No Disc Read Error, No Disc Read...

This, exactly.

Business is business. We're not fools, not ALL of us. Many are well aware of how business is run.

So stop acting like MS is a business devil and these are not common practices in the business world. Fuck get over it, its the world we live in.
 
as a response to an earlier post about manufacturers dont make parts to fail. well, that is incorrect. many companies do. auto companies dont produce a HUGE profit on the sale of a vehicle. all their profits are from either, the upsell. or the replacement of parts. now, they dont necessarily set parts to fail at a certain time or certain usage, but they do cut the lifespan that the parts would be actually working.
alternators for example. on older vehicles, alternators would be replaced once or twice in the span of that vehicles entirety. and im talking a span of 20+ years. in todays vehicles. you are likely to replace 10 alternators in that same span of time.

ms couldnt possibly make enough money from the sales of the xbox, alone. all the money is derived from addons. however, once the 3 yr warranty is up, guess what they start making huge amounts of money on? and, its either pay for the repair, or buy a new xbox that was produced after the problem was rampant.
also, whoever mentioned that it wasnt common practice for people to own multiple xboxs because their first one bit the dust..well, you might want to rethink that. my boss has 3 of them for the very reason this thread is to the point that it is. and thats not to mention everyone else i know. their thinking on it is, "well, ill have one to use while im waiting on my first one to be repaired".
so, with that said, it is a more common practice than what is thought of.

THANK YOU

Most of what you said is what i was saying, and the rest of what you said there is true. it's ashamed how all of my posts got deleted here for mentioning it while flamed (outside the flameboard) for saying so.

Some notes.

- Retailers report the X360 to have around 30% failure rate. Other sources have numbers that go as high as 68% failure rate. None the less one third is insanely high.

- Microsoft says they lost around 1 billion in repair costs, however....

- Microsoft reported they made OVER 1 billion in XBL and DLC not including game sales. Excellent.

On a side note, I'd like to add for those who never heard me mention it a hundred times already. I do like Microsoft. I like Windows, and i even think xbox is very nice. My opinion on how Microsoft does things with consumers has nothing to do with my favoritism for another console, as suggested earlier.

It's very likely Microsoft is already breaking even or even profiting from selling brand new X360 units by now, as it is with everything else, it becomes cheaper to make. Hell Sony is expected to break even already this year, and the PS3 is defiantly more expensive to produce.

Over all Microsoft Xbox business scheme is very ingenious. I just think it's very wrong for the large percent of people who paved the way for it's success to face RROD and a time out, that of which resulted in the consumer independently doing some marketing for Microsoft without pay, in the cases they do buy 2 or 3 or 4 i even heard of 6 xbox consoles that end up back into circulation pretty quickly.
 
So stop acting like MS is a business devil and these are not common practices in the business world. Fuck get over it, its the world we live in.

Hey Osyris Microsoft is a business devil. They took the computer world with such force, a shit load of software developers sued them cause they all were forced to write software for windows. Bill screwed over Apple's Steve Jobs more than once. Halo was suppose to be a Mac exclusive.

See.
 
Hey Osyris Microsoft is a business devil. They took the computer world with such force, a shit load of software developers sued them cause they all were forced to write software for windows. Bill screwed over Apple's Steve Jobs more than once. Halo was suppose to be a Mac exclusive.

See.

See you make a post about not being a MS hater then you want to call them a business devil... lol... I know you are no hater honestly though some may not.

They can screw endless numbers of people, they can run any business plan they want... None of it is shady in the world we live in and none of this is out of the norm. MS are easily considered a business genius. You consider a genius a devil, but whatever.

They dumped 20Billion dollars into an industry completely in control by 2 figures, one more then the other... And in a short time made themselves more then just relevent. They are sort of allready an envy. Its so funny how success brings hatred. Bitter humans we are i guess.
 
So stop acting like MS is a business devil and these are not common practices in the business world. Fuck get over it, its the world we live in.

What Masterorion pointed out is the true nasty that is practical business. What Microsoft does to top that off is additionally rape their consumers with their half-assed customer support and warranties.

I pointed out what a typical warranty is a manufacturer will provide. They still may practice many of the same practical business strategies but at least they'll then try and make it look like they care by supporting their product failures. The reason behind that is good customer service will more times than not produce repeat customers. The REALLY shitty thing about this game Microsoft likes to play is there just isn't enough competition. They know it.

It's like a sexy guy who knows he is sexy... just fucking spoils it by opening his mouth and letting the arrogance spew.
 
See you make a post about not being a MS hater then you want to call them a business devil... lol... I know you are no hater honestly though some may not.

They can screw endless numbers of people, they can run any business plan they want... None of it is shady in the world we live in and none of this is out of the norm. MS are easily considered a business genius. You consider a genius a devil, but whatever.

They dumped 20Billion dollars into an industry completely in control by 2 figures, one more then the other... And in a short time made themselves more then just relevent. They are sort of allready an envy. Its so funny how success brings hatred. Bitter humans we are i guess.

True that.

Yeah Business is at it's best when it's stone cold. Microsoft never got where they were at for being a technological wonder alone.

Despite the fact Microsoft is a betch and is viewed as one in the business world, I like using their OS and I look forward to whats coming after Vista. I don't like Vista, but love all of it's predecessors including the crusty Windows M.E. (It was like a lagy toy for me.)

We're surrounded by industrial design, which is business orientated. Everything you own, to every brick on your home has been on a truck at one point. Under these conditions I wouldn't let it drag me down as to how the business world works, and as much as we like what Microsoft puts out, they are merciless when it comes to making money.
 
True that.

Yeah Business is at it's best when it's stone cold. Microsoft never got where they were at for being a technological wonder alone.

Despite the fact Microsoft is a betch and is viewed as one in the business world, I like using their OS and I look forward to whats coming after Vista. I don't like Vista, but love all of it's predecessors including the crusty Windows M.E. (It was like a lagy toy for me.)

We're surrounded by industrial design, which is business orientated. Everything you own, to every brick on your home has been on a truck at one point. Under these conditions I wouldn't let it drag me down as to how the business world works, and as much as we like what Microsoft puts out, they are merciless when it comes to making money.

And that is all it comes down to Ant.

Cheebs just stop. Someone please just close the freaking thread for good. All that happens is one argument cools down and then someone bitches about the same thing they bitched about on page 2.

We can agree to disagree on everything and just call it a day.

I mean shit we are back to you complaining about there service being shitty. When a 3 year free warranty is probably THE BEST warranty i have ever received on any electronic device i have EVER purchased.

Now that thats out the way... You will go back to complaining about how MS is mean and have a bad mouth or some other baby shit.

Please end this thread.
 
by no means do i hate MS. i havent mentioned it, but i <3 MS. if i didnt, i would emulate ffxi on a mac machine. the only problem i have with them is the mistakes that they release to consumers to make a quick buck without really being ready to release them. IE: windows ME, vista, and xbox.
whether they practice releasing stuff, providing a warranty, and making millions off of problems down the road, is up to debate..thats not either here nor there. that practice is not illegal by any means. however, is it ethical? my opinion is that it is not ethical. this is why i will always wait a couple years before i actually purchase a MS product. this way, i can actually see how it performs and what kind of problems(if any) its going to have.

as for their warranty service, it sounds like they are top notch from what i hear? but what people are not coming to terms with yet, is that once they are no longer covered by said warranty, then what is going to happen? expenses to maintain your system could be astronomical. and for consumers, that just isnt fair to u guys
 
by no means do i hate MS. i havent mentioned it, but i <3 MS. if i didnt, i would emulate ffxi on a mac machine. the only problem i have with them is the mistakes that they release to consumers to make a quick buck without really being ready to release them. IE: windows ME, vista, and xbox.
whether they practice releasing stuff, providing a warranty, and making millions off of problems down the road, is up to debate..thats not either here nor there. that practice is not illegal by any means. however, is it ethical? my opinion is that it is not ethical. this is why i will always wait a couple years before i actually purchase a MS product. this way, i can actually see how it performs and what kind of problems(if any) its going to have.

as for their warranty service, it sounds like they are top notch from what i hear? but what people are not coming to terms with yet, is that once they are no longer covered by said warranty, then what is going to happen? expenses to maintain your system could be astronomical. and for consumers, that just isnt fair to u guys

To touch your last paragraph... My PS3 is a 60gig from release. My warranty is obviously over and was at the time of my PS3 bricking. I had to pay $150 and the shipping to get it fixed. And by the way it bricked due to a patch released by Sony..

I dont bring it up for a MS vs Sony battle precisely.. I bring it up because MS charges the same amount as Sony to repair your system when out of warranty. So there is no astronomical charge to maintain your MS product compared to its competition.

The fact they give a 3 year warranty for something they screwed up is great service.

The fact they offer a standard 1 year warranty with the same fine print as their competition and they charge the same to repair is quality service.
 
To touch your last paragraph... My PS3 is a 60gig from release. My warranty is obviously over and was at the time of my PS3 bricking. I had to pay $150 and the shipping to get it fixed. And by the way it bricked due to a patch released by Sony..

I dont bring it up for a MS vs Sony battle precisely.. I bring it up because MS charges the same amount as Sony to repair your system when out of warranty. So there is no astronomical charge to maintain your MS product compared to its competition.

The fact they give a 3 year warranty for something they screwed up is great service.

The fact they offer a standard 1 year warranty with the same fine print as their competition and they charge the same to repair is quality service.

but your failing to see the point. so, ill explain part by part...we will say you bought an xbox from release date.. after 5 months of use, you have rrod. no big deal. you have the 3 year warranty. now in those three years, you send it in 15 times. ok no big deal. your covered for free 15 times in stead of paying 15x150 which would equal out to be 2,250.00.
but again, since you have a warranty. no cost to you. we can both agree on that, correct? so, using statistics, in this situation, your xbox would have bricked 5 times a year? right? yes.
ok, now here is the point that you didnt comprehend/listen to. year 4 comes around. your system breaks down an average of 5 times(from example above). guess what. your now spending 750 bucks for that one year. in the end. your paying more for that xbox than you would for a ps3.
do you see what im getting at. and that is only over the course of one year after warranty expiring. its not going to magically fix itself. the only way it will fix itself is if MS replaces the warped board. which, its already been proven, they wont.(cited: dozens of people that have sent their system in multiple times for same prob)

now on the other hand. you have ps3 users that have an issue, heck..i dont know. i only know one person that has a prob and that is with a bad HD. which, regardless of system, isnt uncommon. that kind of problem is fixable by yourself. but, lets say that the problem he had was...i dunno...anything. he has had that same PS since release. most xbox users have sent in their xbox at least 2 times. (im using this figure from people i know that have xbox, so its somewhat of an accurate number). considering that, what does that tell you. you cant even use the law of averages on the ps3, because problems arent common enough. but in this case, xbox has a 2 to 1 ratio of problems over ps3. i would gladly pay 150 bucks to fix a problem that may come up 1 time in 2-3 years rather than eventually, pay 150bucks 2 times in 1 year.

now, hopefully and most assuredly, the next gen xbox is better quality and not put on the market in haste to be out for xmas rush. i have 90% faith that it will be a great system. so, by no means am i knocking MS.

no one has made this thread a ps3 vs xbox. so, dont think this particular post is one of those. but, those are the stats of what is soon to come to those people that dont get the next gen xbox. if what i see is correct, warranties will be expiring soon?
 
oh and also...when patches are done, they can be undone. if the patch screwed the bios info, there is always to undo stuff like that. now, if a patch screwed up something on the HD, well...its not bricked. thats probably the easiest fix there is. the only way a system is going to be bricked is if its mechanically not working. im sure there is a way to flash the bios. just as there is for any other system.

but, im guessing that when it stopped working, first thing that came to your mind is "its not working, gotta send it in"?
if i wasnt tech savy, that would be my first thought.
or, when you call sony tech support, they tell you to send it in, you did. most people will do whatever is told to them at the drop of a hat. thats how they are going to make money. just as MS, chevrolet, ford, macintosh, etc.
 
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masterorion said:
ok, now here is the point that you didnt comprehend/listen to. year 4 comes around. your system breaks down an average of 5 times(from example above). guess what. your now spending 750 bucks for that one year. in the end. your paying more for that xbox than you would for a ps3.
do you see what im getting at. and that is only over the course of one year after warranty expiring. its not going to magically fix itself. the only way it will fix itself is if MS replaces the warped board. which, its already been proven, they wont.(cited: dozens of people that have sent their system in multiple times for same prob)

okay but there is one huge fallacy in this post - after you get a repair you're given a 3 month temp warranty, so if it fails five times in a year, you'll pay for one of those five.

and yes, they will replace the warped board, otherwise people like me wouldn't have working 360s right now. i'm guessing they probably try to replace parts with refurbished parts first before breaking out entirely new parts.

and the people that have to send their 360 in that many times? fringe cases. i know someone who's owned four PS3s. but i guess that's normal right?
 
but your failing to see the point. so, ill explain part by part...we will say you bought an xbox from release date.. after 5 months of use, you have rrod. no big deal. you have the 3 year warranty. now in those three years, you send it in 15 times. ok no big deal. your covered for free 15 times in stead of paying 15x150 which would equal out to be 2,250.00.
but again, since you have a warranty. no cost to you. we can both agree on that, correct? so, using statistics, in this situation, your xbox would have bricked 5 times a year? right? yes.
ok, now here is the point that you didnt comprehend/listen to. year 4 comes around. your system breaks down an average of 5 times(from example above). guess what. your now spending 750 bucks for that one year. in the end. your paying more for that xbox than you would for a ps3.
do you see what im getting at. and that is only over the course of one year after warranty expiring. its not going to magically fix itself. the only way it will fix itself is if MS replaces the warped board. which, its already been proven, they wont.(cited: dozens of people that have sent their system in multiple times for same prob)

now on the other hand. you have ps3 users that have an issue, heck..i dont know. i only know one person that has a prob and that is with a bad HD. which, regardless of system, isnt uncommon. that kind of problem is fixable by yourself. but, lets say that the problem he had was...i dunno...anything. he has had that same PS since release. most xbox users have sent in their xbox at least 2 times. (im using this figure from people i know that have xbox, so its somewhat of an accurate number). considering that, what does that tell you. you cant even use the law of averages on the ps3, because problems arent common enough. but in this case, xbox has a 2 to 1 ratio of problems over ps3. i would gladly pay 150 bucks to fix a problem that may come up 1 time in 2-3 years rather than eventually, pay 150bucks 2 times in 1 year.

now, hopefully and most assuredly, the next gen xbox is better quality and not put on the market in haste to be out for xmas rush. i have 90% faith that it will be a great system. so, by no means am i knocking MS.

no one has made this thread a ps3 vs xbox. so, dont think this particular post is one of those. but, those are the stats of what is soon to come to those people that dont get the next gen xbox. if what i see is correct, warranties will be expiring soon?

Engadget reports the first gen PS3's has a 0.2% fail rate and the later models are even better. Before just now I never even knew the PS3 even had a YLOD. I think it's very ironic that Osy of all people had to deal with one off warranty.
 
(1)okay but there is one huge fallacy in this post - after you get a repair you're given a 3 month temp warranty, so if it fails five times in a year, you'll pay for one of those five.

(2)and yes, they will replace the warped board, otherwise people like me wouldn't have working 360s right now. i'm guessing they probably try to replace parts with refurbished parts first before breaking out entirely new parts.

(3)and the people that have to send their 360 in that many times? fringe cases. i know someone who's owned four PS3s. but i guess that's normal right?

i have your three paragraphs numbered for easy referral.

for #1
paying for that 1, your still paying more than another gamer would. people that have systems that dont fail so much will only have a problem in, perhaps a 2 year time...if that.

#2
if they replaced the boards, there wouldnt be people with a problem at all. they would have to be using refurbs. i know people that have theirs sent in for the same problems. in fact, it practically rrod right out of the box. hence the reason why he bought another one in the meantime while he sent his back...again. this kind of mechanical problem is just unacceptable.

#3
its funny that you mention this. it seems that everyone has had theiir xbox sent in at least 2 times. if you look above where it shows the path to the thread your in, when it says "Microsoft Gaming Bill Gates 4tw! Bring your three red rings of doom and have a few drinks here.", then there is just something wrong. but i suppose, they just come up with wacky sayings that have nothing to do with anything?
if your buddy or whoever has had that many problems with a lower failing gaming machine, then he may want to see what it is that he is doing wrong. a friend of mine, and his 2 brothers, all got their ps3's at launch. they keep the systems on constantly whether they are in use or not. none of them have had an issue except for one that had a HD fail. a problem like that is not a system killer though. hell, i keep mine on all the time as well(unless im going out of town). no problems here either. and this isnt even mentioning the many other people that i know with ps3.
as with cars, sometimes you just get a lemon of a vehicle that does nothing but have problems.

and as a cite, i post this. and keep in mind, this is only one post. there used to be a thread that had everyone list their own rrod

http://www.qcdn.org/ffxi/showthread.php?t=66595

now, im sure we can all agree that anything mechanical fails? if we cant, then you probably shouldnt reading any of these posts. anyhow, if a gaming system, in this example, fails...we have to ask ourselves, what was it that caused it to fail. typically, its heavy use or old. now, if you ask yourself what causes an xbox to fail, whats your answer? i say its a flaw in the quality control/design. if its a loose heatsink, something like that should have been seen before it even left testing. normal companies recall items that fail this much.
we could go over rare cases of ps3 failing all day just to try to even up system failures. however, ps3 failures fall under the normal mechanical failures. as far as i can tell, they are just as reliable as any computer i have owned.
if you dont think so, look in the playstation section and compare it to the xbox section. for statistical use, the sample environment for use in this is as good as its gonna get if you went around the world asking people what systems they have had problems with. you will find a max of 3 or 4 posts with problematic ps3. in this section, there are 4 threads alone. and thats not even mentioning people that have posted within those threads saying the problems they have had.
 
Engadget reports the first gen PS3's has a 0.2% fail rate and the later models are even better. Before just now I never even knew the PS3 even had a YLOD. I think it's very ironic that Osy of all people had to deal with one off warranty.

It was earlier last year. There was a firmware update 2.4 that had a large chance to brick your system. This was a huge issue for Sony and they pulled the firmware update off fast.

Regardless i updated my system and i was stuck in the never ending black screen even after reboots. They charged $150 to repair. This was no issue you could just solve at home...

MasterO every post you make is full of failed logic. I dont have time to make huuge counter paragraph to pick it apart as i am playing my working 360.
 
Holy Moses !

senseinobaka said:
Forge News: 360 to Break Ford’s Product Failure Record
ShareThis
Posted by: senseinobaka
15th Apr 2009, Microsoft, 6,567 views

“Our dedication and team effort finally pays off!”

April 15, 2009

REDMOND, WA – Excitement is in the air at Microsoft as the technology giant’s famed Xbox 360 gaming console approaches another milestone. By 11:59PM today, the company predicts to achieve its billionth product failure, shattering Ford Motor Company’s long standing record, and ensuring a spot in annals of history.

Shane Kim, Microsoft Game Studios Vice President, rejoices; “Our dedication and team effort finally pays off!” His audience; a large, vital group of customer service agents, are gathered closely around the VP in the dreary, dark, dank Flextronics call center that handles all of Xbox 360 customer complaints. Continuing his inspirational speech to the teary-eyed bunch, he laments that “No one believed our young team could match Ford’s historical line up, but tonight we take home the trophy and relish in the fact that our failure is unmatched. We are champions!”

Michael Delman, Microsoft’s Vice President of Global Marketing, was also in attendance and took a couple minutes to discuss this momentous occasion with Forge News. He commented that “It is truly amazing that the Xbox 360 has been able to achieve this in less than four years.” The Xbox 360 was released in the fall of 2005 and immediately began its race to this point with a product failure rate many experts (Forge News included) predicted to be around 3300%. Delman continued his praises by noting “...they [Ford Motor Company] have had a legacy line up of products. In the 70’s they had Pinto, who was just an explosive player that significantly padded their stats. But we caught up.” The VP continued, “Then the 90’s began the era of ‘Flippy’ Explorer and Ford was sent into the stratosphere. But now we’re higher.”


Now all we need to do is endorse cheap 'Lite' piss water.

It is not exactly understood how Microsoft achieved one billion product failures with only an estimated 30 million units sold to consumers. A spokesperson for the Corporate Competition Committee has vowed to look into the perceived discrepancy. The prevailing theory is that Ford Motor Company just did not have an answer to Microsoft’s two-pronged attack. “Microsoft played it smart by first unleashing the innovative "Red Ring of Death" play and then phasing in the more balanced and sinister E74 strategy. There really weren't many options for Ford at that point--they were pinned down and no amount of bailout money could help them [Ford Motor Company] out of the deficit” opined the CCC spokesperson.

The CCC has confirmed to Forge News that Microsoft will not receive certification for this record until their investigation is complete. But this does not have Team Xbox 360 scared as they continue to answer the constant barrage of costumer complaint calls originating from young Halo-tots to the likes of esteemed dictator Cobra Commander. “I never imagined that this could happen. I mean…Ford had Pinto, which was known for exploding on contact…I wondered how we could match that...but when reports came in that the 360 was burning down houses, I knew that the championship was in reach,” commented one team member. However, looking to the future, he continued, “Now that we are a record setting organization, the onus is on us to continue playing as champions and we promise to keep delivering the failure”



*Forge News is a satire feature that the Vgchartz editorial team is happy to present. These pieces will be strictly written as good humor, sarcasm, and satire of everything video game related. They do not represent our views and opinions of anyone or any company that will be written about. It is our sincere desire that our readers will enjoy this new creative feature for what it is and not read any deeper meaning of bias into it.

They really do praise their own failure rate. It's about the money. Microsoft literally applauds their failure record it as they present it to customer service agencies.

The link:http://news.vgchartz.com/news.php?id=3411
 
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MasterO every post you make is full of failed logic. I dont have time to make huuge counter paragraph to pick it apart as i am playing my working 360.

you will have time eventually. im sure it will be when your waiting for a repaired console to come back in the mail. it baffles me how people are so accepting of having to repair a system so much and not even care?! whatever though. to each their own. it will save me the 10 seconds of ignoring the post you type out while you try to look out the blindfold that you have placed over your own eyes.

any electronic item can be put in comparison to a car and i will abuse that comparison. auto manufacturers place warranties on their vehicles. if it breaks down and is covered by warranty, they fix it. they also cover their service that they put on that vehicle if that part breaks again relatively soon after the repair. but you know what? at some point, that warranty ends, point blank. causing that owner to have to pay out of pocket. xbox is going to be the same as any other item that is covered by warranty. it will end, you will pay, and they will make money from you.

i dont see what is so hard to understand about that? anyone with common sense and real world experience would have seen that already. so, please. go ahead, pick apart my posts. i welcome the debate. in the meantime, ill go play my ps3 that has not broken yet. and probably wont any time soon

oh, and also...

"Regardless i updated my system and i was stuck in the never ending black screen even after reboots. They charged $150 to repair. This was no issue you could just solve at home..."
i guess sony has magic fingers that no one else has? reboots wont fix a bios issue. you have to flash it. so, yes. you can solve that stuff at home. if its not the bios, then its the HD. easy fixes if you apply troubleshooting. but regardless, at least sony pulled the update. its shameful that MS doesnt recall the older model xboxs. but to you, everyones logic fails except your own. since apparently, you know more than anyone could possibly fathom?
 
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Engadget reports the first gen PS3's has a 0.2% fail rate and the later models are even better. Before just now I never even knew the PS3 even had a YLOD. I think it's very ironic that Osy of all people had to deal with one off warranty.

I find this incredibly hard to believe. At my store alone, we have had at least 10 completely broken PS3s all brought in to us, in the last few months alone. We always have a pretty steady flow of broken systems, with xbox being by far the largest, but you are reading some very bad reports if it says there is a .2% chance or less of a PS3 failing.
 
here are failure rates for the three major systems. which i may add, is fairly recent.

http://www.product-reviews.net/2008/02/14/failure-rates-xbox-360-16-nintendo-wii-3-sony-ps3-3/

if you read the posts of the people that own xbox's, it goes back to my point earlier in the topic that people have multiple problems within 1 year.

IE:"I am currently going on my 5th XBOX 360 console"
"Currently on my 3rd 360 machine in 13 months due to the red ring, the delay in getting the replacement is the real pain. "
 
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They really do praise their own failure rate. It's about the money. Microsoft literally applauds their failure record it as they present it to customer service agencies.

The link:http://news.vgchartz.com/news.php?id=3411The

You missed somethin' that likes to hide in tiny print at the bottoms of things. Blown up, it reads:

*Forge News is a satire feature that the Vgchartz editorial team is happy to present. These pieces will be strictly written as good humor, sarcasm, and satire of everything video game related. They do not represent our views and opinions of anyone or any company that will be written about. It is our sincere desire that our readers will enjoy this new creative feature for what it is and not read any deeper meaning of bias into it.
 
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