 24/7/365. Do you really that saving an hour or two each level tops really matters to them? :roll: They just bring in whomever's shift is next and get back to it.

 

[Firestreak]

alanon:
how can you sit at a computer for like 6hrs straight every night of the week and look me in the eye and say you have a social life.
social life does not mean saying hi to all your ffxi friends.
a social life does not include /em.

So basically Panda you think that people should be punished for investing the time into FF because you see yourself as a clearly superior person?

Hmmm, Iguess we can now say regardless of starting time, time spend earning gil and doing quests ext... the direct comparison of a person's social success in life is an inverse of their FF level? Mayber we should all return to Dunes to get some grooming tips?

Oh yea, STFU.

 

[Sanjo Renomitsu]

Sanjo Renomitsu, you should care.

FFXI is losing players to WOW so incredibly fast and I personally don't want to see my game go down. Server merges etc are fast becoming a reality I really don't want to deal with. Are they making end game content easier? No, they're just making it so people can do it sooner. I really don't care if they make the exp a little less to get your next level if it saves SE some customers and keeps the game running longer.

Please don't pull the "Everyone hates me because I"m high level" routine...it's old and goes both ways. High level's dissrespect low levels just as often and it's really stupid to pull that card.

The games going to change a lot, deal with it. Imagine being a level 70 summoner that got through the game with just carbuncle and spirits and then boom all of a sudden there's 6 other avatars available to people. You'd be pretty pissed off wouldn't you? Well that was a reality for some people.

If you can't deal with change don't play an MMORPG, stick to consoles because those don't change. :roll:

Sabia, the fact that I am high level is not the point, it is HOW I got there. I have mixed feelings about this, but in general I am not happy about it. It good very people that a good portion of the xp I earned ends up being "extra" and tossed out the window. So in fact it's saving up 500k gil for something I want, finding out it only costs 200k, and being forced to toss 300k. You guys are the one using the "Oh look, high level is mad too bad" routine. I know MMORPG change constantly, but doesn't mean I have to like the changes they made, and even tho I've accepted it, I'm not happy about it. I'm trying to get you to see that we DO stand to lose. Frankly, let people go to WoW. I really do not care, I've lost so many friends from this and that, and in reality it's happened to me in every other game. People get bored, move on. In fact I'm like that. I've moved on from other mmo games, and the way you should see it is like that for people leaving before they get to 75.

The fact IS, that in most games to get to cap is about as long as it takes us to hit 50ish maybe even 60. That's usually around when people also quit in other games or start doing end game stuff, at least S-E gives extra imo to people who would want to play a longer game, longer then the standard time it took to reach cap. I'm sure it's easy to understand for the people who argue that there is nothing wrong with leveling to 75 easier. I AGREE WITH THAT. Hell, it will allow me to hit 75 faster with my OTHER JOBS. That is a good aspect to this, and I am in no way arguing it. It's aready a joke to get a pt, at my level even worse, even for a rdm. This will make things smoother..

What I am complaining about is all the xp I already gained getting to where I am.. I just feels depressing tossing that much xp out. I'd be happy if S-E (like a SMART person would do, I mean just because MMORPG change doesn't mean they have to pull off what the EQ people did and screw everyone at every turn) simply allowed that wasted xp to go to use. So I know those frikin hours of xp wasn't as useless as gaining 200k extra gil for an item I want, knowing I'd just be forced to toss the extra 200k. Let it go to other classes, or at least to merit or to extra levels. I mean, if I in total obtained 100k extra xp then I had to (example only) for gods sake I should be able to use it for merit.

By contrast, you know there are two sides to the rope. I know people have been annoyed by the (comparably few amount of people who don't have too much time to play) time it takes to xp, and have left to something more simple like WoW, but I'm sure more then just a few higher levels will leave if this game becomes more like WoW, less of a challenge. It's not that bad now, but it's not a good path to start taking.

All I'm saying is, damnit S-E I'm glad you made everyone around the lower high levels (50ish) jumping with glee and keeping them staying, but what about the higher level people you are basically telling "Too bad, so you earned 40k xp more then you needed to hit 75. I'll tell you what, I'll toss that away and we can forget it took you weeks of lfging, dealing with pt's, and ect to earn it. I mean, I'm sure no one cares if in effect they lost 40k xp."

I'm sure if S-E decided, since the ratio of loss extra xp is 40k to a level 75 player, we're going to reduce everyone's xp by a ratio, roughly maybe 30k xp for a level 60 or something. I'm sure people would have to say something then.

 

[Audino]

I don't think it is at all a coincidence that this announcement came a few days after their "Return to Vanadiel" campaign started.

Excellent point Art. cheers.

 

[CubsWoo]

All I'm saying is, damnit S-E I'm glad you made everyone around the lower high levels (50ish) jumping with glee and keeping them staying, but what about the higher level people you are basically telling "Too bad, so you earned 40k xp more then you needed to hit 75. I'll tell you what, I'll toss that away and we can forget it took you weeks of lfging, dealing with pt's, and ect to earn it. I mean, I'm sure no one cares if in effect they lost 40k xp."

And what I'M saying is all these upset high-levels are taking it this way as opposed to "Well, I earned (this much XP) more than the players are going to need now, but I also got to access all the high-level endgame content much sooner and with much less competition. Oh, and SE is promising more content for people like me (this is the line people are ignoring in the announcement) so maybe it all evens out in the end."

 

[Panda]

alanon:
how can you sit at a computer for like 6hrs straight every night of the week and look me in the eye and say you have a social life.
social life does not mean saying hi to all your ffxi friends.
a social life does not include /em.

So basically Panda you think that people should be punished for investing the time into FF because you see yourself as a clearly superior person?

Hmmm, Iguess we can now say regardless of starting time, time spend earning gil and doing quests ext... the direct comparison of a person's social success in life is an inverse of their FF level? Mayber we should all return to Dunes to get some grooming tips?

Oh yea, STFU.

wait, what? punished? I never said that. I said I feel bad for you guys. I never said I see myself as a "clearly superior person". I said that, and I don't think it takes a genious to take this all out of my posts context if you took the time to read the whole thing instead of what you might just have gotten offended by -

Between WORK, and MY STEPDAUGHTER, and MY LIFE (which I have outside of playing the game sometimes) and MY BILLS, and some people's SCHOOL, and whatever other obligations you have, I Don't have a lot of the time to put into the game as many people who have had the time to take their jobs to 75.

Believe it or not, kids, there are TONS of people like me who play this game and have the same problem! To us, this drop in XP it takes to level is really great. Its going to take us less time to get to the levels that we would like to be at in order to get to certain missions and aspects of the game that we CANT DO BECAUSE WE DONT HAVE THE TIME.

Therefore, YES, a person's social life, or real life's activeness if you want to put it that way, is DIRECTLY related to the amount of time you invest in playing ffxi. How many hours did it take you to level three jobs to 75? How many days have you been playing this game on your game clock? To say that that time does not have a direct impact on your life and the amount of time you have spent during your life not socializing or taking part in other activities is pure bullshit. I'd like to see you prove otherwise.

I AM NOT SAYING, AND I REPEAT, I AM NOT SAYING that it makes ME or ANYONE ELSE "BETTER" than anyone else. I am not saying that I am "BETTER" than you because I spend more time with other activities than you do with ffxi. I am simply stating that i DONT HAVE AS MUCH TIME AS YOU to play the game, and that YOU AND YOUR HIGH LEVEL FRIENDS are not the only people who play the game.

Do I think this sucks for the high level people who already made it to 75? Sure. Its bullshit. SE Could have put a little more thought into that and come up with a way to reward those people who are already at 75.

Do I think its going to ruin the game and cause all these issues that you people are coming up with? No. I think you're just bitching because you aren't going to feel like part of your elite high level club anymore because more people are going to be there with you, when, in fact, they were ALREADY PLANNING ON DOING SO.

Do I think that this will have a positive or negative effect on everyone's gameplay? I have no idea. But i know for SURE that it will have a positive impact on MY gameplay. In my book, that's what counts.

 

[alanon]

alanon:
how can you sit at a computer for like 6hrs straight every night of the week and look me in the eye and say you have a social life.
social life does not mean saying hi to all your ffxi friends.
a social life does not include /em.

Look, yet another broad brush stoke. Yup, 6 hours straight every night. :roll: Actually, I got lucky enough to be asked to join a static that started mid-Jan. We xp'd on Mon and Wed from 8-midnite. I get home from work, play with my daughter, have dinner, put her to bed, and play FF.

You say you have children right? You should understand then, that I can't leave a 4yr old home alone so I can go out and have what you consider a "social life". Of course maybe you consider a "social life" watching "reality television" instead of playing FF. Maybe you're just a terrible parent and leave your children at home while you go out and tie one on.

Before you respond, I know my assumptions are stupid. However they are only as dumb as your stupid fucking ignorant remark about not having a "social life".

 

[Panda]

seriously man, i didnt say that you can't have a social life and play ffxi at the same time. Read my post above. maybe it will be a little clearer to you. Yeah, my statement was a blanket statement. its not meant to be taken that seriously.

but if you got that offended by it, than maybe there is a point to be made here, right?

 

[Sabia]

Why can't you just be proud of the fact that you got XXX# of experience in the time you played? Why does SE have to justify it for you? Nobody's taking away the fact you got that amount of experience. Get over it guys.... :roll:

 

[Lanien]

Y'all are retarded for continue arguing this. I don't care what anyone says about leveling becoming easier until you love DRG. Whether it was getting to 75 before or 75 now, it's still hard.