No Peddlin', Politickin', or Preachin'

[Zaltana]

i agree with alot that has been staid here. i've lived in many area's and traveled to more then half the states in the country. i've grown up with an "outside looking in" perspective because i was born in the middle of my family's baby boom times. so im used to seeing things from multiple points of views. and because of that i can usually tell when something being said is shady or not.

i grew up in a Christian house and even followed most of the practices for awhile. but as i got older things just didnt start adding up from what i saw. it eventually let to me becoming agnostic, but at the same time i dont harp on anyone that still follows their religion. the zealots however do get under my skin. i cant trust the opinion or statement of a person that blindly follows a cause. they are just letting their beliefs and their leaders take advantage of them.

 

[Trippyhippy]

yeah, I have seen christians, swarm atheists before, but I havent witnissed it nearly as much as the latter, and I live in christian country, lol. Well, at least I think so.

Anyway, sorry about that. Its never fun to have any sort of belief forced upon you, and I just wonder why people think that forcing others will get them to change their mind. If people are concerned or worried, theyll change, if they arent, they wont. No big deal, the way I see it.

When an atheist starts trying to convince a theist that there is no god, the main goal is not to convert. The main goal is to show them how annoying it is when someone is pushing their beliefs on you. At least in my experience.

 

[Dejavu]

na i try to convert... because if im wrong and i am going to hell... i want other people to be there with me.

 

[Morcheeba]

When an atheist starts trying to convince a theist that there is no god, the main goal is not to convert. The main goal is to show them how annoying it is when someone is pushing their beliefs on you. At least in my experience.

That's what I think as well.

 

[Tok]

and I live in christian country
\

and its for that reason that this country and/or world will always be forever stuck in the place it is now

cloning, stem cell research, abortion (read women's rights) true equality, free thinking will always be repressed by religion

 

[Valoran]

On a religious note to go way back to the firs tpost, I had the opportunity recently to attend a luncheon where the presiding bishop of the Episcopal church (USA) was speaking. Someone asked her whether mainline denominations should be trying to follow the mega-churches and building up more and more members and money. The question-asker wanted to know why people who work more towards what you may be calling "truth" (in this case, helping people engage serious questions in their lives, deal with pain and loss, determine social policy considerations, etc) don't have the same membership as the larger churches. The presiding bishop answered (partially) that we have to be careful to remember that religion happens in intimate spaces and small groups.

I think that's a worthwhile suggestion. We may not have figured out a "universal" way to institutionalize truth in either religion or politics, but that doesn't mean that either are without it.

Zaltana wrote above about moving away from her formal religious beliefs because they didn't add up. There are two things you can do when things don't add up, of course. One is you can check the numbers. The other is you can abandon math. They're both legitimate courses of action. (This isn't to say that religion is as empirical as math; some of the "numbers" do have to be things like whether there are universal principles of truth, etc). I've always found that I learn more by checking the numbers, and often I realize that the system still does have truth in it. It's far more likely to me that human beings aren't able to comprehend metaphysical truths than it is that truths don't exist.

I guess I'd ultimately encourage you not to give up. And if you happen to be living in the US of A, I suspect that you'll be seeing a dramatically different and more dynamic government a year from now.

 

[Valoran]

and its for that reason that this country and/or world will always be forever stuck in the place it is now

cloning, stem cell research, abortion (read women's rights) true equality, free thinking will always be repressed by religion

PS: I'm a Christian who follows Christian principles to conclude that stem cell research, abortion, true equality and free thinking are things to be upheld. I think you're talking about the religious right, or possibly even just the political right, which, after all, also has atheists and agnostic members who are pro-life, anti-stem cell research, racist, sexist, or who feel that tradition and authority should trump logical argument.

As for being stuck . . . well, see above and wait a year. I've got some "audacious hope" about it.