Oils & Powders... why don't people have them?

Aeron said:
Damius, this isn't directed only to you, but to everyone who once told anyone this reason. I'm just writing it here cause you brought up that excuse.

I love these answers ... MY SNEAK WORE OFF FAST

Please correct me if i'm wrong, but you have 3 warnings before it wears off. I've been playing this game for over a year now, and i have NEVER found myself in a situation where i didn't have enough time to hide before the 3rd warning. So please, everyone, stop with these "Sneak wore off too fast" or "I didn't have time to recast" or "I didn't see it wear off". You get 3 warnings, and they're written in red!!!!! How the hell can you miss that!
I mean, come on, seriously. Just admit it, you didn't do shit to hide before the 3rd warning...

And i agree, if you don't have Sneak and Invis spells, Bring your damn oils and powders!! Yes they're expensive, yes it's a pain to buy, but hey that's how it is! I'm lucky, i don't need to buy them as BLM except for special occasions (which is why i always keep some on me), but trust me that when i play PLD, i ALWAYS have them.
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Actually I have the answer for you. The reason it wore off to fast for me to recast was because I was in map mode looking for the PLD to Tractor. I saw the messages but had to stay in map mode to figure out where the PLD was since they didnt either know <pos> or just didnt post it. By the time the third message rolled up I was too late and yes that was my fault I dont blame that on anyone but me but, I didn't rely on anyone else to save me. I knew what I was doing. Is there anything else you need answered?
 
Direwolf said:
Bajaratt said:
CubsWoo said:
There are two camps for this argument:

1) The people who believe that because mages get Sneak and Invis in spell form, they are obligated to babysit everyone through an aggro-rich zone.

2) Sane people.
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It gets awfully lonely in the second camps sometimes.
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I think the second camp is only the mages...
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::raises hand::

Mostly melee jobs here, been carrying sneaks and invis items since lvl 50 .. when you need to .. been saying for a long time to alot of people "if yer not carryin those items past 50, yer a tard and deserve that mob in yer face :P"

Knowing damn well that a mages sneak and invis lasts just until you get in a bad spot then wears just to make you look silly, why not just take those and spare yourself the drama.
 
Ok Semi- knew what I was doing. I got killed so I didnt know so well but, thats besides the point. I just wanted to clarify that I had my stuff with me and I'm done. Here is the problem and a lot of you have shown it.

Here is what I am getting from everyone here.

1 It is melee's responsibility to have powders and oils its not my problem ,from the mages.

2. It is the mages responsibility to keep sneak on me and invis to keep me safe, from the melee's.

Which is a horribel attitude all around. In game I had the best thing happen. I started using oils on myself and powders when the Mage messaged me and said "save your powders and oils I can get you there".

Now thats team work the rest of you sound like a bunch of politicians everyone wants a word but no one wants to take blame.
 
I will throw a free sneak and invis when we start moving through aggro zones. After that, its your own responsibility to take care of your sneak and invis getting to camp because no one ever stays together on the way to camp.
 
Damiuss said:
I started using oils on myself and powders when the Mage messaged me and said "save your powders and oils I can get you there".
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I have had this happen a few times where a mage tells me not to use oils, I think this is because they actually like the job they are playing. I think mages that don't like to sneak/invis people have had bad experiences in the past from players that have gotten them killed. I've seen mages try to save players when sneak/invis wears and they catch aggro and the Melee crys and bitches about how bad the mage is that they couldn't save them or themselves.
 
Demonomania said:
Damiuss said:
I started using oils on myself and powders when the Mage messaged me and said "save your powders and oils I can get you there".
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I have had this happen a few times where a mage tells me not to use oils, I think this is because they actually like the job they are playing. I think mages that don't like to sneak/invis people have had bad experiences in the past from players that have gotten them killed. I've seen mages try to save players when sneak/invis wears and they catch aggro and the Melee crys and bitches about how bad the mage is that they couldn't save them or themselves.
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I love my whm job, but that doesn't mean that I'm supposed to hold someone's hand through one or more zones of aggro just to get to camp. I haven't died that much due to others not having sneak/invis, but that's usually because if it's dangerous I just tell them to die in a safe spot so I can raise. I've tried to save them before, but if they're putting me in danger because of their stupidity, I'm only going to help by raising. That's also partially because as a whm, I can give out R3's to people, but if my reraise 3 is down, or at levels where I had a low level reraise(56-59), I was out a lot of exp if I died. Everyone else would get at least a Raise 2, but I'd have to eat a Raise 1 because of someone else's stupidity. <No thanks>

I'll give out a free sneak/invis at the start, and more if they're next to me and it's safe. I'm not anyone's servant, so if they're far away, they're using an item.

I've been carrying both powders and oils on BOTH my mage and melee jobs since I was 30 on my first job. I've had problems with money before like everyone else, but I have always had those items. There's nothing wrong with expecting people to get stuff they need to have, especially when it's so easy to get.
 
Damiuss said:
Ok Semi- knew what I was doing. I got killed so I didnt know so well but, thats besides the point. I just wanted to clarify that I had my stuff with me and I'm done. Here is the problem and a lot of you have shown it.

Here is what I am getting from everyone here.

1 It is melee's responsibility to have powders and oils its not my problem ,from the mages.

2. It is the mages responsibility to keep sneak on me and invis to keep me safe, from the melee's.

Which is a horribel attitude all around. In game I had the best thing happen. I started using oils on myself and powders when the Mage messaged me and said "save your powders and oils I can get you there".

Now thats team work the rest of you sound like a bunch of politicians everyone wants a word but no one wants to take blame.
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Not true, I think you need to reread what the people with higher jobs are saying. They are saying (myself included), EVERYONE needs to keep oils, powders and in certain melee jobs and especially mage jobs echo drops on them at all times.

They are also saying to whoever is concerned, if you think you're spending too much gil to buy these essentials, then don't xp, do quests, missions, etc. Farm the crap and then continue on.
 
I think you know better, Kat. The only important thing is to get to 75, and who cares if you have to put a few dozen mages in danger along the way because an extra 30k just isn't in your schedule!
 
Psuedo-edit: And there aren't too many locations where you need more than 2 powders/oils to get to where you need to be.

Post-30 general spots:

Garlaige: MAYBE 1 powder if you're upstairs (B. Gate camp), 1 oil/powder if you're going to the basement.

Crawler's: 1 oil for Secret Room, add 1 powder and possibly 1 more oil for Rumble/Beetle room.

Western/Eastern Altepa: 2 oils to get to Rabao.

Quicksand Caves: Generally none, may need 1 oil to camp behind the pressure door in W. Altepa's XP area.

Kuftal: 1 oil if you're going to the Terrigan camp. 2 oils + 1-2 powders if you're going to the raptor/tiger/ladon camps.

Boyhada: None for spiders or crabs. 1-2 oils if you're going to xp on Processionaries/Steelshells/Goobbues etc.

Gustav: 1 oil and 1 powder, possibly none if you get the southernmost camp.

KRT: None if you're camping the tomb zone, 1-2 oils if you're going for bones.

Cape Terrigan/VoS: 1 oil for Kuftal, 1-2 oils/powders for Terrigan.

Upper Delkfutt's: 1 oil/powder.

Onzozo: 1-2 oils/powders.

Bibiki: None.

Den of Rancor: 1 oil + 2 powders for the Cloister camp, none for the Tormentor camp.

Sky: 1 oil for Ro'Maeve, 1-3 oils for whatever camp you choose.
 
My usual procedure is that your first sneak/invis is on me. Anything after that and you should have items. I won't remove my sneak and invis to recast if someone else's is wearing unless the coast is very clear. Your exp isn't worth my exp. If you die because you were unprepared, you deserve it, and maybe the exp loss will teach you a lesson. I'll raise you if I won't die doing so.
 
all this talk is makin me wanna make some oils now ;3 Ta-Ta~
 
CubsWoo said:
Peregrine said:
"need" to be taking a break...when all itt costs people is to stop and agree to all recast at a designated area and not run off like idiots.
:roll:
If there's only one sneaker, maybe. If there's two, you're stupid to use oils or powders. Learn some teamwork instead of making people play the game how you all play the game--alone using people.
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Wait, hold on - isn't being dependent on other people to carry you safely from one zone to another using someone else? How did taking care of your own stealth tools turn into 'using people' and using someone else for Sneak/Invis become 'teamwork?'

I'm confused.
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You just want to get to your camp the fastest and easiest way possible so you can get your xp. You think nothing of gil, so use that instead of teamwork, thought, and a little courtesy. Coordination to get people at a planned point isn't fun. Teamwork and helping others out with something that you specialize in is apparently intolerable. Put your brain into "mindless" mode, throw gil at the obstacle, and just runrunrun for the win. Grinding away repetetively at camp...not THAT's where the entertainment is. Better hurry up!

Oils and prisms LOWER the standard of play. Gil is cheap--but you're too cheap to help your peers out whenever you can? You're ALWAYS mad when people ask for a second sneak? Why? I could probably tell you the safe recast haven for almost any zone people xp in. Cancelling a sneak together so you can move together...what's wrong with that? That no one does it?

SE has given people specialties so that we depend on each other. And in doing so, they create entertainment. This game is based on cooperativity, even if cheapshot kids have turned it into a game based on inequality-compensation. You all ruin that fundamental goal of the game by lowering the bar. Just throw gil at it if it's too hard...And we all know sneaking two other people is too hard...

I carry tonkos. I carry oils. I use them if a sneak/invis goes bad. If not, I'm stopping in a safe spot and asking politely for a reapplication. Are you going to blow a jugular when I do?

If it were supposed to be this way, powders would be as cheap as an invisible spell. Mages don't make the standard, so they make meleers jump over it to compensate. That's a fact. A meleer who doesn't bring silent oils or tonkos or powders is just as wrong as a mage who runs off after "getting their own" or who whines and moans when people have the BALLS to ask for a sneak half-way through a zone.

The meleer without oils and the mage who doesn't offer or try in the least bit to help others out...yall are in the same boat called Just Plain Lazy. For the other 80% of players somewhere in between...it's a non-issue. They help when they can. They take care of themselves when they can.
 
Sorry Pere, but that is just the biggest load of bullshit I've seen in these forums for a long damn time. You know damn good and well bein' a lvl 75 thf it's hella hard to try and take care of other people while trying to get to different camps. Especially in sky. Gimme a break :roll: .
 
In sky running around doing Genbu: Yes
In sky walking all of one sneak's worth: No.

What ever happened to sneak buddies? Were they soooo 2003?
 
So, pere, i guess you split all the gold beastcoins you stole in Bibiki Bay with your pt after, since an ability that SE gave you, and we all know you are about teamwork.
 
And you'd be surprised at the looks on their faces when I did. I've given out gold before.
 
Again, I reiterate, having melee and mage jobs, I feel it's better "teamwork" and more of a courtesy to farm however and always come prepared rather than bother the mages in the party with having to worry about me on top of themselves. You will never change my mind on this fact. I've done it both ways: sneak/invis buddies and people having the essentials they need to get where they want to go. I'll let the mages relax and be prepared myself vs. them having to worry about me on top of themselves.
 
The better question is, since when does someone with the ability to steal a 18k gold beastcoin every 5 minutes = someone unable to spend 30k every 5-6 parties for oils and powders?

I suppose every time I go out I should provide the food and drinks for each member, since I can make just about anything with 97 cooking?
 
Peregrine, mages are not at your beck and call. The good people are willing to help, but that in no way excuses anyone to not bring oils/powders because "mages will do it for them." Based on what you said, if a mage doesn't want to walk across a zone, or go through magic aggro to get your ass to camp because you're too cheap to use items that everyone else has, they're "not a team player" and generally just suck. My job is a WHITE MAGE, not a babysitter.
 
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