NIN and RNG gimping: SE strikes again.

Reality said:
Neosquall; yes 6th arrow, that was a typo

not to mention they gave rangers access to all of the god equipment at 75 (osode, haidate, and kote namely), and access to w.hands & w.legs

rng was a job they made, from top to bottom, very powerful

oh and karihkinz, NIN > PLD tank in EXP party, no question in my mind, coming from a WAR standpoint, most PLD's seem to not understand how a thief fits into the pt setup and they almost always gimp the SC by going overboard with hate

with a NIN tank, hate can be more freeflowing, bouncing back and forth between me and the NIN, making opening the SC for myself much easier. i will always party with a NIN tank before a PLD, just my personal preference, just because SE never intended NIN to be a tank job from the start doesn't mean they haven't added gear to the game that allows them to do exactly that, to tank and be damn good at it
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i LOVED having a thf in my PT, i got to be lazy w/ the hate, lmao, it's not a hard thing to do, 1 voke 1 flash 1 JA maybe a cure III or IV depending on how long things are taking, not that complicated.
 
I have a story straight from "My Boy from Davoi"... LOL.


Orcish Nightraider said:
One evening I was attacked buy a group of people, the first person I went after was the one who initiated the fight. Now, I get to his hangout and he has a few friends. One of them starts slicing away at me and "Provokes" me to go after him instead. Okay, fine I'll fight him in place of that prick that disturbed me!

WTF?!?! Each time I go to hit 'em, I am not doing any damage and one of his "Shadows" takes the blow. You know what? Fuck that... Fuck him and his damn shadows! I am going after one of his friends that is blasting me with a bow and arrow, he looks like a bitch anyway. And if that jackass with the power to drop a shit-load of rocks on me doesn't stop, he is next!

Oh, there goes the ninja again, provoking me with a "Taunt" that doesn't even hurt! I already know that if I try to hit him, I'll just miss. Guess what? Sticks (arrows) and Stones break my fucking bones and his "Provoke" will never hurt me! I going back to beating those bastards up, they are the ones that are killing me, not the ninja, he is just scratching me up a bit. And that fucker that keeps giving back the health that I am taking from everyone, has it coming!

Bam... Down goes the Healer!!! HA! Now to that stoner. Heh, he went down as quick as the healer. Uh-oh... the Ninja is provoking and scratching me again.. Better go after his ass. Damn I missed. Shit, missed again! ... OWWWW That fucking bow-crazy bastard is still alive! He is worm food! BOOM. He is done! Now I can go after that ninja :twisted:

Holy shit! That crazy fuck just killed himself! Look at this, he has all these scrolls but didn't know how to use them. OMG, he could have been poisoning me, blinding me, making me weaker to those stones... WOW! All he did was cut me a bit... I'm a lucky bastard.
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My friend was lucky that the ninja didn't know what he was doing! If that guy would have kept his attention the most of the time with his other abilities, it would have been "Good Night" Nightraider!

Later ya'll!

Oh yeah, Jaggedy-Eared Jack can suck my CACK!
 
With scavenge and some woodworking, I've heard of rangers who pretty much tread water as far as arrows goes. Can't claim shihei as an extra expense. Can't claim food. Can't claim equipment. So really rangers are overpowered because...uh...an error was made and lots of people throw gil at the auction house hoping it hits something.
 
pardon my ignorance for asking that but shouldn't a job your going to use as a tank be able to self-sustain hate without having to rely on another job to back up their enmity? I mean .. if more people knew how to do their job's right (which isn't the case with most nins and on occasion some rdms not to exclusively bash one job here), this thread wouldn't be here...

On a side note, complaining that a thf is needed for a nin to do their job right is a cop-out of the highest order, don't claim need for thf as a reason to cover up someone elses issues with sucking at their job.
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It's also ignorence to think ninjas never need some kind of hate control either. Last time I check plds require rdm or at least a brd, and typically a whm. The difference is one tank is dependent upon a support class, and the other a melee class (thf or /thf)

There is no thing as a self sustained job in FFXI, the game praises interdepence. Every DD,tank,mage,support job requires specfic other jobs to work with.

ninjas wanting hate control
plds wanting a solid main healer and refresh
Damage dealers and healers needing tanks
War and ninja tanks prefering brds
And the list goes on and on.

It's by each job covering the other jobs weaknesses, that each job can play its strengths, and that's what grouping in FFXI is all about. There are special circumstances but generally not.
 
Jagster said:
pardon my ignorance for asking that but shouldn't a job your going to use as a tank be able to self-sustain hate without having to rely on another job to back up their enmity? I mean .. if more people knew how to do their job's right (which isn't the case with most nins and on occasion some rdms not to exclusively bash one job here), this thread wouldn't be here...

On a side note, complaining that a thf is needed for a nin to do their job right is a cop-out of the highest order, don't claim need for thf as a reason to cover up someone elses issues with sucking at their job.
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It's also ignorence to think ninjas never need some kind of hate control either. Last time I check plds require rdm or at least a brd, and typically a whm. The difference is one tank is dependent upon a support class, and the other a melee class (thf or /thf)

There is no thing as a self sustained job in FFXI, the game praises interdepence. Every DD,tank,mage,support job requires specfic other jobs to work with.

ninjas wanting hate control
plds wanting a solid main healer and refresh
Damage dealers and healers needing tanks
War and ninja tanks prefering brds
And the list goes on and on.

It's by each job covering the other jobs weaknesses, that each job can play its strengths, and that's what grouping in FFXI is all about. There are special circumstances but generally not.
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Whitemages are overrated, give a pld a rdm and a brd and he can main heal himself :D
 
:(

Orcish Grappler said:
My friend was lucky that the ninja didn't know what he was doing! If that guy would have kept his attention the most of the time with his other abilities, it would have been "Good Night" Nightraider!
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If you have never played the job to at least 65 then you have no clue about the Elemental and de-buffing spells.

For one, A de-buff spell (like Blind for instance) causes absolutely no hate unless it sticks. So if you are able to Blind the enemy and it sticks then ok you just got a hate spike, but if not you just wasted 2 swings with your katanas (Not that I don't at least try to de-buff every fight).

Secondly Elemental Ni spells post 65 are completely worthless. The act of casting the spell isn't what spikes hate, it is the damage caused by the spell that does. And honestly even swapping in Magic attack bonus equipment really doesn't help with damage or resistance. My top damage with an Elemental spell is 102 on a dark burst, which I could easily out damage with 4-6 swings with my Katana's

So you can say "He is a bad NIN cause he doesn't use his Elemental Spells" all you want, and sure it looks good in print. But the fact of the matter is, with low damage and resistance, it would be more effective to just swing away with your Katana's.
 
God forbid RNG gets nerfed. :roll:

Level's the playing feild if you ask me. And why not welcome a challenge?
 
Ithenas said:
Jagster said:
pardon my ignorance for asking that but shouldn't a job your going to use as a tank be able to self-sustain hate without having to rely on another job to back up their enmity? I mean .. if more people knew how to do their job's right (which isn't the case with most nins and on occasion some rdms not to exclusively bash one job here), this thread wouldn't be here...

On a side note, complaining that a thf is needed for a nin to do their job right is a cop-out of the highest order, don't claim need for thf as a reason to cover up someone elses issues with sucking at their job.
Click to expand...

It's also ignorence to think ninjas never need some kind of hate control either. Last time I check plds require rdm or at least a brd, and typically a whm. The difference is one tank is dependent upon a support class, and the other a melee class (thf or /thf)

There is no thing as a self sustained job in FFXI, the game praises interdepence. Every DD,tank,mage,support job requires specfic other jobs to work with.

ninjas wanting hate control
plds wanting a solid main healer and refresh
Damage dealers and healers needing tanks
War and ninja tanks prefering brds
And the list goes on and on.

It's by each job covering the other jobs weaknesses, that each job can play its strengths, and that's what grouping in FFXI is all about. There are special circumstances but generally not.
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Whitemages are overrated, give a pld a rdm and a brd and he can main heal himself :D
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That works until someone dies and everyone goes crying to the whm's.
 
I ptd in bibiki for like 4 hrs last night and this was the setup:

pld
mnk
rng
thf
blm
rdm

happens alot .. while i don't really want to go as far as to say whms are over-rated .. it's often very easy to pt without them... and on a side note Reviera restored alot of my faith in nins last night in the tree :D
 
Decidence, buying player-made tolls doesn't take out gil from the economy. Aside from that, you post is pretty good.
 
Nin will be required to be more knowledge about the area/mob they are going to and know what tools are more important to bring. I beilieve nin are really getting shitted on but its all how you deal with it, I always believed nin were more expensive than rng now there alot more expensive. Imma rng so ill be enjoying my lower emitiy but I feel for anyone who play nin and is not a millionare or can make money easier than others. Ive been noticing that SE is leaning towards makin it more and more required to craft and use that as a money maker theres reall no other reliable way to make money beside finding a good farming area and thats still not as worth it than having high lvl crafting. Im glad I already hate using nins but I still have 6 lvls togo b4 mine hits lvl 37 and with this update I get the feeling to be a good nin ill need at least 800-1mil gill to get those lvls for tools alone.
 
I came up with this idea long ago, that no one ever used.

If you Ninjas want cheap tools, make a Linkshell for Ninjas. Everyone can take up a different craft to make the different tools, and you guys can make tools for one another for base prices.
 
I pity the guy who enters that shell and chose woodworking...
 
SE just wants u to either use rng sub and go DD with shurikens or gun or use millions of tools.WHy? so u have to farm more.WHy? so u spend 1 mil hrs more and fuck up ur real life more thats why lol.
 
forgive me for being a bit late to put my 2 cents worth in... before I was hesitant about nin tanks. now I don't think I'll ever use one. BLM + NIN = dead BLM & frustrated NIN
 
Blackchaoshero said:
forgive me for being a bit late to put my 2 cents worth in... before I was hesitant about nin tanks. now I don't think I'll ever use one. BLM + NIN = dead BLM & frustrated NIN
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Either you, all the nins or all off the above suck.
I went 60-75 with only nin tank. Only times i died
was when we miscalculated pops.
So um.... Yeah.
 
Caerloc said:
Blackchaoshero said:
forgive me for being a bit late to put my 2 cents worth in... before I was hesitant about nin tanks. now I don't think I'll ever use one. BLM + NIN = dead BLM & frustrated NIN
Click to expand...

Either you, all the nins or all off the above suck.
I went 60-75 with only nin tank. Only times i died
was when we miscalculated pops.
So um.... Yeah.
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I have to agree with Blackchaoshero on this one. A well equiped Blm can easily pull hate away from a Ninja Tank. A well equipped Blm that is good at his job WON'T pull hate away, but it can easily be done, Even if you have -16 Enmity.

Whereas the only way I can pull hate off of a Pld is take off all my enmity-gear and don't eat royal Jelly. Then I do much less damage and it's still hard to pull hate from a pld.

And if you had miscalculated those pops with a pld tank, he could have busted out Invincible and you wouldn't have died.

As a ninja, I wish people would be more willing to let me be a damage dealer. I would be much better at that than I am at tanking. At least till I get Utsusemi: Ni. Oh well, Tanking is less Expensive than bein a DD as Shihei is one of the cheapest Ninja Tools.
 
I'm personally not a big fan of NIN tanks (Personal Preference of course) but it doesn't seem like patch will be too drastic, just looks like they'll have to work a little harder to acheive the same goal.
 
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