Ok, that's it, if you want S+I, bring Powders and Oils!

[Tymon]

Oh and one more thing.. I've never seen a Flame Shield +1 before, what's the stats?

 

[Blackchaoshero]

I gree mostly with this post. you picked the job you play, you picked a job where it costs 900G to sneak yourself. too fucking bad. i'm tired of getting my ass killed on the way to a camp because all 4 melee want us to sneak them and invis them.

 

[Sethala]

Oh and one more thing.. I've never seen a Flame Shield +1 before, what's the stats?

It's a pretty nice shield, actually...

STR +1, [fire] +5, +10% resistance to "message board flames", - chance of being affected by "annoying message board posts".
lvl 54, all jobs

Might be a few other stats I'm forgetting.

 

[Kat]

Not saying the mages can't sneak or invis themselves...Just saying, it's not always the melee who are the idiots, and get aggro, and slow the whole party down. I had a party in Boyahda Tree where the Black Mage died 3 times on the way to camp.

C'mon Cythe!!! You know 9 times outa 10 it's the melee who doesn't bring along oils and powders that causes downtime and/or death. Gimme a break hun!!!! Wth are you trying to kid here?

 

[Seawolf]

This is what I hate the most -.-

Idiot #1's Sneak effect is wearing.
Idiot #1: sneak plxz
Seawolf starts casting sneak on Idiot #1. (Idiot #1 starts running)
Seawolf casts Sneak.
Seawolf's Sneak has no effect on Idiot #1.
Idiot #1: whoops again plz
Idiot #1's Sneak effect wears off.
The Robber Crab hits Idiot #1 for 250 dmg

 

[Ranpha]

Everyone has made such interesting points to this topic (Ahyumi probably has heard me rant on this in LS more than once ;p). I really enjoyed reading Jezza’s entry about the chaos of sneak and invising people. It reminded me of my fun experiences of game traveling.

There have been many parties where people just quit because they cannot get to a certain place within a time limit. If the partying goal is to be time efficient, having the mages cast sneak/invis on everyone is going to take more time to reach the desired camp. And the mages might be lagging behind due to this. For these group goals; it is recommended to grumble/complain and buy the oils and powders.

Some people are also new to areas, so running off after getting sneak/invis can be a bit rude. At least notify the person a general idea of how to get to the camp or travel in groups or pairs before leaving them in the dust. Also, make note of the less aggro areas while passing by incase sneak/invis decides to wear off. A pit of robber crabs is usually not one of those places to stand around waiting for recast.

Then again, I tend to carry powders and oils for most party situations just in case the elemental/magic aggro monster drops by or when I need fast sneak/invis. The price for the items is annoying but meh, it has been a useful investment in other situations than parties. If there are any alchemy friends present, one could always farm/buy the ingredients for them to craft those. Maybe some could even start your own alchemy enterprise. More competitors in the marketplace drive prices down lower (okay… maybe not in FFXI Auction Houses >_>).

 

[Tomasello]

I'm sorry, but until I see mages spending as much as we do on powders and oils, I have no sympathy for you having to sneak and invis your party members. You were given the spell for a reason.

If you don't want to...If it's such a hassle, don't buy the spell. Pretend you don't have it and use your own powders and oils. Then maybe you'll know how we feel.
_____
Cythe - Rank 10
Hume Male
73 Paladin

Number One: If you don't have the money for a stack of potions at post 70 but have the money for your sushi and uber gear then go farm...

Number Two: If mages are required to carry echo drops (and if you don't then your a jerk) then you can go get potions and stop bitching when your sneak/invs runs out after 30 secs into zone.

Number Three: We were given the spell for a reason... for us! My elvann MND holds sneak/invs almost as long as a potion while its just wasted on most ppl and results in unnessasary death.


P.S. These comments are not directed at you specifically Cythe they include all people who share your views.

 

[Anderithe]

The irony of this whole arguement is I've seen just as many stupid mages get aggroed as I have stupid melee.

Also, being a Thief who does carry the items with him it isn't a problem for me. I just wish the mages wouldn't be so high and mighty all the time. You going to force me to use an oil/powder if you don't have to?

Also, like the Paladin said, I will be right on your tail the whole time so unless it's an emergency where I would normally use my powder you can spare me a spell. Just turn around and hit the macro.

Thieves are experts in combat from behind don't you know. :wink:

 

[Palum_Q]

From what I've seen, and what's been posted on another board showing the 'normal' xp track, here's what I'm thinking.

Note: not MY XP track (if possible)
Normal XP Track
Lv 10-20 Valkurm Dunes - not needed
Lv 20-25 Qufim Island - not needed

Lv 25-27 Yuhtunga - Depending on where you are, but not really. You can dodge

Lv 27-32 Yhoator - How the hell do you plan to get back out? without getting aggro?

Lv 32-37 Garlaige Citadel - You pretty much camp at the zone.
Lv 36-55 Crawler's Nest - At this level, how do you afford your equipment? you can afford the oils/powder.

After these levels, I think you know enough to make money to get the powders. Really, you don't need powders/oils if you're doing the regular xp until you reach 27. By then, you should have enough money to buy the stuff.

Now with all that said, this is only if don't have mages who want to stick out their necks to help you. Correction, mostlly whm and rdms since blms, smn, brds can't really help you until 42-ish.

I'm all for helping people get to the camp. But I've seen all too much....

"f@ckin noob, why did you get aggro too? You just had to avoid the mobs to get to him." And this is directed TO the whm/rdm helping them out. You shouldn't force the whm/rdm to go if they don't know their way.

 

[Celvantes]

Depends.

If you're going on a mission and the tanks are already throwing away 30k+ for their consumables so that they have a reasonable chance of surviving, *cough* Riverne *cough* help them out and take care of their sneak/invis ESPECIALLY if it's just one or the other. This goes doubly for NINs (and RNG) since they're already throwing gil at the enemy.

If it's an EXP party and there's more than one mage that can sneak/invis, split the pty in half and move everyone that way. If you only have one mage, yeah, people are going to need to bring their own powders and oils.

The way I see it, this game is expensive enough gil-wise. If you can help somone else save money, do it.

If you've got an issue with using sneak/invis, just /tell "you know, I don't want to risk dying due to aggro," or "I'm sorry, I can't sneak/invis this many at once," and make sure the pty knows that before they leave the viscinity of an AH. Don't scream in party chat "I'M NOT YOUR DAMNED SNEAK/INVIS WHORE!!!" when you're halfway to your destination.

 

[Celvantes]

Depends.

If you're going on a mission and the tanks are already throwing away 30k+ for their consumables so that they have a reasonable chance of surviving, *cough* Riverne *cough* help them out and take care of their sneak/invis ESPECIALLY if it's just one or the other. This goes doubly for NINs (and RNG) since they're already throwing gil at the enemy.

If it's an EXP party and there's more than one mage that can sneak/invis, split the pty in half and move everyone that way. If you only have one mage, yeah, people are going to need to bring their own powders and oils.

The way I see it, this game is expensive enough gil-wise. If you can help somone else save money, do it.

If you've got an issue with using sneak/invis, just /tell "you know, I don't want to risk dying due to aggro," or "I'm sorry, I can't sneak/invis this many at once," and make sure the pty knows that before they leave the vicinity of an AH. Don't scream in party chat "I'M NOT YOUR DAMNED SNEAK/INVIS WHORE!!!" when you're halfway to your destination.

 

[ArmachiA]

UGh, I remember it taking about 2 hours to get to camp in Crawler's just because of the Sneak/Invis problem. Honestly it's a lot more convientant... and you don't have to buy a stack everytime you go.. I mean that can run you 8k each time you pt... one sneak oil costs around 700 gil... so just buy 4 and you should be fine... whats that? 2.8k? That's not a lot... invis powders same deal, so instead of paying 16k, you're paying 5.6k for 4 sneak oils and 4 powders. 4 should do the trick most of the time (Unless your trying to get to Cape Terrigan.. blarg). I keep about 3 or 4 sneak oils on hand just incase and it doesn't really run me that much (and trust me I'm poor, I've never seen more then 170k at any given time )

Always Be Prepared, the mage can't always save you, hell they can't always save themselves.

 

[Blackchaoshero]

let me put it this way. i picked 2 jobs, my main and my sub. these two jobs are not very good farming jobs. they are slow farming jobs. they are slow gil making jobs. undeniably said right there. you have to go for high drop value low mob number to be sucessful farming as a blm or whm. Rams, Elementals, whatever.
I have a perk to my job, i can sneak and invisible myself. that's great. you have perks to your melee jobs, you can farm things. farm up 10k and fucking cover your own ass. when i lose my invis caus i had to cast it on you in a bad place I'M the one with low VIT, I'M the one with low DEF and I'M THE ONE THAT GETS KILLED BECAUSE I HAD TO RECAST IT ON PEOPLE WHO CAN'T FIGURE OUT HOW THEIR JOB IS SUPPOSED TO GET IT DONE. Seawolf had it smack dab on. hearken ye dumb melee classes, hearken to the wisdom of those who know the spell so well. SNEAK MUST WEAR OFF COMPLETELY BEFORE I CAN RECAST IT!

you can do 25 gobbue gardeners in a row. i can do about 3. you buy your own fucking oils.

 

[Kat]

UGh, I remember it taking about 2 hours to get to camp in Crawler's just because of the Sneak/Invis problem. Honestly it's a lot more convientant... and you don't have to buy a stack everytime you go.. I mean that can run you 8k each time you pt... one sneak oil costs around 700 gil... so just buy 4 and you should be fine... whats that? 2.8k? That's not a lot... invis powders same deal, so instead of paying 16k, you're paying 5.6k for 4 sneak oils and 4 powders. 4 should do the trick most of the time (Unless your trying to get to Cape Terrigan.. blarg). I keep about 3 or 4 sneak oils on hand just incase and it doesn't really run me that much (and trust me I'm poor, I've never seen more then 170k at any given time )

Always Be Prepared, the mage can't always save you, hell they can't always save themselves.

I have on me RIGHT now (and I'm a MAGE mind you) 14 echo drops, 20 powders and 21 oils. What the hell is your excuse again? I really don't wanna hear it. Buy the meds. That is all.

 

[Kat]

I was agreeing with the above quote. I hit submit too quick to bold out his last sentence.

 

[Panda]

SNEAK MUST WEAR OFF COMPLETELY BEFORE I CAN RECAST IT!

yeah, well you can also kill it.. so.. uh

 

[Cythe]

C'mon Cythe!!! You know 9 times outa 10 it's the melee who doesn't bring along oils and powders that causes downtime and/or death. Gimme a break hun!!!! Wth are you trying to kid here?

Oh don't get me wrong Kat. I know it's the melee who always forget powders and oils, since most times mages don't even NEED them. My point is that even with the spell, I've known mages to be the ones to make getting to camp hell. I wasted like 6 oils once because one idiot mage in our party kept getting aggro'd. Not to say it's always the mages, but it sure isn't always the melee either. All the stories here are saying "OMG teh stoopid DRK made us takez 4 hourz to get to campx0r!!!11!!!" Please. Dunno anyone at these boards that has been a dumbass mage, but I've seen plenty. So don't tell me it's ALWAYS the melee and their lack of items causing the long run to camp.

Number One: If you don't have the money for a stack of potions at post 70 but have the money for your sushi and uber gear then go farm...

Number Two: If mages are required to carry echo drops (and if you don't then your a jerk) then you can go get potions and stop bitching when your sneak/invs runs out after 30 secs into zone.

Number Three: We were given the spell for a reason... for us! My elvann MND holds sneak/invs almost as long as a potion while its just wasted on most ppl and results in unnessasary death.


P.S. These comments are not directed at you specifically Cythe they include all people who share your views.

Ok I once again repeat, as you probably didn't read my earlier posts following that...While I have no sympathy, I am not an offender. I carry my oils and powders at all times(Spare the occasions I run out and forget to restock) so that I don't have to worry about someone else carrying my ass. That doesn't change the fact that I think the mages should do their best to keep their melee's sneak and invis up. Ok, when you've got one mage to 5 people, it's a little different, but that's rarely the case.

I do carry echo drops, and as someone who uses both powders & oils, as well as echo drops, I can tell you that those items should not be compared. Unless you commonly level against Goobbue and Antican, you will not be going through half a stack of Echo drops in one party every party.

And if you were given the spell just for you, I suppose I should only spend my MP curing myself, correct? RDM should only Refresh themselves as well in that case. Aquaveil is a spell for you. Blink is a spell for you. But face it...You can cast Sneak and Invis on your party members. It was meant to be a spell that is used to benefit the entire party. Saving your melee a few thousand gil definately falls under that category.

 

[Blackchaoshero]

SNEAK MUST WEAR OFF COMPLETELY BEFORE I CAN RECAST IT!

yeah, well you can also kill it.. so.. uh

aye, and when you kill it it wears off. that's what it says.
<insert name here>'s sneak effect wore off. it can't be recast until the magic words magically appear on the screen.

 

[Palum_Q]

The smart people will give me a warning when it's starting to wear off the first time (since you get three warnings before it's completely off). I'll start casting and then they'll cancel it about half way I'm casting it (maybe under hafl) so there's almost no break in sneak effect.. however... that's only people who know how the sneak spell actually works.

 

[Braydon]

First off, Vang, I agreed with you completly until you called out Paladins
I bust my ass keeping well equipt and I try and carry at least a stack of oil, powder and echo drops. I know some pallys call it in, but I bust my ass keeping yours alive. Every job has idiots.

Secondly, anyone who doesn't carry oils and powders needs to get off their ass, and deserves to die if they get aggro.
They will learn a valuable lesson- Carry oils and powders. Be responsible for your own safety.