NIN and RNG gimping: SE strikes again.

Mokk said:
so...........

How many topics about this do we really need? :roll:
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I suppose we could throw one or two up in Good Times too, just to spread it around some more.

And maybe we could talk some role-players into writing comments from their character one in the Traveller's Tavern too....
 
To be fair to RNG though they do spend a shitload on ammo at higher levels....although they are really quite overpowered...

And as for NIN...blink tanking was flawed even before the "nerf" even excusing the lack a hate control at times. AoE and/or tripple attack mobs will generally maim a NIN tank horribly, Big birds really suck as they have both. while i am not saying it is impossible to tank a big bird as a NIN you will have a very hard time and you would need to actually know what you are doing unlike most NIN. i really have no preferance for tanks (i'm WHM btw) as long as they can actually tank. NIN is cool...can get a little boring at times but no downtime is good, PLD have good def and heal themselves, and generally have better hate control. Bad tanks will always be bad tanks and no amount of nerfing or improving (within reason) will change that. for example in LoO i was fighting torma, and i had a NIN and PLD in my pt (yes i am aware i should have ran for the hills...) the NIN actually knew how to tank unlike the PLD...and basically the NIN was having to tank...the PLD realises he is really shit, so what does he decide to do? he tries to DD and fails horribly. at the same time he also randomly throws provokes in just to fuck up the NIN tank. i think people should be less focused on shitty players than on minor job adjustments that should not matter that much to people who are good at their jobs. Btw i would name the shitty PLD...but i forgot his name.
 
What i find hysterical is that:

A. people run around screaming "NERF NERF NERF OMFGAWDZORZ FUCK SE" before a patch even comes out.

B. Utsu: Ni for all it's apperant uselessness now is still climbing the charts as the top over-priced item in the scroll bracket.

C. 90% of NINs are completely oblivuous to the stats and mathematical properties of their jobs and as such will probably not even notice or comment to the fact unless someone tells them that their opinion on it is that it's a nerf and it sucks.

D. Those same 90% will still not use their other tools and continue to pimp utsu out on the corner like so many crack-whores.
 
I agree with all of the above apart from utsusemi: Ni being useless...wth? it is like the NIN 2nd most important spell after Ichi (not sure which is more important of the two...).

And yes he is right...SE could remove ustsusemi and 90% of NIN would still try to tank for as long as they could until people stopped inviting them.
 
CubsWoo said:
Count me in as some kind of RNG "nerf" (if you can call it that) being a not-so-bad thing. Leveling RNG to 30 I've had pulls where my first arrow hit was strong enough to keep hate on me - after a Provoke from the PLD. I've basically tanked the entire Jungle and it's sort of a pain in the ass. Might have some God/HNM fight issues, but I'd imagine this isn't some major reduction, and might even increase their damage if they find a sweet spot distance.

As for the Utsusemi issue, it spells the end of BAD NINs. Ones that only use Utsusemi to hold hate. Get buyin' those quivers of Hojo, Kurayami, Jubaku, and elemental tools, folks.
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Perfect explaination of how I see this. Basicaly all this means is, rangers won't be pulling out their axe+dagger to melee really. Also any NIN that doesn't use the tools available is a shitty NIN. I don't see this, so-called "nerf," effecting NINs like Vang at all.
 
*Changes to Ranged Attacks
Soon, the distance of the monster from the player will determine the damage and accuracy of ranged attacks. This determination will vary from weapon to weapon, as will the ideal distance for maximum damage. In addition, the higher the monster's level is with regard to the player, the less damage will be dealt with a ranged attack. This system is similar to that of melee attacks, but the difference in damage will not be as great.
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Thank god I decided to level DRG. (lol?)

*Changes to the ninjutsu "Utsusemi"
In the next update, the player's enmity will decrease when a shadow image created by Utsusemi is absorbed by an attack.
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I've seen a 57 NIN without Ni. Really. This won't change a damn thing, just make 'em work harder, which is too bad.
 
I feel bad for the pld/nins that will tank stuff after this.

One of the reasons I haven't leveled nin is because I would use the debuffing spells like crack in a crack-house. I didn't realize some nins didn't do this (being pld and all) >.> I considered it the norm.
 
i only meant that whole "uselessness" thing as a sarcasm bit cos alot of people are whinning about it .. this is the flameboard, wanted to make that clear just so i don't feel some heat in my direction over that ... now aside from that i have this to say ....

On one of these threads (there's 3 now to my count) skaw gave reasons why he disliked nin's at endgame cos they blow for tanking ... in the 60's i gotta say i am loathe to pt with a nin tank specificly b/c even if they do what their s'pose to do with their tools a drg/rng/mnk/blm/drk on their A-Game always seem to make them infinately useless as they can't hold hate. Perhaps if more of them knew their job as a BLM-type tank the other classes would have evolved a little to allow for their hate properties to be useful during Xp, but that's not how it happened. Now, there are some decent nin's out there who hold hate and know the deal and all that, and to you guys i appologize, but there's droves of the other out and about making you look bad enough that i can say these things with relative comfort and rationale that at least on our server up to my lvl (63 main) NIN's suck and PLD's own the tanking bracket, if such things weren't the case why would i have to carry armor's on me specificly to not have to tank while a nin's in pt (sack the arhat's jinpachi and the o. kotes for a minute boys, there's a nin tanking v.v)

i hope this actually does bring an end to the trained monkey utsu-spamming crackwhores out there, otherwise i'm jsut gonna have to write the job off as a whole.

Anywho, that's just my two cents. Great job for a sub if yer soloing, great job for tanking if there's 2 of em, but a flat out liability to DDs who know their job and don't want to walk on egg shells for fear of losing the tank cos they're stupid and can't do their job properly.
 
Don't be in a party where there's no hate controller to back up the ninja. People who whine that nins can never keep hate while refusing to invite anyone with trick attack to help out are best babysat under the protection of a paladin. If you're too elite to invite a hate controller, that's not the ninja's problem, so don't blame them for something you screwed up on. If the ninja refuses a hate controller, only then does it become their problem. With a hate controller, hate is never an issue. Now the nin may die because they can't work their shadows, but the mob will be focused on them and only them. It might require you to gamble that you have both a competent nin and a competent hate controller, but I can guarantee that those odds are better than getting an excellent nin alone.

I personally use debilitator tools when I'm on my nin. I like how utterly incompetent mobs become when they all stick, but a ninja who spends their off-time meleeing doesn't always have to be pegged as gimp. Just invite a hate controller. Spamming elementals and debilitators at level 60 does little to aid the win but increase hate. A hate controller can do that with a flip of their wrist, and allow the nin to better aid the party with damage dealt.

Hopefully this update will convince elitist ninjas that even they need help. You should not invite ninjas to tank without trick attack in the party. And if people are still dumb enough to invite a ninja and then whine when they can't keep hate by themselves, that's their problem. It always has been. Yes, a ninja can throw gil at something and keep better hate. But even the best ninja pales in comparison to an average ninja winged by an average hate controller.
 
pardon my ignorance for asking that but shouldn't a job your going to use as a tank be able to self-sustain hate without having to rely on another job to back up their enmity? I mean .. if more people knew how to do their job's right (which isn't the case with most nins and on occasion some rdms not to exclusively bash one job here), this thread wouldn't be here...

On a side note, complaining that a thf is needed for a nin to do their job right is a cop-out of the highest order, don't claim need for thf as a reason to cover up someone elses issues with sucking at their job.
 
actually he said someone to SATA...that is THF up until lvl 60 but after is is generally every DD job. but yeah...i have seen NIN self sustain hate fine by themselves. some of them i have seen keep hate better than NIN with hate controller.
 
Basicly all the pro/con NIN stuff is based on personal experience, those are mine, take em or leave em. I'd love it if i had examples to the contrary for the last 20 lvls of mnk, but i don't :cry:
 
Mokk said:
pardon my ignorance for asking that but shouldn't a job your going to use as a tank be able to self-sustain hate without having to rely on another job to back up their enmity? I mean .. if more people knew how to do their job's right (which isn't the case with most nins and on occasion some rdms not to exclusively bash one job here), this thread wouldn't be here...

On a side note, complaining that a thf is needed for a nin to do their job right is a cop-out of the highest order, don't claim need for thf as a reason to cover up someone elses issues with sucking at their job.
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Like i said if nin could keep hate PLD would be out of the job, i mean what better job can a PLD do than take hate when another job (mage, DD) takes hate (im not saying they cant tank btw lol, on the contrary they r awsome tanks). if nin where hate keepers then why would we want a thf in a PT, we could just get 3 RNGs and do crazy DMG, (like a lot of PT's ive seen PLD tank in)... Also how cute would a PLD wanna take a Burst (ancient magic) from a Mob, i mean sure they can take it and live and DRK or BLM can probably stun it. but what if there is no DRK or BLM >.> that would be a lot of hp to cure. but a ninja will take 0 dmg if his shadows r up, in cases like this i URGE DRK or BLM Not to stun it, b/c in the time he takes to cast it (to do 0 DMG) we hit it like crazy and dont get touched. so yes a THF is a NIN Bestfriend and so what if we use them, they do their job we do ours, its not something to really get worked up about, Maybe NIN where never ment to tank but they do a damn good job at it :wink:
 
ninja's spamming shurikens could hold hate rather easily, even without a thief in the party, but nobody ever does this because the price of decent level shurikens is just insane (i haven't figured out why they put this weapon in the game, yet make it completely unusuable by anyone, NA or JP, due to its cost to produce)

as for rangers "needing a nerf", hmm.. where to begin

lets start off with SE admitting they made the job imbalanced to begin with, and continued to strengthen the job even through the level 75 cap update (adding a 5th arrow to Barrage), did some kind of management change happen at SE within the last year and a half that i wasn't aware of, that decided the old crew wasn't doing things right, so we have to correct their mistakes by weakening the job? i have a better idea, why not strengthen the other jobs instead of nerfing ours? yes, we do pay gil to do our job, is that enough reason to allow RNG to outdamage every other job? of course it is. the problem the OTHER melee jobs have is they aren't given the OPTION to throw gil at the mob to make their damage increase, thats the imbalance. SE needs to come up with a real solution to this imbalance, not nerf RNG because they initially created it too poweful for the other melee jobs in the game to compete, this is just retarded
 
I normally never post anything negative cause who really gives a fuck but this upcoming "update" *ahem (gimp) but this shit has me quite pissed as I've spent well over 20mil on my rng. And wanted to vent.

Everyone who thinks the rng gimp is needed should go ahead and ram their fucking heads up their ass. And for those that don't ram their heads up it, should consider themselves lucky I don't know where they fucking live! :D

Everyone who thinks this was needed is either A. Some gimped fuck who is jealous that they can't make enough gil to have a well equipped ranger or B. Some jackass who doesn't know shit and should go spend 20 mil+ lvling whatever pansy job they are. (Oh wait only other job that costs shit loads is NIN)

WTF are you talking about that it's not gimping ranger?!?!
Soon, the distance of the monster from the player will determine the damage and accuracy of ranged attacks. This determination will vary from weapon to weapon, as will the ideal distance for maximum damage. In addition, the higher the monster's level is with regard to the player, the less damage will be dealt with a ranged attack. This system is similar to that of melee attacks, but the difference in damage will not be as great.
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Does that mean that ranged attacks will do more damage? Since they're "not" gimping rng? We'll be doing less per shot and wasting the same shit loads of cash on ammo? Wht not gimp BLM while they're at it too? They're even more powerful than rng's are. Find me one rng who isn't a gimped fuck who's happy with this, and I'll show a liar witha gaping hole punched through their face.

Now i'm not saying that RNG are going to be worthless after update but they won't be as powerful. XP will be slower and loads more gil will be wasted on extra ammo.　Also, what if the it's bad enough that the importance of ranger's roles in gods, etc. is decerased? Not saying it will be that bad, but if it is..... I'm going to drive a van loaded with explosives into the SE's headquarters and........ :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil:
 
im SO happy about this, NIN tanks are the only thing that i hate in this game inside of partys... outside of the random annoying tell that says [Raise] [Please] or [Party?]. now all thats left is giving RDM tier two enf. spells, giving other mages refresh style spells, and making BLM just a tad weaker, then the game will be even enough! :lol:
 
Reality said:
ninja's spamming shurikens could hold hate rather easily, even without a thief in the party, but nobody ever does this because the price of decent level shurikens is just insane (i haven't figured out why they put this weapon in the game, yet make it completely unusuable by anyone, NA or JP, due to its cost to produce)

as for rangers "needing a nerf", hmm.. where to begin

lets start off with SE admitting they made the job imbalanced to begin with, and continued to strengthen the job even through the level 75 cap update (adding a 5th arrow to Barrage), did some kind of management change happen at SE within the last year and a half that i wasn't aware of, that decided the old crew wasn't doing things right, so we have to correct their mistakes by weakening the job? i have a better idea, why not strengthen the other jobs instead of nerfing ours? yes, we do pay gil to do our job, is that enough reason to allow RNG to outdamage every other job? of course it is. the problem the OTHER melee jobs have is they aren't given the OPTION to throw gil at the mob to make their damage increase, thats the imbalance. SE needs to come up with a real solution to this imbalance, not nerf RNG because they initially created it too poweful for the other melee jobs in the game to compete, this is just retarded
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[sarcasm]I shot my Bomb Core. Sure we have the option ;;[/sarcasm]


But seriously, this might not even be that big a nerf. Why is everyone whining before the update?
 
Reality said:
ninja's spamming shurikens could hold hate rather easily, even without a thief in the party, but nobody ever does this because the price of decent level shurikens is just insane (i haven't figured out why they put this weapon in the game, yet make it completely unusuable by anyone, NA or JP, due to its cost to produce)

as for rangers "needing a nerf", hmm.. where to begin

lets start off with SE admitting they made the job imbalanced to begin with, and continued to strengthen the job even through the level 75 cap update (adding a 5th arrow to Barrage), did some kind of management change happen at SE within the last year and a half that i wasn't aware of, that decided the old crew wasn't doing things right, so we have to correct their mistakes by weakening the job? i have a better idea, why not strengthen the other jobs instead of nerfing ours? yes, we do pay gil to do our job, is that enough reason to allow RNG to outdamage every other job? of course it is. the problem the OTHER melee jobs have is they aren't given the OPTION to throw gil at the mob to make their damage increase, thats the imbalance. SE needs to come up with a real solution to this imbalance, not nerf RNG because they initially created it too poweful for the other melee jobs in the game to compete, this is just retarded
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Isn't it a 6th arrow?
 
wow, other DDs might get invs more often ... so sad for rngs :roll:
Cry me a river, build a bridge, and get the hell over it. the update's not even in yet and people are going ballistic ...
 
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