Nuevo corselette, the end of Haubergeon+1

There is a trend recently where sams are willing to give up on haste for dex which i really dont understand. using hachiryu gloves is really bad imo. Using askar gloves isn't as bad, but sams should really use dusk only. head is arguable ( askar vs turban).

For info, if you give up those 4% haste, then you go from 55% haste to 51% haste you lose 9% dmg ( 0.45/0.49=0.91), I really dont think 15 dex will make up for it, especially considering it's only enhancing your melee dmg, which is 1/3 of your total dmg, unlike haste, which enhances both melee and ws.


That and the fact is very easy to get a decent dex build without askar head, hands or hachiryu hands, make turban + dusk gloves better imo. If you are not afraid to look at super expensive gear check my set up on ffxiah: it gives me 407 accuracy ( cap on colibris) and 113 dex ( cap also on coliris), without use of askar head hands or hachiryu. Now if you don't have money use lightning bow +1, dex+5 ring, dex merit, for the same effect.

edit: link is http://www.ffxiah.com/item_sets.php?id=57041

I'll agree with the turban and dusk gloves over askar and hachiryu, lot of haste give up for crit rate. (askar head more acceptable when acc is needed but almost nothing needs this much acc, I'd recomend switch to hedgehog pie/pizza before switching out dusk hands)

about the sword strap+nuevo vs pole grip+hauby+1 both with usu feet just did some ballpark estimates on your set up, sword strap should give ~1 extra ws worth of tp after ~74 ws's worth of melee with pole grip (ignoring meditate I calculated amount of rounds for a good amount of haste, hasso march haste 21% gear haste, with and without sword strap factored in, then counted double attack with and without pole grip, assumed /war to give pole grip a disadvantage, just made life easy and said 100% acc. solved for how much time it would take to have 5 more total attacks) If I had chosen less haste sword strap should have benefitted.

after 74 ws's pole strap should give you 1-2 extra double attack on ws compared to sword strap to counteract the ws damage leaving the 5 extra melee attacks so the question becomes if 370 attacks with more attack(and maybe better ws gear?) can do better than 375 attacks with a bit less attack. if you are below acc cap I have no doubt in my mind hauby with pole grip will beat new body with sword strap, in capped situations it should be close enough that I doubt you will be able to prove it either way and will depend on mob, buffs, sub, ect.

DEATH TO SWORD STRAP!

(you are welcome to more formally run all the numbers but I'm hungry gonna go eat.)
 
its just eyballing, I dit a full calculation once, taking all variables into account, to convince myself and turns out sword was a (less than 1%) increase. you can do another eyballing by saying this:

moving from no grip to sword strap is a straight 3.1% increase to melee and WS damage, provided it doesn't break your 6-hit. ( because 1/0.97=1.031).

Now what about pole grip? Moving from 15% DA to 17% DA ( assuming caped accuracy..) is 1.7% increase to melee dmg (1.17/1.15=1.017). Remember it's eyballing lol. What about WS? 2% DA can proc on WS, a DA'd gekko does 53% more dmg ( 2.875/1.875=1.53). So your gekko is boosted by 53% about 1/50 of the time, so each ws is boosted on average by 1%. Now DA makes you get TP a bit faster. Assuming caped accuracy also, since TP gain is proportional to the number of hits /minutes, you'll also get TP about 1.7% faster, so your total ws damage will get 1.7% more boosts from double attacks.

total: melee bosted by 1.7%, WS boosted by 2.7%.... now it's all about wether the stats you're giving up from moving to one body to the other will fill this gap. Not easy to answer, so i'll never say a guy with HQ hauby + pole grip is a gimp obviously. But i believe from those numbers that the sword strap set up wins slightly. just think about it and try to see if +12 attack -3 accuracy can fill this gap ( assuming you move from hauby+1 to usukane).


Now, consider that the usukane body (or nuevo, with inferior stats) is the best TP and ws body for polearms: it gives a whoping +18 acc, and 6 stp, which upgrades your current polearm build from 6-hit, to a 5-hit build, or in another words, it gives a freaking 20% haste...
 
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I also noticed PCC's getting lower priced too at AH is there no need for the acc it gives now or simply a lot of sucess in that bcnm lately?
 
Actually hauby and pcc had price inflation and you're seeing them decrease now.
Sometime after the augment announcement came out the prices rose.
Now that we know you cant augment them the price are falling to normal.
 
Just looking at some possible gear sets here for an average to slightly above averagely equiped people.

All of these assume full STP merits and GKT merits, as well as augments on the body are +10 ACC +4 STP/SB, war sub and pizza +1.

I'll let you all draw your own conclusions from this but this is what I would use for my various TP/WS situations with and without NC+augments.

TP with NC
http://ffxigear.com/?ref=2442
WS with NC set (not actually WSing in it)
http://ffxigear.com/?ref=2444 (you may use the gorget of your choice here obviously)
TP in hauby+1
http://ffxigear.com/?ref=2446
WS in hauby+1 set
http://ffxigear.com/?ref=2448

There are better pieces fore a lot of those slots, and I REALLY should have made the GKT a hagun, but its too late for that now lol. Most the gear is just based off what I have, and samurais not my main job so I think I did a pretty fair job. feel free to comment, but keep it civil folks.

Edit: I should also say I'm a 75 ranger so thats why i have amemet+1 over the others, and the next mantle I get is going to be Cuchulain's Mantle
 
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Because that way they get 5 more atk or something silly like that.
 
Honestly I don't use any hachiman on my samurai so I didn't really look at that. lol

Edit: Id still use the feet since Id have about 5 more attack most the time.
 
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Just a question, why do a lot of sams choose dusk gloves/Hachi shoes over Hachi hands/fumas
Like Khajit said, it's for the extra attack that dusk gloves provides; that and you don't need the massive amount of store TP on hachiman hands unless you have incomplete store TP merits. You could also argue that it'd be easier to sell off the hachiman feet than to buy dusk hands if/when you get usukane feet. It's not that much better, but it's just the general setup because it offers a slight benefit over hachiman hands/fumas.
 
In retrospect it coudl aso be invo+1.
You're going to keep the hachiman feet on ws generally so why buy an extra piece?
 
rutters are actually better if you don't need the store tp ( for ws).
 
The problem with people using DEX setups is that they base their gear choice on eyeballing. The tests of dex's impact on crit rates are not very deep. It seems accepted atm that the crit rate from dex caps at 20% when you have mobAGI+50. Also seems accepted that dex has an exponential impact on crit rates, meaning that using +5 dex when your base dex is low, does absolutly nothing, but using +5 dex when your base dex is close to 40 above mobAGI, it has a huge impact. Meaning you're aiming at 110+ dex before starting thinking about dex setups.

Now, I won't take a guy aiming for a dex build seriously if he didn't merit DEX in the first place. And most people merit STR ( me too).


Let's admit the above (I personally think it's true). DEX is a good way to improve your melee dmg. A crit does on average 1.7 times a normal melee hit for Gkatana (MMJ camp). DEX also has an impact on your hit rate ( 1 dex= 0.75 acc, 2 ACC=1% hit rate) and hence on your attack speed and WS speed.

So if the accuracy you get from that dex is worth trading for the amount of haste you lose, then go for it. So far none of the DEX setup people showed was worth trading imo, except the askar head probably, in a single march situation. Double march ( or 90%+ acc) and turban definately wins ( reason: for a 85% base hit rate, at 55% haste, 1% haste loss is worth trading for 3.77 acc, while at 64% haste it's worth trading for 4.7 acc, and with SV marches, 80% haste, 1% haste is worth trading for 8 acc.)

Keep in mind that the crit% part of DEX only enhances your melee dmg, while the acc part enhances both. str will only enhance melee. Also remember that a SAM/WAR does 33% melee dmg and 66% WS dmg ( supposedly; it as always been 45%/55% for me, but I've never merited as /war).



Considering the above data people can make their own computations to see if things are worth trading. I'll admit that askar head will be better for this 85% acc situation, but certainly not for higher acc. setups, and a fully merited SAM will not have any trouble caping accuracy on colibris, and will get almost cap on all MMJ camps except lurker ( see parse below).

For more data look at my last meripo party, which lasted for 3.5 hours and 9 merits, with a decent data sample.

SAM-parse.jpg

This pt was done at the jade sepulture camp. 89% accuracy.. and I have only 4/8 merits in Gkatana, a fully merited one will almost cap on everything but the lurker. The BRD was using a madrigal on the lurker btw ( and yet still only 75% acc).

I'm using this gear:http://www.ffxiah.com/item_sets.php?id=57041

for TP. It gives me a very high dex already ( 114 as sam/nin). 114 DEX gave me 13% crit hit rate, which is very far from the expected increase in critt% from this dex. If you look at the break down by mob,

MMJ busterer: 11.8% crit.
MMJ ninja : 9.7%
MMJ THF : 9.15%
MMJ philosopher: 7.4%
MMJ drg: 9.6%
MMJ wyvern: 8.3%
Puk: 22.3%
Skoffin: 14%

As you see, with this very high dex already (114!) I'm far from the cap of 24% crit rate that is expected ( 20%+4% from merits)... only get it on puks, hardly. Supposedly 114dex is enough to cap crits on the mages MMJ which isn't the case in my parse... and its a 3h long pt.

I'm gonna continue doing tests though, as I'm very interested in knowing how a dex setup can increase my melee... Next time I'll try out with my full dex setup, which is the above setup, but replacing the typhia sting by lighting bow+1 ( dex+3) and the HQ sniper by Iota ring ( acc+3 dex+3). I'll lose no haste, only one acc, but dex +6 dex for a total of 120...
 
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I guess It proves dex build is shit. Here is what I do at the MMj camp from Tanjaniya islet (monk and no destroyers)

mmjspn.jpg


10.41%, with 85 dex, so you are gaining .. 2.5% and that camp has no puk, so you're gaining even less, like 2%? 2% crit for 30 dex.. 4 accuracy is better.
 
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I'm gonna add also that the war in my parse was using askar head, body, hands... and still got 10% crit% only.

I think a dex build is still worth for colibris camps still. probably not for anything stronger.
 
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Like Khajit said, it's for the extra attack that dusk gloves provides; that and you don't need the massive amount of store TP on hachiman hands unless you have incomplete store TP merits. You could also argue that it'd be easier to sell off the hachiman feet than to buy dusk hands if/when you get usukane feet. It's not that much better, but it's just the general setup because it offers a slight benefit over hachiman hands/fumas.

You guys do know Hachiman Kote provides +10 attack prior to 100% tp and for ws right...., dusk gives 5
 
good info mdk. would like to see some parses on mobs other then mamools and birds thou, cuz everyone seems to think thats where the train stops.

using the phrase "more haste lets you kill the mob quicker = more exp" is just a excuse for people i think. unless you brd is a perfect puller and is sleeping the mob directly in front of your auto-attack. +1-3% haste w/e in a merit situation is only going to help you beat the next guy in landing the final blow on the mob by what, millaseconds? where as crits are instant gratification.

/fuel to the fire



You guys do know Hachiman Kote provides +10 attack prior to 100% tp and for ws right...., dusk gives 5

Other way around, TP > 100%. Only active for ws under the first 2 ws of 2hr and sekk. if you remain 100%+
 
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using the phrase "more haste lets you kill the mob quicker = more exp" is just a excuse for people i think. unless you brd is a perfect puller and is sleeping the mob directly in front of your auto-attack. +1-3% haste w/e in a merit situation is only going to help you beat the next guy in landing the final blow on the mob by what, millaseconds? where as crits are instant gratification.

I don't understand what you mean, and its the same as bajaratt says and makes no sense.

Hit the pause button after each mob... its not like your TP were reset after each mob and had to start over again and again. Or imagine that you are fighting a mob with infinite HP, that gives you 200 exp each time you do 5k dmg ( that's basically what a merit pt is).

The reason people test on merits mobs is because its a perfect set up for melee, thats where melee shine (non retarded evasion, non retarded def mobs). That and the brid camps became kind of a reference due to having only one type of mob w/r to mmj camp.
 

Ewwww, why do WARs use King's Justice outside of Mighty Strikes.../godkillsababy

And damn, that NIN kept up pretty well...if he was first voking then he clearly out worked the other two DDs. And I don't see a need to use Cuch Mantle. Since when did melees ever cap acc at mamool camp when you are pulling puks? Its just not possible with flash, I always parsed lower not due to mamools, but because of inevitable Puks.

Interested to see what you conclude with crits though. All the "theories" have been utter failures so far and no one seems to be able to accurately gauge what your crit rate should be.
 
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Ah my bad, i read that wrong then, your right.
 
I don't understand what you mean, and its the same as bajaratt says and makes no sense.
The only people who are unable to understand are you and pchan; everyone else seems to understand it just fine. Hell, you even agreed with my position(agreeing that more accuracy was better than 1% more haste in ace/askar vs turban) before the mods deleted the posts; so why you can't understand is beyond me.

So again(100th time, go!): an incredibly small increase in haste(1%) is meaningless, just like 1 STR, or 1 accuracy. You hit slightly faster, but it doesn't give you any additional attack rounds, so it doesn't contribute to your damage output or your TP gain. The fact that you swing faster is irrelevant to the amount of time it takes to kill the mob, because it'd still die at the same time. With that extra haste, you'd be 17% of the way to your next swing as opposed to 15% away; it doesn't matter because you're still not swinging.
 
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