Ninja or Paladin >.<;

@52 elemental wheel will do more damage than my melee will.

sata is cool, but with the retards coming through the 50's i think i'd rather have a couple of heavy hitters. post 60 i will enjoy thfs more since there will be no need to set up sata.

war/nins are a favorite of mine, and whoever can open up distortion for them, or a mnk to close fusion and i'll have a good time. the whm can dish out some nice mb's to fusion, one whm was doing 350 on banishga 2 i think, and about 200 on holy, not bad when you add in the blm's damage.
 
When im in SAM i would like a PLD because i dont turn the mob with a Tachi: Enpi... with PLD i would accually have to try to get hate off of him
 
40-60 or so the Elemental Wheel is hot.

Post 60 any Ninja that uses it is a noob. Plain and simple. There are 2 cases I can think of : Soften the mob up to land slow, or MB that's it.

Paralyze, Slow, Blind, Zerk/Warcry, melee and voke are all a Ninja ever really needs to use post 60. Most of the time they won't even get the time to throw all 3 out there unless they are in a DRK and DRG melee garbage party that takes 3 minutes per kill.
 
99% of my deaths in parties are with NIN tanks, and you can only jump hate every so often -.- So...no more NINs for me, unless I'm healing, then it gives me time to go get cookies. Can't say anything about WAR tanks since I haven't ptd with one post 30.
 
BLM here, you rdy

here is the best set up for xp i've ever seen

NO AoE
NIN THF SAM DRK RDM BLM

AoE
NIN RNG DRK SMN BLM RDM

No, i can balence my hate even on a ninja w/out a thf o.O and 2 others pounding the hell out of it :p


RDM best seen xp
RDM WHM WAR WAR RNG RNG

Paladin's are UBER in endgame but every mob has its ups and downs. i'd like the see a paladin tank some of the mobs that pound for 200 a hit even with max vit and earth staffs. then you go ones with double attack that shred a ninja the pieces. One isn't better then the other, it vairies just like every situation. but as far as a paladin holding better hate then a ninja PFF lie. I do like cover though lol!!

It was mostly stated best though on average
Paladin = end game
Ninja = fast xp
 
Re: BLM here, you rdy

passions said:
i'd like the see a paladin tank some of the mobs that pound for 200 a hit even with max vit and earth staffs. then you go ones with double attack that shred a ninja the pieces. One isn't better then the other, it vairies just like every situation. but as far as a paladin holding better hate then a ninja PFF lie. I do like cover though lol!!

It was mostly stated best though on average
Paladin = end game
Ninja = fast xp
Click to expand...

Theres no such thing as "max vit." The only "max" you can get is running out of VIT+ equipment to obtain, but the effect never really peaks out.


the rest of your post is a matter of opinion. You can still have a fast exp PT with a Paladin.
 
there is probably a reason why nin owns vt mobs and pld owning it+ mobs.

me personaly i think nin if played properly with party cooperation is the best fucking tank period.

pld have abilities and cure.

nin have damage to deal if played right.
 
lol all these PLDs coming in here saying PLD is better. now hear it from a 71 PLD 23 NIN....NIN is a better tank >.> I've seen them work while leveling my samurai. and wow some of these guys wont even take a hit. Amazing Amazing
 
how many times are we gonna sit at this circus. i prefer nin's yes, but thats only cause i can be more then a "refresh bitch" with them in a party. i sub blm always and i do love to MB skillchains. and a nin is one less caster to refresh. but thats my personal oppinon.

i've partied with plds just as often as nin's but because i prefer nin doesnt mean avoid pld tanks. i just know i wont MB as much if he's my tank. i respect them both. and since my GF is anccy to try being a pld i'm gonna have more chances to party with the job.
 
i really cant understand how people are going to sit here ans say nin is better then pld or pld better then nin.

like i said before i will say again nin will keep hate better then a pld on a vt mob if played correctly.

pld will hold hate better then nin on a it+mob.

basicly they both do their jobs well but with different situation's
and based on how the party is set up, because u can be a godlike nin all the hell u want but if the party and u cant work together it means u and the party fail at doing their jobs period.
 
Re: BLM here, you rdy

Skaw said:
passions said:
i'd like the see a paladin tank some of the mobs that pound for 200 a hit even with max vit and earth staffs. then you go ones with double attack that shred a ninja the pieces. One isn't better then the other, it vairies just like every situation. but as far as a paladin holding better hate then a ninja PFF lie. I do like cover though lol!!

It was mostly stated best though on average
Paladin = end game
Ninja = fast xp
Click to expand...

Theres no such thing as "max vit." The only "max" you can get is running out of VIT+ equipment to obtain, but the effect never really peaks out.


the rest of your post is a matter of opinion. You can still have a fast exp PT with a Paladin.
Click to expand...

excues me if my lingo isn't correct max VIT means the most they can get from equipment. and yes i gave my examples the show my best xp parties HELLO thats what this is asking for. Put some info backing why you say what you say and maybe you'll be helpfull. Untill then stop typing cause your not helping anyone.
Another thing YES there are mobs that hit to hard for paladins the tank, which is why you see on ffxi.sompage.com recomends paladin tank recomends ninja tank {Please Check It} before bashing my help to the orginal question.
 
in regaurds to some of the things i saw pere and nibble say, here's my PLD guide of PTing w/ SATA

since i leveled pld back before the days of *OMIGOSH RANGERS EVERYWHERE* i did a whole lot of work pld thf rng PT's. And i'd have to say it's the easiest time i've ever had playing pld. One of the most important things about playing pld is being to control hate, not going balls to the wall with as much enmity gear as you can get and not letting the mob move off of you (while that's nice in some PT setups, in most it doesn't help). gernerally speaking, this is how you work with thf's as a pld. Mob comes in, initial voke, TA from the thf, flash, 1 JA (shield bash, warcry, etc etc) then a cure 3 or 4 should tied you over until the rng uses arching arrow (assuming your doing SC around 3/4 of the mobs HP) if your waiting until later in the fight simply space out your vokes more, voke ever 45 or 50 seconds instead of every minute. And now with all the enmity gear abound it's even easier to accomplish this, most likely not needing to voke again, simply maintaining your own HP will give you enough hate to keep it until the SC is ready.

The definition of a good pld isn't one that the mob never moves off of, because that's not always what's best for a given PT setup. Guaging how much hate you have and knowing how to keep it on that razor thin line of being able to keep hate and then loose it when needed is what will make you a good tank in the eyes of anybody that is THF or /THF and the blm's that accompany you in the PT.

(Note that this is for XP only, endgame if you lost hate you need to need to turn it up somehow :P )
 
Peregrine said:
Nibble said:
well first of all.. its not the tanks job to know how to play with you.. its YOUR job (as a thf) to know how to play with the tank..
Click to expand...

And yet the paladin has to know how to play with a thief, or the party with a thief in it will fail no matter what the thief does. Period. When you, as a paladin, claim that you can hold hate from me sa/ta'ing onto the partner, that's what I'm talking about. No, you really can't. He'll tank and he'll die and THEN you MAY get the mob back from the WHITE MAGE.
Click to expand...

ok lets see here.. ask anyone who's PT'd with my pld.. I KEEP HATE FROM A GALKA MONK WITH GOOD GEAR BEING SATA VIPER BITED ON BY A GOOD THIEF WITH EXTREMELY GOOD GEAR.. if you call me a liar again im going to castrate you.. im a wall of hate.. i took hate from a JP Paladin using invincible in my party (why we had 2 plds was behidn me, but meh) anyhow.. he used invincible at 100% of the mobs HP.. continued to do paladin things (flash voke etc) and i had hate by 75% of the mobs health.. KNOW YOUR JOB~ another part of being a pld is knowing how/when you will need to lose hate..

Peregrine said:
Nibble said:
so your saying.. babysit y our ninja so that they get used to not using ninja tools & elemental wheel? stupid.. flat out.. stupid..
Click to expand...

And you're flat-out stupid for spamming an elemental wheel that does NOTHING for the party but keep hate when keeping hate is unbelievably easy with a hate controller in the party. I can put hate on them enough to make a firaga III disappear in the wind. Their time is better spent with debilitation and meleeing. Elemental wheel is for nins who are too cocky to play with hate controllers. It's not babysitting. It's called synergy. No nin within 60 feet of me needs to waste time with elemental wheels. They can DD and actually do something that aides in killing the mob. The blm is protected just the same. The only thing a ninja has to do in a party that I'm in...stand there and cast shadows. Anything else, like DD'ing and debilitating--fringe. I'd rather them not spam like thoughtless robots after I just put 1200 damage worth of hate on them.
Click to expand...
god your stupid.. geezus.. even look at meezes post under your's
meeze: @52 elemental wheel will do more damage than my melee will

see this? d~uh.. does nothing for the party indeed~

Vang: 40-60 or so the Elemental Wheel is hot.

~nib

p.s. learn your job peregrine.. did i mention i hold hate from a RNG being SATA VB'd on (before the nerf) durring a distortion skillchain? (no, i didnt get any SATA that entire fight, rng couldnt 1st voke :twisted: )
 
Re: BLM here, you rdy

passions said:
excues me if my lingo isn't correct max VIT means the most they can get from equipment. and yes i gave my examples the show my best xp parties HELLO thats what this is asking for. Put some info backing why you say what you say and maybe you'll be helpfull. Untill then stop typing cause your not helping anyone.
Another thing YES there are mobs that hit to hard for paladins the tank, which is why you see on ffxi.sompage.com recomends paladin tank recomends ninja tank {Please Check It} before bashing my help to the orginal question.
Click to expand...


Uh, because there is no right or wrong answer to this. Thats why. They're both good. They're equals. I gave my opinion. Want it again?

They're both equal in tank ability, NIN allows for more work to be done due to less healing required, while a Paladin has more at their disposal to set things right if something goes wrong.. Mijin Gakure will not save a failing party/a teammate who gained too much hate. Invincible and Cover will.

The only restriction on VIT gear is at SE's discretion, otherwise, there virtually is no maximum VIT value, unlike Defense.
 
let me say for starters that i've never partied with pere so i have no idea how he is in a party. i have, on the other hand, partied with nibble a few times and find her quite capable. and anyone that says otherwise imo is either:

a. jealous

or

b. stupid

my 2 cents.
 
Thats why all the PLDs level Ninja as their second main or for a subjob... because Ninjas suuuck sooooo bad right?

I haven't even unlocked PLD.
 
Ninjutsu skill means nothing at all unless you're using the elemental wheel, which any non-braindead war will not be doing. You are correct on the shadows thing - we only get 6 shadows pre-74.
Click to expand...
Ninjutsu skill means everything. Ninjutsu, just like all other magic skills, decrease the interruption rate. That's why its much harder to get Utsusemi up with NIN as sub instead of main.

As for the topic... I think a good PLD is equall to a good NIN. there are situations where I'd prefer a PLD tank over a NIN tank though. An example of this is mandragoras. PLD tanks > NIN tanks on them.

However, on slow hitting mobs, or high-damaging mobs, I'd prefer a NIN, since they can easily tank them with taking none to little damage.

As for holding hate, it's easier for a PLD to hold hate, but a NIN can hold hate just as easy, if not even better, then a PLD. I have to say though, that up to 50 I prefer WAR/NINx2 tanks. All parties I've had with WAR/NINx2 at lower levels rocked. I haven't tried it past 50, but I can assume it's good too.
 
Uzor said:
Ninjutsu skill means nothing at all unless you're using the elemental wheel, which any non-braindead war will not be doing. You are correct on the shadows thing - we only get 6 shadows pre-74.
Click to expand...
Ninjutsu skill means everything. Ninjutsu, just like all other magic skills, decrease the interruption rate. That's why its much harder to get Utsusemi up with NIN as sub instead of main.
Click to expand...
I didn't know that, thanks for the info. Given the situation of war/nin though, I still get interrupted 99% of the time with capped ninjutsu, so again for a war/nin it's still very useless.
 
that just means timing needs to be worked out. in the early nin lvls a back up voker is almost always needed. and 2 nin parties are a gift in the dunes and qufim. nin's run into the most trouble in kazham when tanking mandies. those things are a bitch to tank as a nin cause they hit like 2 to 3 times a turn. i've managed to make it work, barely mosty cause of having a back up voker. is it so hard to continue into that later lvls?

im asking honestly cause i dont know. my nin is still in kazham lvl wise and i plan to take it further soon as i can buy or get Ni.
 
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