Nrsss and NRHQ LS

Myrrh said:
If someone is dumb enough to buy the bot how are we supposed to know if they're not lying when they say they've only used it once? They PAID for it. It cost a person money. If I bought something, I sure as hell wouldn't use it only once.
Click to expand...

$10 or $20 or whatever the hell it costs is not a lot of money to some people. I've thrown away a lot more than that on some very stupid stuff myself. And While Ghost very well may still be using the bot (he told me that he wasn't, as he was only playing around with it to see how it worked, and I for one, believe him), I still stand by the fact that it doesn't have shit to do with the point of this thread. I've never used a bot, Venus hasn't, to my knowledge Kai and Ginny haven't, and all four of us are telling you the same thing: That the NRHQ LS and it's leader are jokes, and to avoid the shell if you value your time and your sanity. Even if your stupid, over-zealous, narrow-minded outlook can't get you to see past the "botting incident" for Ghost, it should not invalidate the opinions of the rest of us that posted in this thread.

Now... given that it's quite apparent that Nrsss and the others siding with him aren't going to have the balls to post in this thread (huge surprise), I'd say we are done here, and would request a lock (or would ask that Ghost request one, as he's the OP). That way, all you holier-than-thou fucktards can take your anti-bot preaching to another thread.
 
Suriou said:
I don't mean to add fuel to the fire, especially to a topic that's been resolved already. But! Even if Ghost payed to try a bot, and even though doing so breaks the rules of the T&C. It's none of my concern really.
It's like being a Hall monitor in a school full of immature kids. Even though you catch them doing inappropriate things, there's going to be even more people doing it behind your back. I still support Ghost's side of the story, even if he tried using a bot. The LS is the one at fault here, and going with the next best reason to kick someone sounds like they're trying to cover up their mistake. "SS or it didn't happen" Shizam! hard proof baby.
Things happen, if it doesn't concern or affect you, just be the better person. Let it go.
Click to expand...

You're not taking into account Tristam's point. Even if he only tried it, the money is in the hands of the developer now, and he'll be motivated to keep making more to make more money. I think your school example would have been best if the correlation was to a drug dealer :/
 
ShomeGhuye said:
You're not taking into account Tristam's point. Even if he only tried it, the money is in the hands of the developer now, and he'll be motivated to keep making more to make more money. I think your school example would have been best if the correlation was to a drug dealer :/
Click to expand...

I see what your saying about the example and yeah it would sound better in a drug dealer scenerio.I do think Tristam's point is a valid one, but even more-so if ghost was reported as a bot user, it wouldn't do any justice in finding the bot developer. Even though he paid currency for the bot, the damage is already done. The best thing to do is learn from it and don't do it again, and hope the developer loses interest in making botting programs (even thought that's a slim chance, since he's making -some- money out of it).

But yeah I think this thread's usage has been used up. We got the point across that Nrsss' linkshell is shit, and uses invalid reasons to kick people. Thank you Ghost for your personal experience with them, and warning others about their stupidity.
 
Inunabe said:
I really don't like posting on the FB, even if I do take the time to read it, mostly just to see who to avoid in game. Aren't you just some kinda fucking saint or something. You've posted this fucking holier than though bullshit in posts before, specially when issue of bots have come up. I've let it by pass before just because, as was previously mentioned, often the issue of *insert name here* being a botter has completely negated their credibility.

I'm not going to say whether Ghost having used a bot is bad or good, as those terms are completely subjective. However, your little statement about having friends who had tried out bots once and you turned em in just pisses me the hell off.

Way to be citizen # fucking 1.

Please keep saving us from all the interweb evildoers.
Click to expand...

Shut up. You don't even know me, so don't act like you do. Know that old adage about "there's no honor among thieves"? If someone acted like a friend to me, then confessed to me that he just broke into a website with some hacked credentials, you had better goddamn well believe I'm going to turn that person in. This isn't some stupid Nazi gestapo-state analogy where I'm supposedly snitching on someone for spraying graffiti or pantsing someone.

Get off *your* high horse, and stop likening me to some retarded White Knight.

It's a simple concept, really; if you are a person who uses bots or hacks, even as a "I just wanna try this out" idea, why in the fuck would you tell someone whom you *know* hates them? It makes no logical sense, yet it happened with me and a couple of my buddies, *twice*. If they're moronic enough to

1) download and install and use a hack
2) tell me about it

then yes, they get what's coming to them, and I made no bones about telling them I did in fact turn them in, and then I called them stupid for using the bots, and even more stupid for telling me about it.


Christ, the moral compasses of some of you people must be spinning all the time due to the interference.
 
OMG you're STILL babbling on about botting and yet you still miss the reasons why Ghost had his pearl broken. You still seem to think that it was over botting (which it wasn't).

This doesn't mean that our "moral compasses" must be "spinning all the time due to interference."

It just means we can read.
 
Kaientai said:
OMG you're STILL babbling on about botting and yet you still miss the reasons why Ghost had his pearl broken. You still seem to think that it was over botting (which it wasn't).

This doesn't mean that our "moral compasses" must be "spinning all the time due to interference."

It just means we can read.
Click to expand...

Explain where I seem to think that's the case. I know why Ghost was kicked. The argument about botting *was* over until Inunabe decided he needed to get a word in.

Go about your business, nothing to see here folks, because clarifying my stance about a sidebar issue is clearly an OMGBABBLE issue.
 
Trash. Any linkshell hoping to maintain any type of reputation would have ditched you upon discovering this. If that's their justification for kicking you, then so be it, and I applaud them for it. They (the LS) don't really need to quantify it any other way at this point.
Click to expand...
That was what you said at the start. From that point on, all you thought about was he was kicked for botting. Your entire participation in this thread was about botting. You just keyed in on that word and stuck with it.

You are the one who made it an OMGBABBLE issue. No matter how many times myself, Divinius, Ginny and others who were part of that shell tried to explain, you just didn't care. WE know why he was booted. YOU just made assumptions.

As was stated already, if you want to debate botting, make another thread. This one has run its course and by all means get the last word in please.
 
Kaientai said:
That was what you said at the start. From that point on, all you thought about was he was kicked for botting. Your entire participation in this thread was about botting. You just keyed in on that word and stuck with it.

You are the one who made it an OMGBABBLE issue. No matter how many times myself, Divinius, Ginny and others who were part of that shell tried to explain, you just didn't care. WE know why he was booted. YOU just made assumptions.

As was stated already, if you want to debate botting, make another thread. This one has run its course and by all means get the last word in please.
Click to expand...

Oh snap, you quoted something I said over a week ago, despite the fact that I've made peace with the very people you're quoting -- Divinius, Ginny, and even Ghost himself. They all get my point, yet you're still bent on it for some reason.

The events here are mutually exclusive. He botted, and he was kicked, but he was not kicked because he botted. I. fucking. know. this.
 
Oh wow. This thread is still around O.o

I had fully expected it to be locked by this point, since the topic at hand was addressed and everyone agreed that shit was done in a poor manor. Or even that I sealed my own fate by telling him that after I got W. Legs I was going to leave. Either way, meh. This thread "can" be locked if an admin wants to, but seeing it just being thrown around about the botting issue now is waaaaaaay off topic, it should be. Or at least brought back to the actual topic.

Tristam Green said:
The events here are mutually exclusive. He botted, and he was kicked, but he was not kicked because he botted.
Click to expand...
The very point. No, I don't use it anymore, but believe what you want, its in the past. Yes, Tristam, I know that purchasing it was bad, whats worse though is that after that list was made public Wiz himself made the statement of he had more new people purchasing it within 24hours than he had in the past year. So the very essence that the list was exposed by a hacker trying to get back at him caused a surge in business, don't you just love the interwebs x.x. Bah!, I'm off topic now :(.

Anywho, bring it back to the actual topic, let this thread die out, or have an admin lock it. Any of those three options are worthwhile. If it can't be done with option 1 or 2, then 3 is the only reasonable one.
 
Trust me Ghost, I'd have locked it by now but I don't want to be accused of dodging the issues or "getting the last word in", since the only constant on the Internet is that it's vogue to diss moderation staff.
 
To the Midgardians kind of put-off about botting becoming the main issue here:

Tough shit, honestly. Our server has been burned quite a few times by transfer linkshells and their botting asses. We've gone from a mostly honest (or at least very quietly dishonest) endgame scene for HNM where the shells actually took to the rule of "Dont talk to people while we're camping and just leave everyone alone" to assholes coming in and hacking anything they can and doing their best to MPK the other shell and /shout matches going on like this is 2005 or something. Really pathetic shit. 90% of our server and the participants in this website are strongly against botting. I've seen very happy and popular people on our server become absolute rubbish overnight because they've been found to be a botter. Quetzalcoatl is a very tight-knit server and always have been, we take quite a point of pride at that. I just hope that you all can blend in and merge to be apart of our close-yet-sometimes-voiltile community as seamlessly and kindly as possible.

As far as "Don't join a shell with close-knit leadership":

You'll find a lot of that here, too. Before its downfall I was leadership in an endgame shell where leadership basically knew everyone else in leadership (and some membership) for (in some cases 6) but 3 years + on average. It was a fantastic shell and I think we were better for it, for knowing eachother so long. Were there any issues or drama we were more inclined to complain at one another or involving leadership and then make up the next day even if tempers flared. It's what family does, and you always want to try to make your linkshell family, because they're who you work with every day. You should've taken off as soon as you found out the dude was just looking to upgrade his inventory and should it help anyone else along the way "Well, ok then". A shellleader with the devil-may-care attitude about those that are assisting them in what ever they're doing for what ever the reason, is a bad shellleader. You should always care about who you work with. I'm not saying I have a close, personal relationship with everyone in my dynamis shell but I know enough to care about them and to talk to them each in turn when the occasion arrises, each of us in leadership does. Anyone that gets offended by an emote like ">.>" would not do well in quite a few places, lol, especially any linkshell I've ever been apart of. At that point those people were just looking for an excuse to railroad you out of there.

That's all I really have to say for now, I'm sorry you had to go through an experience like that though. The rest of you, I hope you understand why some people will be so adamant about addressing only the botting issue and please be patient with it, as it really is a problem here. Experimentation because of curiosity still doesn't make it right.
 
Morwen said:
The rest of you, I hope you understand why some people will be so adamant about addressing only the botting issue and please be patient with it, as it really is a problem here. Experimentation because of curiosity still doesn't make it right.
Click to expand...

I do understand why people get upset. I understand that botting is a problem, and I wholeheartedly agree with that. But I got news for you, it's not just your server where it's running rampant and causing no end of grief for lots of players, it's everywhere. And yes, knowing what was on Midgard, I'm sure we brought a lot of new "botting-scum" to your server in the merge, and I'd apologize for that if I had had any means of preventing it. On Midgard, we just learned to deal with it, and accept it. That doesn't mean we don't still hate it. I'm sure Ghost himself has had run-in's with someone that botted screwing him out of something because they were cheating. Just about everyone has at one point or another.

But I'm also not going to defend or condone Ghost's choice to purchase that bot. What I do have a problem with, is people that automatically group someone like Ghost in with people like the shell leaders of huge botting HNMLSes. While both can technically be accused of "botting", there's an enormous world of difference between the two, and their ultimate impact on the game and your server. The latter is the epitome of everything that is wrong with botting, and why people like you and I hate it. The former is a guy that did nothing to harm, cheat, or in any way even affect anyone else that plays the game, outside of Tristam's possible argument that by simply playing money for it, he "supported the cause", which, IMO, is a pretty weak argument, even if it does hold some shred of validity.

Automatically condemning someone like Ghost, and claiming that "due to his actions, he forfeits all rights to complain about anything", is (and forgive the real-life equivalent argument here, I hate when people use them too) similar to grouping that one guy in school that smoked pot once in with the hopelessly-addicted life-time crack-whores that bring deformed babies into the world. Yeah, they are both drug-users. No, they aren't the same thing, even if they do buy their shit from the same guy.
 
Our servers practically zero-tollerance policy, I think, is best. If you shun the users, in theory, it will keep others from attempting to use. A botter is a botter, no matter what way you swing it. Those operations cost a lot of coin and if you throw money at it you're just helping it grow, even if you're only trying to "see what all the hype is about"; its not like they're going to get a refund.
 
The problem with your policy is that it's ineffective, and only serves to hurt people that don't deserve it, while doing nothing to prevent the people that do deserve it from using bots. The type of people that are going to bot in a way that causes problems are going to do it regardless of what you or anyone else thinks.

But now let me present a different argument. I doubt this is even possible, but let's think hypothetically here. What if, say, by downloading and installing and using the bot, Ghost managed to find a way to counteract it? Ghost finds a way to make an "anti-bot" program. It doesn't give the user any kind of unfair advantage, it just prevents others from being able to do it. For example, just like the guy who hacked into their system to retrieve the list of users, perhaps Ghost figured out how to hack into the system and render all the bots broken. But to do that, he had to first pay for, download, and use the bot. Would he still be held in as high contempt? Or would your "zero-tolerance" policy be negated, because the ends justified the means?

I'd also just like to say that I never would have expected to be on a messageboard DEFENDING a bot user. But I guess it's different when you know the person, and realize that you can't easily just lump him in with the people you've hated for so long.
 
If he's looking for security holes in hacks and ways to counteract them, then he should be working for Squeenix as a developer or security analyst, not as a normal player.
 
Yeah, because it's real easy to just walk into SE's office and be like, "Hey, give me a job."

You and I both know that (like many problems in this world) if the bot problem is ever going to be fixed, it's going to be fixed by the same underhanded methods that created it.
 
Divinius said:
Yeah, because it's real easy to just walk into SE's office and be like, "Hey, give me a job."

You and I both know that (like many problems in this world) if the bot problem is ever going to be fixed, it's going to be fixed by the same underhanded methods that created it.
Click to expand...

@ Point 1: No more difficult than it is to get a job at any other company.

@ Point 2: Possibly, but I don't think that policemen get hired because they go for vigilante undercover work...
 
Regardless, you are missing the point. Would you still condemn him if he acted as a vigilante?
 
Divinius said:
Regardless, you are missing the point. Would you still condemn him if he acted as a vigilante?
Click to expand...

Less than I would if he were malicious, for sure. But I think at this point there's a lot of grasping at proverbial straws in the matter, so I don't really have much to say.
 
All I want is a hack that'll let me one-way PVP people that I know are botting. That might just be one I'd actually lay aside my zero tolerance policy and fork out some cash for :P
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top