Pirates 3! (Spoilers, says I)

[Halifirien]

As far as the ships not being able to move or get around the maelstrom, once again my point is if you're not going to do the fight don't set it up.

Agreed. It's one of the rules: If you're going to fire the gun in Act Three, it'd better be displayed on the mantle in Act One. If you show the gun in Act One, someone had better fire it in Act Three. They literally did that in Shaun of the Dead, ha-ha.

 

[mugenteg]

I was not able to enjoy the movie, some stupid kid kepted pulling the fire alarm and made the movie stop 4 times. From what I was able to see it was decent, way better then the 2nd film.


BTW: My self and tons of other people got a refund that night.

 

[Tok]

I was not able to enjoy the movie, some stupid kid kepted pulling the fire alarm and made the movie stop 4 times. From what I was able to see it was decent, way better then the 2nd film.


BTW: My self and tons of other people got a refund that night.

a fuck that shit i would smashed that kids head into a wall

 

[Anttaru]

I have every right to say the things I personally didn't like about the movie, I didn't even say it was bad, I just said why I didn't like the end, and how I thought it could have been better. And I'm not the only on who had problems with it.

And that's fine, but it dosn't make sense to debate with people who beg to differ. Just giving you a heads up on how repeating you're dislikes in a hot topic is asking for argument. This ain't Gili.

For the record i have no desire for you to take my messege to you personal. You're free to say as you please, but the least you can do is stop repeating yourself, we heard you the first time.

As far as the ships not being able to move or get around the maelstrom, once again my point is if you're not going to do the fight don't set it up. Everybody wants to keep telling me all these reasons why the fight couldn't happen realistically in a movie that's bent reality the whole trilogy.

- Calipso's storm prevented the other ships from coming near. That is Barbosa's doing. She was Barbosa's wild card he was saving for their darkest hour. He released her and plea'd for mercy and assistance, directing her anger towards the enemy. But that's not good enough for everyone i would imagine. Some will admire the pirates ways in an entertaining sense, others won't. If Calipso did not fix the battle, the pirates would be obliterated. If you play the game Risk, you'd understand why.

And that's not even my point, the fact that they did all that to set it up and didn't deliver it is. If you read I said that the ending would have been fine if they wouldn't have built the scene up the way they did, because it became a letdown for me when it didn't happen and affected my opinion of the movie.

You also never understood why the other ships never moved in for combat and why they retreated. I was simply letting you know. On a personal note i was dissapointed that Han Solo never became a Jedi. I don't let my wishful thinking obstruct me when marking a film around others who liked it.

I go back to my whole heart beating outside body, 40 foot goddess making a malestrom and blowing winds in two directions, people rocking a ship by running back and forth across deck, people coming back from the dead, etc etc, etc.

Yes, and a hand full of pirates smoking an army at sea would have been classic. If such a battle occured it would have wrecked the storyline completly, if the pirates won fighting the entire fleet, everything they done in the movie to set up this moment would have been wasteful story wise, and if the Pirates lost fighting the entire fleet, that would be even more lame.

Pirates III is an unpredictable movie, which are the best kinds of movies. Weather or not you cease to take it apart is not my concern, i was just letting you know what you didin't pick up. Is that not nice ?

 

[Aaleel]

You're still not understanding my point. You're still saying why the battle could not have happened. My point is why have the pirates come out ready to fight, have the armada grow bigger and bigger in the fog, and then they start to lean towards running. Then have Swann give this empassioned speech about fighting for freedom, that rallies the pirates and have them raise their flags like they're going give their all for their cause, and then don't do anything.

Don't have the speech, no pirates rallying and no raising flags, or any of that. Just have the movies go the way they did without building up that way, and doing nothing. That was a letdown. It has nothing to do at all with 'not getting' anything, it was just a letdown plain and simple.

And as far as not letting personal feeling come into liking a movie. Giving a critique and saying what you didn't like are two different things. Saying how the plot in general moved, unraveled, was perfect, whatever. Saying how well the actors/actresses did, or how it tied to the previous, or how good it was overall in critiquing. Saying what you didn't like is simply that, saying what you didn't like.

Like how you can't figure out why people are lambasting Transformers before it comes out. People have watched and read Transformers for years, and have been waiting to see what they loved so much for so long on the screen in this magnitude. But for example Bumblebee, one of the first if not thee first transformer you ever see, a symbol of the line, little punchbug with heart, the underdog. So you change him to a camaro or whatever, then you change someone else, and something else. At a point no matter how good the movie is, it is NO LONGER the transformers that you grew up with, it's Transformers V2, or Transformers X, but its not what you've been waiting for.

From the other perspective. I saw Eragon, never read the book, thought it was a pretty good movie. But people in the theater were outraged, butchered the book they said. So not understanding I went and read the first two books, and I could totally understand where they were coming from because they were expecting to see something, and the director didn't do justice by the book at all.

You can't take personal feelings out of the equation. I was expecting a big fight that they led me to, and they didn't do it. And that was the difference between, this was a great movie, and this was a good movie but if could have been better if...

Edit: And for the record this is what I thought I was going to see.

The leader of the British forces I forget his name was the villian for 2 movies. He was controlling Davy Jones, he was the one responsible for wiping out pirates, hangings and such. And he plays basically no role in the end of the movie other than going down with his ship.

Which is why having the pirates fight him (the one responsible for thier current circumstances) and the armada, while the flying dutchman fouught the Black pearl would have been a much better climax to the movie. Of course the british would have had the upper hand, but the defeat of the Dutchman would have turned the tide.

Which is better than what they did imo. Pirates don't beat the entire armada, but you still have the point where you think all is lost, and then good winning out in the end.

 

[Karihkinz]

I'm amazed how overprotective people can be over a movie when others voice thier opinion. Even the writers of the movie don't act like their family blood line was just spit on and kicked into the dirt when a critic gives a mediocre review.

Not everyone will agree with you, and if they dont, get the hell over it. You come to a forum to voice your view over a movie. By sticking your nose up at anyone who doesn't agree with you and treating them in a very demeaning way, you show yourself as someone who is too ignorant to see someone else's point.

The aramada should NOT of been built up to not deliver a battle, whether you want to hear that or not. Anyone who has taken even the simplest of Drama classes would know that. Never introduce something into a plot that will not come to fruitation later on. You can come up with reasons why it wasn't completed all you want (researching fanboy sites, thinking up reasons on your own, who knows who cares) but to the common viewer if its lacking from what you directly watch from the big screen, theres something wrong.

 

[Cecilee]

The movie made it pretty clear that the pirates were going to fight until the second they could run away, but actually seeing them run away on the screen would have defeated the sense of victory that they were trying to depict before the credits rolled. At the end of each movie there is always a badguy, an intact british navy, the heroes, and a new destination. No reason to change that. The british navy isn't really a badguy. They're like a foil or whatever yer English teacher calls it. Their boss was the villain thoughout the movies, not them.

The movie did a good job of leading you to the conclusions they didn't show, even if you still fault them for not showing it. The navy lost their flagship. Their commander. Big crazy maelstrom just happened. Flying undead monkeys. And the pirates explicitly stated that they would fight so that they could run away.

Would I have enjoyed a scene where Gibbs screamed "RUN AWAY!!!!" after the cheers died down? Yeah. Would people have complained still that there wasn't a battle? Yeah. :???:

 

[Novolo]

The wirlpool is what kept opposing ships engauged for battle. And the final battle was indeed action packed. Pirates and demonic sea pirates swinging around on ropes trying to have at one another. Pleanty of cannon blasts, and sorry to say, alot of dead pirates and duchies (seemingly only the chinese pirates were getting killed, that may not sit well with the chinese communities)

id hardly call them demonic, more like fuzzy bunnies

 

[Zhaoyun]

I'm amazed how overprotective people can be over a movie when others voice thier opinion. Even the writers of the movie don't act like their family blood line was just spit on and kicked into the dirt when a critic gives a mediocre review.

Not everyone will agree with you, and if they dont, get the hell over it. You come to a forum to voice your view over a movie. By sticking your nose up at anyone who doesn't agree with you and treating them in a very demeaning way, you show yourself as someone who is too ignorant to see someone else's point.

The aramada should NOT of been built up to not deliver a battle, whether you want to hear that or not. Anyone who has taken even the simplest of Drama classes would know that. Never introduce something into a plot that will not come to fruitation later on. You can come up with reasons why it wasn't completed all you want (researching fanboy sites, thinking up reasons on your own, who knows who cares) but to the common viewer if its lacking from what you directly watch from the big screen, theres something wrong.

I can understand if the directors get upset about it, they poured countless hours into it. Random people like us? Meh we just get it in our heads that "THIS IS WHAT I THINK AND I AM RIGHT DAMMIT" and when someone else doesn't have the same idea, we have to defend it.

 

[Sabia]

I'm amazed how overprotective people can be over a movie when others voice thier opinion. Even the writers of the movie don't act like their family blood line was just spit on and kicked into the dirt when a critic gives a mediocre review.

Not everyone will agree with you, and if they dont, get the hell over it. You come to a forum to voice your view over a movie. By sticking your nose up at anyone who doesn't agree with you and treating them in a very demeaning way, you show yourself as someone who is too ignorant to see someone else's point.

I don't think I'm being overprotective over this movie, just merely stating my opinion on the low reviews it got that I personally don't feel it deserved. I'm enjoying this debate, and that's all I see it as. I don't know why people can't discuss things anymore without people blowing a simple debate out of proportion. This discussion doesn't affect our day to day lives, we don't think about it or lose sleep about it outside of actually typing a response.

Fact is this is an opinion debate to boot, it's not like either side is right or wrong but both sides have the right to state said opinion and the other has the right to refute it. This'd be a pretty boring message board if we didn't, it'd be filled with PC+1s and ZOMG YOU'RE SO RIGHT!

Conflict is interesting, so just sit back and relax - if anyones getting worked up about this they should probably just drop it and walk away, personally - I'm having fun as this has been a pretty interesting conversation. So chiiiiiiillll baby

 

[Negorissimo]

I read some of the finales people posted and while I still love the movie their endings would've been better. But there really was a lot of action in the end thou.

 

[Anttaru]

You're still not understanding my point. You're still saying why the battle could not have happened.

Correction, i'm saying "exactly why" the battle never happened. And i do get you're point. The only difference is i'm speculating the artistry behind the actual script, and you are not.

My point is why have the pirates come out ready to fight, have the armada grow bigger and bigger in the fog, and then they start to lean towards running. Then have Swann give this empassioned speech about fighting for freedom, that rallies the pirates and have them raise their flags like they're going give their all for their cause, and then don't do anything.

In my perspective that's kinda under the assumption if the Armada never retreated, the pirates would have ran, seeing on how neither side was able to make contact with one another.
The movie started with the exacution of pirates, they sang with pride as they were lined up to be hung, which sounded cool might i add. That is key to the structure of the film.

In the end the pirates were at first dumbfounded to see the amount of Battleships coming for them, and they were going to run. Speech was thrown and next thing you know they were ready to go down fighting, and they were garunteed to go down at that. So as it turns out they got a break. Some pirates did die in the end. The movie is all about hustling, and the end battle was still explosive.
Not saying anyone would understand the symbolism behind the concept, some people wanted to see a trillion ships shooting cannonballs at a small number of ships with no forcefeilds. If that did happen, and the Pirates won, one would have to be really naieve to accept that. on the other hand, if the pirates got wiped off the face of the earth, then it would damage the fun factor of the film.

Don't have the speech, no pirates rallying and no raising flags, or any of that. Just have the movies go the way they did without building up that way, and doing nothing. That was a letdown. It has nothing to do at all with 'not getting' anything, it was just a letdown plain and simple.

I won't bullshit you. Seeing a giant Rasta woman of the sea gobble up the Armada would have been better, than the fleet following their directives and pulling out. One would imagine, the fleet might have been a little spooked to see Davey Jones ship rise back from the ocean depth and blow away their foolish leader, along side the Black pearl. It's a rule to surrender or retreat after the leader has been disabled, people have seperate minds, without direction and commands an army would turn savage and reckless, we're not the like Borg.

And as far as not letting personal feeling come into liking a movie. Giving a critique and saying what you didn't like are two different things. Saying how the plot in general moved, unraveled, was perfect, whatever. Saying how well the actors/actresses did, or how it tied to the previous, or how good it was overall in critiquing. Saying what you didn't like is simply that, saying what you didn't like.

No one said you can't toss in you're opinion on the movie, it sure dosn't hurt my feelings. I was just mentioning to you how we heard you. There's over 100 posts in this thread, and you keep saying the same thing over, and now what you write evolved into "I can say whatever i want, and i'm dissapointed because of what i said before" non stop. I simply said it dosn't make any sense to continue because we heard you already.

Like how you can't figure out why people are lambasting Transformers before it comes out. People have watched and read Transformers for years, and have been waiting to see what they loved so much for so long on the screen in this magnitude. But for example Bumblebee, one of the first if not thee first transformer you ever see, a symbol of the line, little punchbug with heart, the underdog. So you change him to a camaro or whatever, then you change someone else, and something else. At a point no matter how good the movie is, it is NO LONGER the transformers that you grew up with, it's Transformers V2, or Transformers X, but its not what you've been waiting for.

You kinda made me laugh for a moment there, because critisim is a lifestyle for me. What gave you the impression i could not figure out why people were upset with the Transformers movie ?

I'll say again, I myself am dissapointed with their new appearances. The kid ain't getting a Porsche and neither are we because Jazz is a freakin Pontiac Solstice.The cars arn't bad, they are just wrong. And why bring Frenzy ?

None the less, it is a live action Transformers movie, i know how to suck it up and move onto accepting the visuals put into it. And i can almost garuntee you all, the FX artists that worked on them loved Transformers and had to have been programed mentally to enjoy drawing a new face to these popular characters. I just mentioned how we'll hear alot of cries about how un-original it is.

You can't take personal feelings out of the equation. I was expecting a big fight that they led me to, and they didn't do it. And that was the difference between, this was a great movie, and this was a good movie but if could have been better if...

Edit: And for the record this is what I thought I was going to see.

Which is better than what they did imo. Pirates don't beat the entire armada, but you still have the point where you think all is lost, and then good winning out in the end.

But there was an even greater battle sequence that took place at the end of the actual film.

Ask yourself...

-If the Armada fleet attacked, would there be this "Big Fight" you were hoping for ?. Think about it.

You being a writer, you should be able to give us some outline as opposed to just saying it could have been better. So please.

 

[Novolo]

it still woulda been cool to see them have both fleets fight, but the end battle was kinda.... rushed it seemed like some of the fighting was cool but the hole marriage thing i hated :|

 

[Elemmire]

I was not able to enjoy the movie, some stupid kid kepted pulling the fire alarm and made the movie stop 4 times. From what I was able to see it was decent, way better then the 2nd film.


BTW: My self and tons of other people got a refund that night.

what happened to the kid? hope he got arrested

 

[Aaleel]

You being a writer, you should be able to give us some outline as opposed to just saying it could have been better. So please.

I might just do that, it'll be a break from the story I'm writing in the Traveler's Tavern, which you're more than welcome to critique since you enjoy it so much.

 

[mugenteg]

what happened to the kid? hope he got arrested

Not sure what happend to him. When I got my refund is when I found out why the fire alarm kept going off.

 

[Anttaru]

I don't enjoy it, i'm the criticized not the crit, so don't exspect too many remarks from me. I often do my best to avoid criticism. Not all of it is for the better, but when it does come i have to take note and make sure it really is the better way, then follow up on it. It's all about improvement, and never to be taken personal.

 

[Aaleel]

Well just thinking about it a little on how I personally would have added to it. Just three main points.

I - Davy & Calypso

After he fell overboard I would have had Calypso in the water, then either.

A) She would have just watched him fall into the darkness of the abyss.
B) She would have caught him, and returned him to his original form like in the brig. Then they would have smiled or otherwise shown some form of affection. Then the last scene I would have shown them together before I panned to Swann and Will when she was on the beach with the kid.
C) She couldn't save him, so she cried, and let him fall from her hands into the abyss.

Just to show whether all was forgiven, not forgiven, and if they ended up together or not.

II - Calypso in the battle

Having explained her sadness about her life trapped in human form, and then having the people who took that life on one side, and on the other side the person she just found out moments earlier betrayed her. I just can't see her playing it neutral like that. I'm not pretending to be an expert on woman but a woman in any time, of any age, goddess or not, would have been pissed off. I would have had her cause general mayhem on the sea, rough waters, strong winds, lightning just hitting ships at random. If I wanted to go more into fantasy the surface of the water taking the form of her face. Or her face forming on waves as the crashed through ships.

III - Last Battle

Would have been more pirate ships plain and simple. Gibbs said in Dead Man Chest, if the trade company controls the heart of Davy Jones, they control the sea and that's bad for any man call himself pirate. I would have had them find pirates in hiding and urge them to help, and of course they would have said no because it was hopeless. Then Jack or Swann could have told them they can no longer do as pirates do, run and fight another day because there was nowhere to run, they had to fight or die.

Then at the end, I would have had the Armada appearing in the distance, and the pirates feeling all hopes were lost, then in the mist in another direction more ships appear, and at first they think they're more of the armada, but they're pirates. Then Swann can give her speech, and you can pan out as the flags were raised on all these ships, and cries for freedom ringing out, parrots flying lol.

Fighting amidst all that chaos that Calypso was causing would have evened the field some, but the Armada and the flag ship would still have had the upper hand even with the extra pirate ships. But the Black pearl would defeat the Flying Dutchman, and with the storms stopping, the flagship would seek to lead his forces, along with the flying dutchman to destroy the rest of the pirates. Then it could have ended the same way it did, with the Armada retreating in the face of the Flying Dutchman, Black Pearl, and rest of the pirate ships.

That way the head of the trade company who was the villian through two movies, could show himself more the villian, with seemingly an unstoppable ship, only to be outdone in the end. Still have Jack vs. Davy Jones, Black Pearl vs. Flying Dutchman.

Hope, to fleeting hope, to despair, and finally to victory.

That's how I would have done it, doing my best to keep as much of the end the same.

Finally, I will go see the movie again to see if this was a case of having expectations too high, that nothing could reach them.

 

[Zhaoyun]

Sounds like a typical movie plot, Aaleel.

 

[Aaleel]

Well he said how would you improve, not rewrite. I tried to keep as much of the movie the same as possible. I didn't hate the movie just wanted to see more pirates, & see what happened between Davy Jones & Calypso is all.