Nintendo Revolution gets a new name...

Direwolf said:
I am... hesitant about anything involving nintendo these days. After the bitter disapointment that has been zelda for the last... 10? years now, I really have lossed faith with the company. I wanted my zelda games... What happened to Ocrianica of Time 2? And that Shadow game... Never really did figure out what the hell was going on...

Well, first off, if you didn't like Majora's Mask then you are probably a fan of Ocarina of Time, NOT Zelda.

Second, Shadow the Hedgehog was made by SEGA and is multiplatorm. How the fuck are you going to pin that down as a mistake by Nintendo?

And now a system with some weird name with an even weirder controller? I really just do not see it being able to stand against the Xbox and the PS3. I see another Sega Saturn in the making.

Saturn's circumstances were WILDLY different from the majority of other consoles. Don't compare other systems to Saturn.
 
"Nintendo Oui? That French? Get it out of here and bring me m'goddamned Freedome Fries!"

Now that it's out of my system, I'll say I think the name is silly. I'll still buy one and call it Revolution under my breath, though.
 
Oh, by the way, I agree that the name is silly.

Then again, 360? Eesh, gimme a break.
 
CubsWoo said:
You can tell a name sucks when most of the Nintendo fanboys say "THE NAME DOESN'T MATTER" instead of "Screw you guys, Wii is an awesome name Nintendo can do no wrong lalalalalala."

well, I'm an Nintendo fan, some would even say Fanboy. And I would admit that if I am a fanboy of anythiung it is Nintendo. And I like Wii, wierd as all hell and don't make sense but it's fun. But I didn't like the name "Gamecube" I had a game with an incredible 50 games! >.> I was young so I believed that bull, but it was 50 game demos. And to get the full version of any game you had to pay $9.99 per game you want to Aztec games. So when the gamecube came out I had a bit of a problem with it's name.

Wii is a wierd name, but, isn't Nintendo or Famicon, Hell go do some research on how Sony got their name. On the brightside, Wii already has a Theme song, lol.
http://wiigonads.ytmnd.com/
 
I don't think it's that bad, granted it's not he best but neither is "X-Box" "Gamecube" or "360." And by the way being a nintendo crapper is just as shitty as being a 'fanboy'. Someone who actively seeks and shits on nintendo threads just because it's nintendo is just as biased as someone who loves nothing but, btw.
I love the way it looks when it's written, from a designers perspective it's a great looking word, it may sound weird but there are going to be some bitchin looking advertisements to accompnay it.
 
A rose by any other name.
 
Sabia said:
I don't think it's that bad, granted it's not he best but neither is "X-Box" "Gamecube" or "360." And by the way being a nintendo crapper is just as shitty as being a 'fanboy'. Someone who actively seeks and shits on nintendo threads just because it's nintendo is just as biased as someone who loves nothing but, btw.
I love the way it looks when it's written, from a designers perspective it's a great looking word, it may sound weird but there are going to be some bitchin looking advertisements to accompnay it.

Is it wrong to point out that Nintendo's home console division has been defying the odds by continually sabotaging itself for over ten years now? They went from the 800lb gorilla juggernaut gaming company where you didn't call it playing 'video games,' you called it 'playing Nintendo,' and now they're fallen so far behind the curve and gamer opinion is close to rock bottom, and they take a name the people, by and large loved for their new console - and turn it into psuedo-iFaggotry that people are going to be ashamed to ask for at Gamestop? Public opinion was already sour on the Revolution.

This just reminds me of when the Mortal Kombat blood turned to sweat. Or how gamers wanted cartridges instead of optical media. Or when the GBA shipped without a backlight (but then again, the handheld division can make ten different versions of the same product and people will buy three of the same handheld just because it looks 'prettier,' or in the case of the DS, lie and say they aren't making a slimline DS and then a month later announce it in Japan) or how the lack of online capabilities and DVD-media makes the console better, not worse.

I will admit, Nintendo proved me wrong with the DS. I still think it's gimmicky and haven't bought one, but then again, the handheld division doesn't normally shoot itself in the foot. As a matter of fact, if they scrapped the Rev/wii and just poured all the money into making more quality handheld products I don't think anyone would mind.
 
Well, as with anything new in the gaming world lots of photoshopping has been going around. This is probably my favourite one so far.

wii3.gif
 
CubsWoo said:
Is it wrong to point out that Nintendo's home console division has been defying the odds by continually sabotaging itself for over ten years now? They went from the 800lb gorilla juggernaut gaming company where you didn't call it playing 'video games,' you called it 'playing Nintendo,' and now they're fallen so far behind the curve and gamer opinion is close to rock bottom, and they take a name the people, by and large loved for their new console - and turn it into psuedo-iFaggotry that people are going to be ashamed to ask for at Gamestop? Public opinion was already sour on the Revolution.

Actually, if you do some research, back when Nintendo was the 800lb gorilla juggernaut, they used scare tactics with store chains and threatened to pull their product if the stores sold any competitors' hardware (directly resulting in the rather dismal failure of the Sega Master System in the US). After several lawsuits and a LOT of problems for Nintendo (but Nintendo never actually lost a case - Nintendo has one of the most scarily powerful legal departments of any company in the industry), the subsequent generation rolled around and had the Super Nintendo competing with the Genesis - and the history books record this battle as an effective tie - but the Genesis was actually ahead in sales for several months before StarFox secured SNES's power in the eyes of the consumer.

I digress, slightly. Anyway. "Playing Nintendo" was an apt description because at the time, every company that came before the NES was gone (with the sole exception of Intellivision), and the Master System was only sold by very small chains that couldn't afford to stock NES and its games. There WERE no other choices at the time for most consumers.

This just reminds me of when the Mortal Kombat blood turned to sweat. Or how gamers wanted cartridges instead of optical media. Or when the GBA shipped without a backlight (but then again, the handheld division can make ten different versions of the same product and people will buy three of the same handheld just because it looks 'prettier,' or in the case of the DS, lie and say they aren't making a slimline DS and then a month later announce it in Japan) or how the lack of online capabilities and DVD-media makes the console better, not worse.

Nintendo was banking more on the Family-Friendly side of things with Mortal Kombat - and for a good reason, because at the time, there would be no indication on a home console game of the content within. When MK appeared for home systems, the ESRB had not yet formed. The original Japanese console is actually called the "Family Computer" - or Famicom. The idea here was that punching someone and seeing blood fly out of it - while more correct than sweat - was not a "family" deal.

Shortly after Mortal Kombat (the uncensored Genesis version) and a less-known game titled Night Trap (early Sega CD title) became available, several lawsuits were filed against the game companies. The ESRB was formed to appease the indignant parents, but we all know the issue is still rather hot today.


Nintendo 64 had a much larger issue than the cartridge media, which I won't get into because it'll probably go over most of your heads, but suffice it to say, N64's already crippled system performance would've been dismal with an optical drive. Nintendo was banking on more people preferring fast load times to fancy CGI, and unfortunately they were wrong, but history always favours the winners. Nintendo was right, though, as there are a lot of gamers who do strongly prefer N64's exceptional loading speed. Some PS1 games (and more recently also PS2 games) have absurd loading times which really break the flow of the games. Sadly, N64's difficult architecture turned many developers away from the system and even most of the people obsessed with loading times in the end concede that N64's library was sorely lacking.

Not only that, but especially with the shocking success of Final Fantasy 7, American gamers became far more aware of and familiar with RPGs, one of the few formats that really demands a huge amount of storage and graphics throughput.

I'm going to go on an ironic tangent for a moment here. RPGs tend to favour systems with less raw processing power and more graphical/system throughput, as well as memory. The really ironic thing about the Nintendo 64's design was that the Super Nintendo is heralded as one of the greatest systems of all time for RPGs.. and rightly so, as its design was, in fact, catered toward the increasingly popular RPG genre (in Japan, of course - America didn't catch on until FF7). It had a very slow central processor - 3.4MHz, barely enough to get by - but a graphics chip and audio coprocessor that were years ahead of the curve. Genesis, on the other hand, was the exact opposite - a very primitive empty shell of a rasteriser, an FM synthesis POS sound chip, but a screaming fast 16MHz processor (who remebers the old marketing catchphrase - "Blast Processing" lol). The irony of this situation was that Nintendo decided instead to opt for a more CPU-centric design with the N64, coupled with cartridge media. Terrible for RPGs, but better for the action games that seemed to be popular among the competitors' products. Oops.


GBA shipping without a backlight was actually a more correct decision than most people seem to realise. If you look at the previous history of handhelds - Game Boy vs. Lynx, Lynx had a backlit screen, which won? Game Boy vs. Game Gear, Game Gear had a coloured and backlit screen, which won? Game Boy vs. Nomad - Sega simultaneously cannibalized their own Game Gear market here (I won't get into the story of Sega's fuckups - that can go somewhere else) and had such a huge price tag... which won?

The biggest issue that had people still buying the terrifyingly inferior Game Boy over the competitors? Battery life. There's also the issue of the Game Gear's screen sucking monkey cock, but as I said, Sega's fuckups - another time

The commonly available screen technology at the time of GBA's release was such that if they had included a backlit screen, it would have toasted batteries more than four times faster. As-is, a classic GBA can approach 15 hours on a pair of AA batteries, which is magnificent... but backlighting needs a gigantic amount of power, so you could easy knock that down to 3-5 hours tops on a pair of AA's. I know I, for one, went through an absolutely hellish number of batteries on my GBA. Who the fuck would prefer spending and soaking up four times more batteries?! I know I sure wouldn't!

Now, the Afterburner project (aka Portablemonopoly) showed Nintendo that a front-lit solution was viable on the GBA's reflective HD-TFT - two and a half years after GBA's release. After Nintendo saw the technology, what did we get? The incomparably successful GBA-SP, which, in retrospect, proves that Nintendo made the right decision when they released the GBA in the first place. The SP incorporated a Li-Ion battery (which had only recently become economically viable in such a small, high-volume commodity package); without the front-light on, SP can last up to 17-18 hours. Leave it on permanently and that goes down to about 9-11 - very nearly cutting the life in half. Li-Ion batteries are generally considered more efficient than alkaline batteries, and front-lit solutions consume less power than backlights. Please don't make me spell it out for you.

The people that whined about GBA's unlit screen were primarily a vocal minority.


Finally - the GOD (which stands for Gamecube Optical Disc). Piracy has always been one of Nintendo's highest concerns; cartridge copying in the SNES era was more common than most people seem to believe, and NES's boot code was cracked and used for quite a huge number of unlicensed games. N64 was difficult enough to program, and PS1 so easy, that bootleggers shied away from it (incidentally, this was the final but least significant reason why N64 stuck with cartridges - no matter how easy it may become to copy a cartridge, it's still easier to copy media as ubiquitous as a CD).

The GOD was developed primarily as an anti-piracy measure; it was also developed in a mini format to minimise loading times (what a coincidence!) by eliminating potentially long, cross-disc seeks from the equation (some GCN games still have issues with this - listen to the drive during cutscenes in Eternal Darkness! - but these are few and far between). To that end, Nintendo was disturbingly successful, once again. PS2 was modded within weeks of its release. Xbox was modded within a week of its release, with a software mod coming only weeks later. GCN didn't get cracked to run commercial games until Phantasy Star Online was tinkered with, and that method required having the game disc image on a PC, with a network cord attached to the GCN's very rare network adapter, and couldn't run many games, crashed on most, and had massive slowdown issues with the rest.

It wasn't until about a year ago that the GCN hardware actually got modded to play backup discs. Four years. I'd put money down that that's quite possibly the longest any original console design has ever gone unable to run backups... very impressive.* There's one problem with this assertion, which I will note shortly.

The size of the GODs barely affected Nintendo at all, by the way. Any game that needed more space simply spread across multiple GODs, the first game being Resident Evil, and there are some fairly huge Gamecube games (Tales of Symphonia comes to mind).

Not being able to play DVD video was a marketing bullet point Nintendo lacked by the time they launched. The DVD player in PS2 was much bigger because at the time, in Japan, DVD players were very rarely found in peoples' homes. In the US, the majority of PS2 owners already owned a DVD set top box at its release, and that number only increased by the time Gamecube launched.

Admittedly, Gamecube having DVD playback would've been a nice side feature, but as noted earlier, there's a piracy problem, and the Panasonic Q turned out to be very vulnerable to it. Within a month of Q's release in Asia, the good old Chinese cracking crew had a method for backing GOD's up onto regular DVDs and playing them normally in the Q.

I will admit, Nintendo proved me wrong with the DS. I still think it's gimmicky and haven't bought one, but then again, the handheld division doesn't normally shoot itself in the foot. As a matter of fact, if they scrapped the Rev/wii and just poured all the money into making more quality handheld products I don't think anyone would mind.

I think I would mind. The DS is amazing, but there's always a breaking point between hardware quality and battery life, and DS is straddling that line very well. PSP, naturally, crossed it with a gigantic stride, like all the handhelds that Nintendo defeated on its way to the top of the handheld game industry. The sole reason PSP is seeing any real success is the word "Playstation". That, and peoples' pathetic obsession with graphics... yet, people can't identify bad motion blur when they see it? Fucking retards... that isn't image quality dammit



Sorry for the long post. >_> I get really long-winded about this stuff. Nerding out is my business. @_@
 
Not going to flame or praise or anything, but this system can make for the best conversations ever.

I was at work tonight, and I told my friend Mike about the name change. Then later I just said "Hey Mike, want to come over and play with my Wii?" and this girl was just all "WHAT?!".

And in other news, Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3 are also stupid names. At least 360 is still a little more innovative than a "HAY GUYS THIS IS THIRD SYSTEM WE MAKE IT THLEE LOLOLOLOL ^^"
 
Well... the name of the system is Playstation. The fact that they dont want to change the name and would rather just add another word or number onto it is much more acceptable imo.

Nintendo never named their console is the problem... they used their company name as the name of the console and every system after that they added some word that had nothing to do with anything.
 
decidence said:
Well... the name of the system is Playstation. The fact that they dont want to change the name and would rather just add another word or number onto it is much more acceptable imo.

Nintendo never named their console is the problem... they used their company name as the name of the console and every system after that they added some word that had nothing to do with anything.

Side note: I know a handful of people that still called the GCN "Dolphin" until a good two years after its release.


Edit: Added:
Swishiee said:
"HAY GUYS THIS IS THIRD SYSTEM WE MAKE IT THLEE LOLOLOLOL ^^"

^- FTW
 
decidence said:
Well... the name of the system is Playstation. The fact that they dont want to change the name and would rather just add another word or number onto it is much more acceptable imo.
so... NINTENDO, Super NINTENDO, NINTENDO 64, the NINTENDO Game Cube, and the NINTENDO Wii?
 
Nice long ass post, Tag.

For anyone that is interested Tag is teaching a video game history class at MIT over the summer. ({lie} But I guess taught a class for anime there once. Tag teaching and Video game history class would be more educational.)

Also, the Lynx had color and a back-light. But, mine sucked cauase half it's controls stopped working after a year.

And, you forgot to mention MK2 was released on the SNES once the ESRB was out and rated it. With blood and fatalities.

I would also like to point out that Nintendo is the only company out of the 3 current ones that makes a profit rom the video games. Sony and Microsoft both lose a great deal of money from selling the consoles and hardware. Where as Nintendo sells it's consoles at lower prices without a profit lose. Say what you want about Nintendo's screw ups, They're still here after all that and maing money. Nintendo will not go as Sony or Microsoft would like, atleast not without a hell of a fight.

edit: wanted to add this, but didn't want to double post.
Nintendo never named their console is the problem... they used their company name as the name of the console and every system after that they added some word that had nothing to do with anything.

In Japan the Nintendo was called the Famicom, the SNES the Super Famicom, N64 I have no idea, and as Tag stated GCN was originally the Dolphin, but not sure that counts cause I think it was the development name. I like the name Dolphin.
 
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Ah, my colleague brings up an important point.

Nintendo has also operated on profits from day one, with the sole exception of one quarterly report in which every single Japanese company posted a loss, primarily attributed to a low spike in the value of the Yen.

No other company in the industry comes close to that. If I'm not mistaken, the Xbox classic STILL hasn't turned a profit.


Edit: Added:
Blaine said:
so... NINTENDO, Super NINTENDO, NINTENDO 64, the NINTENDO Game Cube, and the NINTENDO Wii?

Nintendo->Super Nintendo is actually an upgrade more than a new system outright. The core CPU of the SFC is actually the next model up from the FC's (6502 -> 658c16, you can look it up, there's actually a fully functional 6502 core at the heart of 658c16 - though unfortunately it's debugged and thus can't execute most FC code). N64 was unfortunate, and was intended as a buzzword.. but hey, it still wasn't "SFC 2".

"Nintendo" Gamecube is as much the system's full name as the "Sony" Playstation (2) and "Microsoft" Xbox (360).

Same with the "Nintendo" Wii.
 
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After reading their statement at Nintendo.com, I think the name is great. I'm going to get it on launch day mainy because Nintendo seems to be the only company who releases a system worth being released at the time. Where Sony and MS seem to fix the problems for the people who wait to buy one.
 
Tagrineth said:
Actually, if you do some research, back when Nintendo was the 800lb gorilla juggernaut, they used scare tactics with store chains and threatened to pull their product if the stores sold any competitors' hardware (directly resulting in the rather dismal failure of the Sega Master System in the US). After several lawsuits and a LOT of problems for Nintendo (but Nintendo never actually lost a case - Nintendo has one of the most scarily powerful legal departments of any company in the industry), the subsequent generation rolled around and had the Super Nintendo competing with the Genesis - and the history books record this battle as an effective tie - but the Genesis was actually ahead in sales for several months before StarFox secured SNES's power in the eyes of the consumer.

Remember that the Genesis had about two years worth of lead time on the SNES. Then again, even being a young teenager back then I was sick of all the console war bullshit so I tried to shy away from it.

I digress, slightly. Anyway. "Playing Nintendo" was an apt description because at the time, every company that came before the NES was gone (with the sole exception of Intellivision), and the Master System was only sold by very small chains that couldn't afford to stock NES and its games. There WERE no other choices at the time for most consumers.

"Playing Nintendo" was also strong into the birth of the N64. I can remember several kids/parents calling their PS1 a "Nintendo" well into 1997. It's not like the mantle was taken away from Nintendo - they did their fair share of dropping the ball.



Nintendo was banking more on the Family-Friendly side of things with Mortal Kombat - and for a good reason, because at the time, there would be no indication on a home console game of the content within. When MK appeared for home systems, the ESRB had not yet formed. The original Japanese console is actually called the "Family Computer" - or Famicom. The idea here was that punching someone and seeing blood fly out of it - while more correct than sweat - was not a "family" deal.

Shortly after Mortal Kombat (the uncensored Genesis version) and a less-known game titled Night Trap (early Sega CD title) became available, several lawsuits were filed against the game companies. The ESRB was formed to appease the indignant parents, but we all know the issue is still rather hot today.

Sega was more than happy with regulating themselves as a result of MK, and Nintendo could have also chosen to simply not carry the game on the platform (which, imo, would have sent a stronger statement than pussifying the blood and fatalities.) And it didn't take long for Nintendo to see the error when Genesis sales crushed the SNES sales of the game when they let MK2 on the console totally uncensored (also because the gameplay on the Genesis version was more faithful to the arcade game, but that's not really the point.)


Nintendo 64 had a much larger issue than the cartridge media, which I won't get into because it'll probably go over most of your heads, but suffice it to say, N64's already crippled system performance would've been dismal with an optical drive. Nintendo was banking on more people preferring fast load times to fancy CGI, and unfortunately they were wrong, but history always favours the winners. Nintendo was right, though, as there are a lot of gamers who do strongly prefer N64's exceptional loading speed. Some PS1 games (and more recently also PS2 games) have absurd loading times which really break the flow of the games. Sadly, N64's difficult architecture turned many developers away from the system and even most of the people obsessed with loading times in the end concede that N64's library was sorely lacking.

Are you talking about the graphics cache, the blurry/flat textures, the problems with Z-buffering, etc? But it's not like the other consoles had all that exceptional of an archtecture, either. Try to find a quality 2D fighter on the PS1 (most Capcom fighters were crippled by low available RAM e.g. Marvel vs. Capcom 1, SFA3) or good-looking 3D games on the Saturn.

Not only that, but especially with the shocking success of Final Fantasy 7, American gamers became far more aware of and familiar with RPGs, one of the few formats that really demands a huge amount of storage and graphics throughput.

I'm going to go on an ironic tangent for a moment here. RPGs tend to favour systems with less raw processing power and more graphical/system throughput, as well as memory. The really ironic thing about the Nintendo 64's design was that the Super Nintendo is heralded as one of the greatest systems of all time for RPGs.. and rightly so, as its design was, in fact, catered toward the increasingly popular RPG genre (in Japan, of course - America didn't catch on until FF7). It had a very slow central processor - 3.4MHz, barely enough to get by - but a graphics chip and audio coprocessor that were years ahead of the curve. Genesis, on the other hand, was the exact opposite - a very primitive empty shell of a rasteriser, an FM synthesis POS sound chip, but a screaming fast 16MHz processor (who remebers the old marketing catchphrase - "Blast Processing" lol). The irony of this situation was that Nintendo decided instead to opt for a more CPU-centric design with the N64, coupled with cartridge media. Terrible for RPGs, but better for the action games that seemed to be popular among the competitors' products. Oops.

Agreed. When RPGs exploded from needing just 2MB of cart space for text and 16-bit sound to orchestral scores and FMV, the writing was on the wall for carts. I will admit to busting out the N64 on occasion for the very, very high quality THQ WWF games, however.


GBA shipping without a backlight was actually a more correct decision than most people seem to realise. If you look at the previous history of handhelds - Game Boy vs. Lynx, Lynx had a backlit screen, which won? Game Boy vs. Game Gear, Game Gear had a coloured and backlit screen, which won? Game Boy vs. Nomad - Sega simultaneously cannibalized their own Game Gear market here (I won't get into the story of Sega's fuckups - that can go somewhere else) and had such a huge price tag... which won?

The biggest issue that had people still buying the terrifyingly inferior Game Boy over the competitors? Battery life. There's also the issue of the Game Gear's screen sucking monkey cock, but as I said, Sega's fuckups - another time

Also note that Nintendo had third party support, Sega didn't. Atari didn't. The same reason the Game Boy prevailed despite being terribly inferior is the same reason the Gamecube is squarely in last place this console cycle. But yes, Sega's fuckups, another time.

The commonly available screen technology at the time of GBA's release was such that if they had included a backlit screen, it would have toasted batteries more than four times faster. As-is, a classic GBA can approach 15 hours on a pair of AA batteries, which is magnificent... but backlighting needs a gigantic amount of power, so you could easy knock that down to 3-5 hours tops on a pair of AA's. I know I, for one, went through an absolutely hellish number of batteries on my GBA. Who the fuck would prefer spending and soaking up four times more batteries?! I know I sure wouldn't!

Now, the Afterburner project (aka Portablemonopoly) showed Nintendo that a front-lit solution was viable on the GBA's reflective HD-TFT - two and a half years after GBA's release. After Nintendo saw the technology, what did we get? The incomparably successful GBA-SP, which, in retrospect, proves that Nintendo made the right decision when they released the GBA in the first place. The SP incorporated a Li-Ion battery (which had only recently become economically viable in such a small, high-volume commodity package); without the front-light on, SP can last up to 17-18 hours. Leave it on permanently and that goes down to about 9-11 - very nearly cutting the life in half. Li-Ion batteries are generally considered more efficient than alkaline batteries, and front-lit solutions consume less power than backlights. Please don't make me spell it out for you.

The people that whined about GBA's unlit screen were primarily a vocal minority.

I bought a GBA the Xmas it was released and returned it a week later when the lighting 'solutions' provided by third parties sucked and I couldn't use my portable outside of situations where I could play a console anyway. It took the SP to get me back, but I would have jumped at shorter battery life for a back/frontlit portable on release. The system can play for as long as it wants, but if it can't play where I can play it, it won't play at all and it doesn't matter how long the battery lasts.


Finally - the GOD (which stands for Gamecube Optical Disc). Piracy has always been one of Nintendo's highest concerns; cartridge copying in the SNES era was more common than most people seem to believe, and NES's boot code was cracked and used for quite a huge number of unlicensed games. N64 was difficult enough to program, and PS1 so easy, that bootleggers shied away from it (incidentally, this was the final but least significant reason why N64 stuck with cartridges - no matter how easy it may become to copy a cartridge, it's still easier to copy media as ubiquitous as a CD).

The GOD was developed primarily as an anti-piracy measure; it was also developed in a mini format to minimise loading times (what a coincidence!) by eliminating potentially long, cross-disc seeks from the equation (some GCN games still have issues with this - listen to the drive during cutscenes in Eternal Darkness! - but these are few and far between). To that end, Nintendo was disturbingly successful, once again. PS2 was modded within weeks of its release. Xbox was modded within a week of its release, with a software mod coming only weeks later. GCN didn't get cracked to run commercial games until Phantasy Star Online was tinkered with, and that method required having the game disc image on a PC, with a network cord attached to the GCN's very rare network adapter, and couldn't run many games, crashed on most, and had massive slowdown issues with the rest.

It wasn't until about a year ago that the GCN hardware actually got modded to play backup discs. Four years. I'd put money down that that's quite possibly the longest any original console design has ever gone unable to run backups... very impressive.* There's one problem with this assertion, which I will note shortly.

The size of the GODs barely affected Nintendo at all, by the way. Any game that needed more space simply spread across multiple GODs, the first game being Resident Evil, and there are some fairly huge Gamecube games (Tales of Symphonia comes to mind).

I've never bought this argument. Nintendo has always, always been about having proprietary formats. They can use piracy as the bullet point issue for their carts/GODs, but I nor the public gives a shit about piracy when a PS1 game cost $40-50 and N64 carts were reaching $80 in their heyday. And load times can be mitigated by a good programming team. IIRC GTA:SA has few, if any, load times on either console and most PS2/Xbox games have shorter load times than it takes to zone in or out of any zone in FFXI.

Not being able to play DVD video was a marketing bullet point Nintendo lacked by the time they launched. The DVD player in PS2 was much bigger because at the time, in Japan, DVD players were very rarely found in peoples' homes. In the US, the majority of PS2 owners already owned a DVD set top box at its release, and that number only increased by the time Gamecube launched.

Admittedly, Gamecube having DVD playback would've been a nice side feature, but as noted earlier, there's a piracy problem, and the Panasonic Q turned out to be very vulnerable to it. Within a month of Q's release in Asia, the good old Chinese cracking crew had a method for backing GOD's up onto regular DVDs and playing them normally in the Q.

If Nintendo is making system decisions based on what Hong Kong piracy groups are going to do regardless of difficulty level (as you said, they still cracked the Gamecube despite it being four years old and at the end of its cycle) instead of giving potential buyers a reason to buy their console, that's a problem. What about the lack of online play (and no, the nearly impossible to find broadband adapter for the few games it supported does not count,) was that because they feared softmodding?



I think I would mind. The DS is amazing, but there's always a breaking point between hardware quality and battery life, and DS is straddling that line very well. PSP, naturally, crossed it with a gigantic stride, like all the handhelds that Nintendo defeated on its way to the top of the handheld game industry. The sole reason PSP is seeing any real success is the word "Playstation". That, and peoples' pathetic obsession with graphics... yet, people can't identify bad motion blur when they see it? Fucking retards... that isn't image quality dammit

I own a PSP because of the homebrew community. For about $300 I not only have the capabilities that PSP provides through games/UMD movies, but a portable way to play a fuckton of emulated games. NES emulation is nearly perfect, SNES and Genesis are close to full speed/support, SCUMM engine games, Neo-Geo, homebrew Tetris/Bejeweled/other little things... maybe that wasn't the intent of Sony, but they made a powerful little system and it sold them a system much in the same way people buy an Xbox or an old-make PS2 for the sole purpose of softmodding it/slapping on HDLoader. The DS can do some of those things, but the process is a lot more arduous and has a larger risk of bricking the portable.

Also notice the sharp increase in quality for PSP games - much like how the DS had 2, maybe 3 good games in the first 5 months of launch before things picked up and we stopped seeing tech demos disguised as $40 carts. We'll see if Sony has learned from their early mistakes in the coming years.
 
Remember that the Genesis had about two years worth of lead time on the SNES. Then again, even being a young teenager back then I was sick of all the console war bullshit so I tried to shy away from it.

Yes, and Genesis continued to outsell the SFC until roughly StarFox's release, at which point SFC's sales shot through the roof, basically, ending the generation ever so narrowly ahead of Genesis. History records this battle as a tie.

"Playing Nintendo" was also strong into the birth of the N64. I can remember several kids/parents calling their PS1 a "Nintendo" well into 1997. It's not like the mantle was taken away from Nintendo - they did their fair share of dropping the ball.

That depends on your area. "Playing Nintendo" was only used by Non-gamers in my area until the Playstation took a solid foothold (~1 year after its release), at which point it faded almost completely from my peers' vocabularies. Of course, parents of the time don't know any better, so...

Sega was more than happy with regulating themselves as a result of MK, and Nintendo could have also chosen to simply not carry the game on the platform (which, imo, would have sent a stronger statement than pussifying the blood and fatalities.) And it didn't take long for Nintendo to see the error when Genesis sales crushed the SNES sales of the game when they let MK2 on the console totally uncensored (also because the gameplay on the Genesis version was more faithful to the arcade game, but that's not really the point.)

Nintendo allowed MK2 onto the SFC totally uncensored and very near arcade perfect once software content regulation started spreading. Nintendo was behind Sega in this, as MK1 clearly shows, though - one of a handful of cases where Sega beat Nintendo to the punch. Too bad Sega fucked up so many other things. :(

Nintendo released the butchered MK1 for more or less the same reason Sega of America released the 32X - they wanted the hot new arcade fighter buyable, NOW, on their system. Both had severe negative consequences. LOL.

Are you talking about the graphics cache, the blurry/flat textures, the problems with Z-buffering, etc? But it's not like the other consoles had all that exceptional of an archtecture, either. Try to find a quality 2D fighter on the PS1 (most Capcom fighters were crippled by low available RAM e.g. Marvel vs. Capcom 1, SFA3) or good-looking 3D games on the Saturn.

Actually, no, the true crippling flaw in N64 was its memory architecture. It used a 4MB (expandable to 8MB) unified memory architecture (which Xbox also used), but the big fuckup was Nintendo's decision to cut costs by using RAMBUS's developing DRDRAM interface. The entire N64 system was fighting for that bus, needing to feed that texture buffer, needing to feed the very fast CPU, needing to feed the RCP - but DRDRAM is naturally a very high latency interface, which stalls requests and reduces effective throughput by a terrifying degree as you add more devices. The texture buffer would NOT have been as big an issue had N64 used SDRAM, as textures could have been split into multiple tiles if necessary. The very fast 94.5MHz CPU (compared to PS1's lower model 33.4MHz CPU) could've actually used half its fucking cycles for something. Adding the real meat-and-potatoes RCP ucodes wouldn't have stressed the memory bus to hell.

Also note that the strange extra blurriness on the textures is caused by N64 using a three-sample bilinear filtering pattern (in a triangle) instead of the normal four samples on a line. Brilliant for performance, but hurts image quality just a tad.

Oh, and Nintendo had an adamant policy that N64 had to be the "High IQ" console. ucodes were actually released in dev kits that could render "PS1 quality" triangles and textures, but Nintendo had a strict policy that blocked any submissions that used those ucodes. For reference, homebrewn authors have clocked the N64 hardware as being capable of roughly double the PS1 when brought down to its level... an easy 600-800,000 polys per second, compared to PS1's 300-350k. There were a lot of other higher-performance ucodes that existed, but devs either were not allowed to use them, or were "highly encouraged" to stick with the highest IQ available. Not only that, but most devs were NOT allowed to write their own ucodes for the system, which could have improved optimisation for some games tremendously compared to stock ucodes.

Oh, and high quality 3D games on the Saturn? Panzer Dragoon II and Saga, Shining Force III, and Burning Rangers were three games that were even released in the US that show off some surprisingly powerful 3D capabilities in that little monster of a machine. Duke Nukem 3D and Quake were very impressive re-codes. The planned but unreleased Saturn Shenmue boasts some huge environments with surprising detail, and the unreleased Virtua Fighter III's near-Gold dev shots look f'ing incredible and didn't even use the RAM cartridge. Problem is, same with the N64, the improvements in devkits (the last released devkit, for example, right before Saturn was pulled from US shelves, was the very first one to include libraries for the SCU DSP which improved 3D performance quite a lot - this devkit was not used for any released games at all) came far too late to be useful. Oh, and yes, I own a Saturn and all the aforementioned released games.

Also note that Nintendo had third party support, Sega didn't. Atari didn't. The same reason the Game Boy prevailed despite being terribly inferior is the same reason the Gamecube is squarely in last place this console cycle. But yes, Sega's fuckups, another time.

Actually, Gamecube isn't as far behind as most people want to think. The last several worldwide sales results I looked at put Gamecube slightly ahead of Xbox.

Of course, it's a fair bit behind in the US though, and those are the numbers most significant to us here IN the US... and yes, it's because of the little lunchbox's relative lack of third party support... it's there, but it's NOTHING compared to what PS2 and Xbox have. It's a good thing Wii's situation is looking pretty positive right now, though! Provided you aren't an anti-Nintendo psycho zealot that says every two months that Nintendo is going to pull a Sega. Uh... no... Heh, the best thing about these types is that they always say they "look forward to the games being on other systems" - they basically hope Nintendo becomes a hollow shell of what it once was, while simultaneously acknowledging Nintendo's superior game development. GG guys, way to be "anti" N...

I bought a GBA the Xmas it was released and returned it a week later when the lighting 'solutions' provided by third parties sucked and I couldn't use my portable outside of situations where I could play a console anyway. It took the SP to get me back, but I would have jumped at shorter battery life for a back/frontlit portable on release. The system can play for as long as it wants, but if it can't play where I can play it, it won't play at all and it doesn't matter how long the battery lasts.

Like I said, though - it's really a vocal minority that had so much issue with the GBA. I'll admit that after using properly lit screens (cough, DS, cough) for a long time now, it's much more difficult using my GBA classic - but back when I had it, I used to play it on my school bus. At 6 AM, during sunrise. With a pelican point light that created an annoying glare spot. And yes, I mean playing games like Circle of the Moon.

Then again, maybe my vision was just freakishly good. :D

I've never bought this argument. Nintendo has always, always been about having proprietary formats. They can use piracy as the bullet point issue for their carts/GODs, but I nor the public gives a shit about piracy when a PS1 game cost $40-50 and N64 carts were reaching $80 in their heyday. And load times can be mitigated by a good programming team. IIRC GTA:SA has few, if any, load times on either console and most PS2/Xbox games have shorter load times than it takes to zone in or out of any zone in FFXI.

The longe they can forestall the invasion of piracy, the better. The biggest sales of most high profile releases happen within the first weeks of release. If a console is already cracked and moddable, a much larger percentage of the user base will be able to .torrent the game, burn it, and play away. Stalling the mod community probably helped Gamecube's high profile game sales tremendously, blocking GCN owners from pirating them instead of paying. Lower profile releases also probably got a nice boost - you know, games that less morally sound people are IFFY on paying for, but Nintendo didn't give them a choice on?

The highest I ever paid for an N64 game was $55 - Majora's Mask, right when it was released. Every other N64 game I own was $50 or less. I guess these prices largely depended on the markup at individual stores and locations, though - larger cities might experience slightly larger markup because a higher demand is expected. I noticed this during a week long trip to New York City - one particular store I visited had all new PS2/GC/Xbox games at $55, not the $50 I'm used to seeing, and they didn't seem to have any problems selling them.. even with the 8-9% sales tax.

Oh, and yes, while loading IS fairly programmer-dependant, any optical medium WILL be limited by data throughput due to the sheer maximum speed of the motor, coupled with the usually slow movement speed of the laser eye. PS1 and Saturn are especially bad at this, as they both run at 2X CD-ROM maximum - if they're streaming CD Audio that basically means they have time to fill their read buffer, jump over to some data to preload, and then they have just enough time to preload the same amount of time it took to fill the buffer before it needs to be refilled with more sound data. Saturn was much better off here than PS1, having a dedicated SH-1 processor for the disc I/O, as well as a data buffer roughly 16 times larger than PS1's, but Saturn as a whole was an order of magnitude more difficult to program... so that's somewhat moot really (Castlevania was a big example of this - the Saturn version has extra load times because the preloader was poorly coded in CD rooms, and the map is NOT loaded into memory at all times but has to be re-read from the disc every time it's accessed - shitty programming at work, GG KCEN... why couldn't they have had KCET do it... god...).

The modern systems have dramatically more RAM and data throughput on the drive itself, as well as libraries full of preloading strategies games can use. Many recent games have had tiny, minimal loading times, especially on the Gamecube where the laser movement is negligible even in the worst case scenarios. The Xbox can (and does) use its hard drive to cache data for games - Halo and Halo 2 are programmed to cache maps onto the hard drive as they are accessed, which is why the first time a map is used in a particular session, it takes much longer to load than subsequent plays. PS2 just has a really fast disc drive, as well as a three part central processor, just one part of which can easily be held responsible for I/O (and usually is).

If Nintendo is making system decisions based on what Hong Kong piracy groups are going to do regardless of difficulty level (as you said, they still cracked the Gamecube despite it being four years old and at the end of its cycle) instead of giving potential buyers a reason to buy their console, that's a problem. What about the lack of online play (and no, the nearly impossible to find broadband adapter for the few games it supported does not count,) was that because they feared softmodding?

The longer they can stall the modders, the better the profits will be on games, and the higher the tie-in ratio will stay for GCN owners. They were unable to prevent the AMERICAN mod groups from cracking the stock GCN in the end, but it took them nearly four whole years to do it (actually they were able to run backups as long as a year before mod chips were released, but it took extensive modifications which aren't really marketable!). The Panasonic Q's sales were very poor, except among the (SMALL!) modding communities, and its sales would've been absolutely abysmal here in the US since most coughParents would see the Q, see the Gamecube next to it, recall that they own a set-top DVD player already, and stick with the dramatically cheaper GCN. The easy piracy was basically the final excuse for not bringing the system to a market it would have failed in.


Nintendo's lack of an internal online play strategy this generation was, in the eyes of a gamer, nearly suicidal. In the eyes of a businessman, however, their decision was sound. Look at Xbox Live. Microsoft used to have a projection for when Xbox Live would start earning them money... and it wasn't a good one. Xbox Live pre-360 only had a couple hundred thousand subscribers, and just like the Xbox hardware, MS was bleeding money into the service.

People do want online play. There's no question about that. The problem lies in how cost efficient it is to provide it. Nintendo really, really likes the fact that they're the most consistently profitable company in the entire industry. It's unfortunate, but N needs to maintain its profitability to thrive and maintain its standard of innovation, so an online gaming service was the most obvious and most expendable source of losses.



Oh, and emulation is NOT something that drives system sales on a significant level. I agree that it is by far the PSP's most attractive feature right now. PSP is definitely one to watch, but it does have some of the flaws inherent in the systems that failed to compete with Nintendo. Moddability combined with third party game support IS a lot more attractive than past competition, though. It'll likely end up a fairly hard call, that's for sure, although CURRENTLY the DS has a commanding lead over the PSP.
 
Blaine said:
so... NINTENDO, Super NINTENDO, NINTENDO 64, the NINTENDO Game Cube, and the NINTENDO Wii?
SONY playstation SONY playstation 2 SONY Playstation Portable SONY playstation 3

NINTENDO is the brand name, not the actual name of the console.
 
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