No Disc Read Error, No Disc Read...

[Romper]

ms eats the loss hardcore. baffles me to how they keep producing crap without coming to their senses and realizing, "wtf are we doing. were creating more problems by needing a product to be fixed this much, multiple times for the same person."

as for those that actually like xbox, and that are satisfied that they are given a 3 year warranty for a rrod, then more power to ya. problem now is, it seems that there are more random failures than just rrod where you arent covered by their craptasitc product warranty.
to me, its just bad business. i personally would never buy a product from a vendor that is known to stop working quite often. just think xbox users...in a couple years, they are going to drop you like a bad habit when it comes to the new system they are coming out with. gg MS.

only thing MS has done to bring my loyalty back is windows 7. which i saw today, and im quite impressed with. but why does it take them so many tries to come up with a working system?

Except Sony has reoccurring problems too in software because Sony has 3 or 5 different versions of their system out. People with backward compatible systems are basically S.o.L if there are any problems with a game connecting to the internet. I've seen it numerous times where my brother's PS3 locks up trying to install updates.

Oh then lets not forget that his system stopped reading discs with in a year of buying the system. I'm sure others have had this problem, or problems with their system no matter the make.

Get off of Sony's schlong they are far from perfect.

I agree with what Makelith said about Nintendo they build solid systems, and minus one error most of the OTHER problems were the users rather than the system.

 

[masterorion]

See you were honestly going good and it seemed like just an opinion. Then you went tard and it turned into a soft MS attack. No one cares how you feel about the company on a personal level and what they have done for you other then SERVICE TO YOUR CONSOLE. That is the point to this thread.

We are talking about a warranty system that pays for the shipping of your faulty console to them, pays for the service done to your faulty console and then pays to ship the console back to you.

When MS stops releasing software for a their system it does not have any effect on their warranty service. Why must fantards like you exist. At least Cheebs has a serious argument, you Mastero are just here to bitch.

how am i here to bitch? i dont own an xbox. what could i possibly be complaining about. im doing nothing but stating what was mentioned about non rrod issues. it was said that non rrod issues were not covered under the warranty. and those same hardware issues were paid for out of pocket. it does seem that xbox has had more problems with cd drives not reading lately rather than having rrod issues.

but, for the OP, drive failures are common for any console, computer, etc.
drives are a high maint item. end of story. that kind of problem really isnt part of the warranty. unless of course, the drive fails in the first couple months of use.
at that point, it is my opinion that the vendor of said product, should do repair since its not outside of the hardwares life expectancy. however, it all depends on what the fine print in the warranty states. most companies take care of issues with a product if its within a certain amount of time from purchase.

for rompstomp, no where in my OP did i mention anything with sony. i wasnt intending to. you ASSUMED, that it was going to be a sony vs xbox. no. i was doing nothing than agreeing with tagrineth that MS eats alot when it comes to profit/loss.
for faulty systems, whether its sent to MS or if its brought back to the seller. in either sense, the loss ultimately goes back to MS. if a faulty product gets brought back to the retailer, the retailer gets credit for that from the vendor.
IE: ipods...the ones wal mart sells. if it is brought back for being broken, walmart claims it with apple and recieve credit. with ipod though, they dont actually take their product back. they consider them D and D items(destroy). for larger items such as tvs for example. if one gets brought back to the retailer, they send it in and get credit for it. but the vendor does an overhaul and resells it as a remanufactured item so that there isnt so much loss.

rompstomp, for your brothers issue with downloading updates, its normally an easy fix. its nothing wrong with the system actually. its just the profile. it needs to be deleted and rebuilt. takes 5 mins. this is usually the fix with any console or computer game that is having wierd issues that no one else is experiencing

 

[masterorion]

edited to merge with top post

 

[Morcheeba]

I love Cheebs but she lives in a fantasy world. A world where consumers are treated the way they feel they should be.

Nah.. I've worked in corps where I've dealt with company expenditures. As well as had conversations with friends that manage such entertainment stores. Yeah I know how it works. If those stores in the states can't expense returns from the manufacturer they're doing something wrong or lack business sense.

Working on both sides and almost every company being manufacturers I just know better lol.

I AM an idealist.. and yes consumers should have rights to a degree.. but they don't. Even with the laws that are in effect to safeguard consumers.. they're useless.

 

[Tagrineth]

I'd say they work fine since Microsoft can't just arbitrarily nix your warranty. They WILL honour it unless you've tampered with your machine somehow, which is ALWAYS going to void your warranty.

 

[Morcheeba]

Microsoft does eat the loss. Or do you think their repair/replacement process is free to them? And the shipping companies give them free shipping out of the goodness of their hearts too?

The consumer eats the loss only if the repairs are for something other than RROD (which is not nearly as common and NOT caused by a manufacturing defect) and only after they've owned the product for a year (which is completely normal for just about any consumer electronics).

For RROD - the manufacturing defect - MS covers you for three fucking years.

What more do you want?!

I had issues that were not RROD 2 days after receiving a replacement console for the third time. The console was manufactured in Nov '08. I got the console in January '09. It was refurbished meaning already had factory defects that were "repaired" yet shipped out after repairs to me... and 2 days later more issues. (BTW) This meaning they WOULDN'T honor ANY warranty because it wasn't RROD, but THEIR fuck up for sending me a replacement piece of shit that should have never left the repair center. What now.

They wouldn't have to concern themselves with as much labour costs if they hired competent techs.

Every manufacturer that I've worked for has covered ALL product lines with manufacturer warranties, I dealt with claims.. you know what the warranties covered? Return shipments for faulty products and a brand new replacement. These are products that are a hell of a lot more expensive than any Microsoft product. Yet, these manufacturers aren't NEARLY as successful a corporation yet seem to maintain and stay afloat while still pulling in more revenue than their overhead.

So I don't feel sorry, nor do I feel Microsoft support their customers.

EDIT:

I'll always feel this way about shotty corps. Sorry been in business too long to be blinded by bullshit.

I love my xbox. I hate the company that makes it.

 

[Tagrineth]

I had issues that were not RROD 2 days after receiving a replacement console for the third time. The console was manufactured in Nov '08. I got the console in January '09. It was refurbished meaning already had factory defects that were "repaired" yet shipped out after repairs to me... and 2 days later more issues. (BTW) This meaning they WOULDN'T honor ANY warranty because it wasn't RROD, but THEIR fuck up for sending me a replacement piece of shit that should have never left the repair center. What now.

If you got it back from a repair and 2 days later it had more issues, you should've pestered them more. Any repair is followed by a few months' "warranty extension".

It might not have showed up in their system yet for whatever reason but if you'd given them the support ID# from the repair they'd just completed they should've been able to confirm that you'd just had it repaired and thus covered under a fresh, short but extant warranty.

My 360 is more than two years old and after I got it back from RROD repair it lit up as being in a full warranty on xbox.com.

 

[masterorion]

i hear of so many people having the same problem. getting rrod, sending it in suppposedly fixed, and still having the same issue when they get it back. my question is, what is the underlying cause of this? really, what is the problem with it to begin with, and why does it happen/what causes it to do the same when you get it back? im sure the main cause is heat. but heat dmg to what?

for what tagrineth said. you should totally bitch to them. if i brought anything into a shop, same problem occurs soon after, i would totally raise a stink. if you let the walk on you, they will

 

[Tagrineth]

The problem is with the heatsink clamps. They aren't secured tightly enough which gives the PCB room to warp over time.

 

[masterorion]

why does it continue to happen though after being fixed? if they, or anyone knows the problem, why do they fail to fix it right the first time? do they not check for warping?

 

[Morcheeba]

If you got it back from a repair and 2 days later it had more issues, you should've pestered them more. Any repair is followed by a few months' "warranty extension".

It might not have showed up in their system yet for whatever reason but if you'd given them the support ID# from the repair they'd just completed they should've been able to confirm that you'd just had it repaired and thus covered under a fresh, short but extant warranty.

My 360 is more than two years old and after I got it back from RROD repair it lit up as being in a full warranty on xbox.com.

Thanks I know how to bitch effectively. Their solution to this repetitive fuck up..., "Oh I'm so sorry about the inconvenience, I'll be sure to have it repaired asap to avoid you waiting longer."

Unacceptable.

 

[Tagrineth]

why does it continue to happen though after being fixed? if they, or anyone knows the problem, why do they fail to fix it right the first time? do they not check for warping?

The only thing they can really do is swap parts around. the warping is not a guaranteed thing.

Thanks I know how to bitch effectively. Their solution to this repetitive fuck up..., "Oh I'm so sorry about the inconvenience, I'll be sure to have it repaired asap to avoid you waiting longer."

Unacceptable.

Well what do you want them to do in that case? I mean that in a serious sense. What do you want them to do? They are NOT going to send you a new one before receiving the old one, so what the fuck difference does it make if they "repair" versus "replace"? You do realise that generally speaking "repair" means they completely replace various parts anyway right? So it's more or less a new Xbox with the old serial number.

 

[Morcheeba]

The only thing they can really do is swap parts around. the warping is not a guaranteed thing.



Well what do you want them to do in that case? I mean that in a serious sense. What do you want them to do? They are NOT going to send you a new one before receiving the old one, so what the fuck difference does it make if they "repair" versus "replace"? You do realize that generally speaking "repair" means they completely replace various parts anyway right? So it's more or less a new Xbox with the old serial number.

Not really.

Quite like the diagnostics on a vehicle. They try to determine exactly what the problem is and replace that one part.. maybe. They may try to repair that one part instead and save on more costs. That's probably a safer bet. I'm fairly certain they don't give the machine a once over to find any additional issues. That would mean more cost as well.

IF... and this is a stretch, if they DO give each returned console a thorough inspection when sent for repairs, they should consider cleaning house and setting up shop at job fairs for more tech savvy college graduates.

 

[Makelith]

Why wouldn't they do a full inspection? Having to have the same console returned multiple times would cost way more money to them over time, than the time it would take to do an inspection.

 

[masterorion]

Why wouldn't they do a full inspection? Having to have the same console returned multiple times would cost way more money to them over time, than the time it would take to do an inspection.

with cars, if its in the shop for the same thing three times, its covered under the lemon law. perhaps they should do that with electronics too. actually, i wanna say that i heard nintendo does that?

 

[Makelith]

Closest thing i could find with a quick google search, has to do with MS, though.

http://www.computerlemonlaw.com/microsoft-red-ring-of-death.html

 

[Morcheeba]

Why wouldn't they do a full inspection? Having to have the same console returned multiple times would cost way more money to them over time, than the time it would take to do an inspection.

It's just the way the business is handled. They would not provide full inspections. The only exception would be if when the consumer called in the problem and was not descriptive enough or the "script reader" couldn't make a diagnostic of the issue based on trouble shooting through their manuals. Even still, the techs would go right for the usual suspects. If they found a small defect in said suspected parts... they'd replace and ship back out.

 

[Makelith]

Let's see if we can keep things civil after a day of rest.

 

[masterorion]

as a response to an earlier post about manufacturers dont make parts to fail. well, that is incorrect. many companies do. auto companies dont produce a HUGE profit on the sale of a vehicle. all their profits are from either, the upsell. or the replacement of parts. now, they dont necessarily set parts to fail at a certain time or certain usage, but they do cut the lifespan that the parts would be actually working.
alternators for example. on older vehicles, alternators would be replaced once or twice in the span of that vehicles entirety. and im talking a span of 20+ years. in todays vehicles. you are likely to replace 10 alternators in that same span of time.

ms couldnt possibly make enough money from the sales of the xbox, alone. all the money is derived from addons. however, once the 3 yr warranty is up, guess what they start making huge amounts of money on? and, its either pay for the repair, or buy a new xbox that was produced after the problem was rampant.
also, whoever mentioned that it wasnt common practice for people to own multiple xboxs because their first one bit the dust..well, you might want to rethink that. my boss has 3 of them for the very reason this thread is to the point that it is. and thats not to mention everyone else i know. their thinking on it is, "well, ill have one to use while im waiting on my first one to be repaired".
so, with that said, it is a more common practice than what is thought of.

 

[Morcheeba]

as a response to an earlier post about manufacturers dont make parts to fail. well, that is incorrect. many companies do. auto companies dont produce a HUGE profit on the sale of a vehicle. all their profits are from either, the upsell. or the replacement of parts. now, they dont necessarily set parts to fail at a certain time or certain usage, but they do cut the lifespan that the parts would be actually working.
alternators for example. on older vehicles, alternators would be replaced once or twice in the span of that vehicles entirety. and im talking a span of 20+ years. in todays vehicles. you are likely to replace 10 alternators in that same span of time.

ms couldnt possibly make enough money from the sales of the xbox, alone. all the money is derived from addons. however, once the 3 yr warranty is up, guess what they start making huge amounts of money on? and, its either pay for the repair, or buy a new xbox that was produced after the problem was rampant.
also, whoever mentioned that it wasnt common practice for people to own multiple xboxs because their first one bit the dust..well, you might want to rethink that. my boss has 3 of them for the very reason this thread is to the point that it is. and thats not to mention everyone else i know. their thinking on it is, "well, ill have one to use while im waiting on my first one to be repaired".
so, with that said, it is a more common practice than what is thought of.

This, exactly.

Business is business. We're not fools, not ALL of us. Many are well aware of how business is run.